GUILTY Posted July 19, 2004 Report Share Posted July 19, 2004 I had a few problems that have gradually progressed into something pretty serious over that last 2 weeks. I have a '93 Grand Prix SE 3.1L mpi. This is the first fuel injected and distributorless car I've owned so I'm completely lost with this thing. It started when I stopped at the store one morning on the way to work the car would not start. I called for a rescue and tried to jump it off but the battery wouldn't hold a charge. I replaced the battery that evening and headed home but on the way it stalled a few times. I noticed that the idle was rough just before the first stall out and I could see the tach jump up and down a few hundred rpm and then drop like the power was fading away. The next day I went out the crank it and got nothing but clicks from the starter solenoid. Luckily it was my day off so pulled out the starter and took it to get tested at the closest parts house. They said it was drawing too much current and needed replacing so it was replaced it. I thought I was finished NO the fun was just starting. The car did start but I noticed the the starter would wind up a couple of seconds before it cranked but I just figured it needed to be shimmed...The shim did no difference. I did managed to drive it for a few miles and get a few cranks from it but the rough idle issue was still there. I stopped to fill up with gas....of course it wouldn't start again. I had a multimeter with me so I tested the battery and it was at full charge. It did manage to turn over one very slow revolution and then to my surprise I had a backfire from underneath the plenum. I had it towed home and immediately started researching the symptoms on the net. I checked the fuses and they're fine. When it was running I didn't get any check engine light. From what I've found on the net, it all lead to possibly being a bad crank position sensor throwing the timing off. I replaced the sensor today and I'm getting the same stuff I was getting at the gas station a week ago. Very slow turnover and a backfire in the plenum. I also checked for spark from a two of the front plug wires and there's nothing. I'm at my wits end with the car. Does anyone have an idea of what the problem could be? Thanks in advance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShockTherapy Posted July 19, 2004 Report Share Posted July 19, 2004 coil packs, or maybe an icm, or your computer went nuts and took a holiday... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DiscoStudd Posted July 19, 2004 Report Share Posted July 19, 2004 Try replacing your battery cables. At their age, they more than likely need to be replaced. Check all of your ground wire connections under the hood, too. Another possible cause: you might have a mystery circuit left on somewhere that drains the battery. Check your underhood, trunk, and glovebox lights to see if they're stuck "on" when the lids are closed. If the new battery gets "killed off" like your old one was, then you more than likely have a drain somewhere. Just my $.02 ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THe_DeTAiL3R Posted July 19, 2004 Report Share Posted July 19, 2004 Check the IAC/IAC wires. Engine will not stay running with it disconnected. Was working on my friend's car today and it would not stay running without giving it gas, jiggled the IAC wires and problem solved.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White93z34 Posted July 19, 2004 Report Share Posted July 19, 2004 an engine can run without IAC, i pulled mine once, idled at 2500 but never died out Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mihela816 Posted July 19, 2004 Report Share Posted July 19, 2004 Did anyone mention the alternator? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
91oldscutlass Posted July 19, 2004 Report Share Posted July 19, 2004 Try replacing your battery cables. At their age, they more than likely need to be replaced. Check all of your ground wire connections under the hood, too. Another possible cause: you might have a mystery circuit left on somewhere that drains the battery. Check your underhood, trunk, and glovebox lights to see if they're stuck "on" when the lids are closed. If the new battery gets "killed off" like your old one was, then you more than likely have a drain somewhere. Just my $.02 ... I do believe all your $.02 worth is about up to a dollar now!!! Ok back to the subject...I agree with disco on the cables..Had a similar problem with a 89 Gp last year changed the cables and fixed the problem!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUILTY Posted July 20, 2004 Author Report Share Posted July 20, 2004 Tonight I made a small cut into the insulation in the positive cable and found green corroded copper inside. I'm sure the entire cable is probably in the same condition. Both positive and negative cables will be replaced tomorrow and hopefully that'll get it running. I'll probably get bring the alternator along and get it tested while I'm at the parts store. Thanks for the help y'all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUILTY Posted July 21, 2004 Author Report Share Posted July 21, 2004 I got the new wires on and I'm still getting the same slow turn over. I also got the alternator tested and it's in good shape. I had a friend come over for some extra help and had him try to crank it while I was looking under the hood. I heard this odd gurgling sound coming from the plenum. :? So I know the fuel is getting pumped to there but there's no steady spark to ignite it. I'm pretty sure this is leading to a bad icm. :x So it's off to my favorite wrecking yard a soon as I can for an icm and, to keep from making another trip out there in this Texas heat, I'm grabbing a computer too. I'll get this bastard running soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cutlsp Posted July 21, 2004 Report Share Posted July 21, 2004 i'm in Dallas texas want me to come take a look at your car? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
excelsior Posted July 21, 2004 Report Share Posted July 21, 2004 alternators are pretty bad on the ws for some reason.....actually all gm cars i have dealt with ive been dissapointed w/ the electrical/power stuff systems..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUILTY Posted July 22, 2004 Author Report Share Posted July 22, 2004 Thanks for the offer cutlsp, but I got the sucker running today. It's good to know that I have a neighbor close by that is willing to lend a hand. It turned out to be a bad icm. I picked one of of a fresh '93 GP at a wrecking yard in Fort Worth for $35. I know why a mechanics charge $600 to replace these now. I've read that replacing icms were hell to deal with and I know that for a fact now. I have so many bruises and cuts from this it looks like I tangled with a wild cat. :x Many thanks to everyone for your help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slade901 Posted July 22, 2004 Report Share Posted July 22, 2004 Its odd. Slow turn over is usually related to battery power. Either the starter/starter solenoid is dying OR the cables are corroded or loose (around the battery, ground, starter connections, etc.). If the ICM is bad, I know you won't get fire but the engine should still spin (turn over) fast. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUILTY Posted July 24, 2004 Author Report Share Posted July 24, 2004 :oops: Ya know, after a lot more research and remembering the original symptoms, I've realized what the problems were and where I went so very wrong. 1. I went the wrong direction bought a "remanufactured" starter without testing my original at an honest parts store that's not set out to screw everyone that walks through the door. (no more Autozone for me thanks ) 2. I should have checked for a current drain, which I've finally found. (fm modulator under the dash) 3. I've read about the idle relearn steps but after putting in a new battery but I had forgotten about it. So I panicked and thought that some major sensor module needed replaced. 4. I wish I had found this article when the problems started. It would have saved me a lot of grief and I wouldn't made a fool out of myself in this cool forum. I've spent more than I should have and ended up with spare parts. I got lucky with the icm replacement. I've definitely learned my lesson with this one. These cars can be complex but usually the fix isn't. :oops: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MIKELABZ Posted July 25, 2004 Report Share Posted July 25, 2004 i just wanted to add:: maybe its your egr valve... a bad egr valve can lead to stall outs and stuttered acceleration... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUILTY Posted July 25, 2004 Author Report Share Posted July 25, 2004 Thanks MIKELABZ. If it starts to act up again with the stall outs I'll have to look into that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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