reallyfastz24 Posted July 10, 2004 Report Share Posted July 10, 2004 Hey (TGP) guys, First post here on the w-body forums, but here, in the final stages i really ask for your help. --- Long ass introduction story for those who are new to this. Skip this if you know whats up --- I've got a 1993 Z24 Convertible, in decent shape, that i picked tte "hard" way to swap the turbo engine in. I prefered to use all stock parts (this was actually the wish of a friend, who died on 9/11...) including the stock xover pipe. Now, i know the stock x-pipes are junk and all, i've gone over this one through and through, and the bellows are still shiney, the welds are all intact, and its actually in great shape. Will it fail -- eventually, sure... but for now, i know its in good enough shape for the car to run correctly. That said.... New GM head gaskets, (read about felpro's being bad, although i ran 11.5 psi non-intercooled boost on them just fine), felpro valley pan gaskets, loctited everything on the motor, nice nice... used the felt upper gaskets instead of the newer style 'o-ring' gaskets... Anyways, after doing up all my vaccum lines, i got the motor running. A few weeks ago, when i got it on the road, the car wouldn't run right with the turbo injectors in it for whatever reason-- it would run so rich it'd choke out. Swapped in NA injectors and drove it for an entire weekend, drove great, aside from this smoking problem Injector impedance checks out, curtis also had this problem on his swapped cars, and wired up the stock pcm with an adapter. Anyways, yes, with the stock 3.1 injectors the car ran astoch with upto 7 psi boost. And yes, i'm sure it was astoch, it was actually one bar from full-rich, and at cruise i'm getting a correct cross-count.. Only thing is a slight hesitation at take off, (accellerator pump issue on carb'd cars) it feels like a vaccum leak, but it won't go away. Any ideas? --- end of intro-- --start of new problems-- Okay, so the car was running, driving, although the engine was smoking like a bastard under teh hood, and coolant was dissappearing. After reading a lot, i found that the felpro head gaskets weren't good, so i got the $89 set of stock ones from the GM devil (err dealer)... and put them in, cleaned everything thouroughly, i'm sure the heads are good, etc etc -- whole motor back together, and get it going. Today, on the first break-in i had a PF47 filter grenade. car pumped the contents of the oil pan all over the floor, but i got the motor shut off just as the gague was falling. no damage, after filter replacement and adding another 3 quarts of oil, (dipstick reads full anyways)... car starts up. **When the engine starts (cold) theres no moisture in the exhaust, just a slightest puff of black, could be as if there was emmissions running through and the cat hadn't warmed enough to catch it yet... nothing major at all. Once it gets up to temperature though, smoke city, and its definitely oil. Before it smelled like both coolant and oil, and we couldn't figure out why.... but after reading of the head gasket issues, and seeing coolant and oil everywhere, we assumed, and that was a big mistake. Whats's everyone think? Compressor oil toast or what? Sorry for the long ass post and explanations. just trying to prevent a delayed answer. I've got LESS than a month to the j-body bash, and i've got to drive this car to ohio! (and get test miles in first) so the turbo has to go out MONDAY AM! Majestic Turbo in TX will be doing my rebuild. I'm gonna send it there before i even get the chance to call them probably! -- Lee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TGPilot Posted July 10, 2004 Report Share Posted July 10, 2004 Do you have the original oil return line from the turbo to oil pan on the car or is it a new "hydralic gauge" hose? Another question...did you use the original head bolts or new ones? The TGP motor uses torque to yeild bolts and can not be reused after the motor heat cycles.... 8) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reallyfastz24 Posted July 11, 2004 Author Report Share Posted July 11, 2004 Brand new felpro head bolts, new Autolite 103's @ .045, new wires (7mm) silicone.... As far as the return hose; its a 3/4" hydraulic hose rated at 3400PSI... (will take the heat, this hose was the on the hydraulic actuator for one of the city's ladder trucks. These are changed every 20 hours for safety reasons -- city mechanic uses these as return hoses on the citys own turbo trucks, so... i'm sure its alright. its like a 10ply hose!) I'm positive the hose doesn't swell. was thinking of that too. Engine runs just fine, with the exception of that 'hesitation'... it feels like the TPS is screwy, but it could be the fuel injector swap too. We'll have to see how it goes. The only other thing worthy of mentioning is the bottom of the oil pan is a little dented in, and seems to be 'over full' according to the dipstick with 4.5 quarts in it... wondering maybe if its overfull and is windage? or something like that? Anyone have any ideas? Also, its currently setting Code 43.... (Knock sensor signal was either above 3.5 volts or below 1.5 volts for at least 0.5 seconds.) BUT If i disconnect the battery to clear the code, start the car and let it idle for minutes its fine. as soon as the motor hesitates (like the accellerator pump issue) the light comes on. -- Lee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbtk2 Posted July 11, 2004 Report Share Posted July 11, 2004 The only other thing worthy of mentioning is the bottom of the oil pan is a little dented in, and seems to be 'over full' according to the dipstick with 4.5 quarts in it... wondering maybe if its overfull and is windage? or something like that? Well, the problem I see here with it having 4.5 quarts and being over full is that you're using a smaller filter than what you're supposed to. I bet if you put the PF-52 (the same filter but like 1" longer) on there it will be closer to where it should be. Shawn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TurboZ24 Posted July 11, 2004 Report Share Posted July 11, 2004 If he has the Cavalier oiling setup, he has to use the small PF-47, otherwise the filter will hang below the frame rails. Did that once and first pot hole I hit, sheared off the bottom of the filter, oil went down fast, and I immediately shut down the car. Luckly I was only going like 5 mph when it happened. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reallyfastz24 Posted July 11, 2004 Author Report Share Posted July 11, 2004 Yup... and the current oil-filter to ground clearance is a whole 4.5 inches as is right now anyways, so i'm not pushing more luck than i have to there! I got a new drain hose from the race shop... it looks to be a hunk of steel reinforced hydraulic pipe off of something industrial, not sure what -- its only like a foot long. either way, i'll fire it up with that connected as a drain and see if i get smoke.. its the only optino i didn't think of -- I did however check the pipe that was on there, and the hydraulic pipe was replaced with a 1' section of 3/4" goodyear heater hose... not sure if thats good enough? -- Lee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
z24 turbo 93 Posted July 12, 2004 Report Share Posted July 12, 2004 i would get rid of those stupid autolite spark plugs too. those are just about worthless. Stick with the stock ac delco ones. and if you have to with the oil filter use the w-body adapter for the block. or just get a relocation kit pieces for the kit are 20 dollars from summit. (i run a pf60 for my cavy) however the braided hoses for the relocation kit are expensive Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reallyfastz24 Posted July 12, 2004 Author Report Share Posted July 12, 2004 haven't had a problem with autolite plugs on my 3800 s/c series two... and for all practical intents and purposes, at least they're the right heat range. I'll switch to R42LTS's afterwards. I'm not going to relocate the oil filter until well after i can get the damn turbo to work right. -- Lee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reallyfastz24 Posted July 12, 2004 Author Report Share Posted July 12, 2004 btw: anyone have any ideas on the hesitation causing the misfire code? if not... i'll swap back to the TGP injectors (or just grab some 3100 injectors to make sure its not the 22lb turbo injectors) Again, car idles great, i really doubt its the plugs! --Lee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
z24 turbo 93 Posted July 13, 2004 Report Share Posted July 13, 2004 when i have hesitation and what seems like a miss with my car. it is usually a exhaust leak somewhere. Mine is always the connection between the rear manifold and the crossover. I would double check to make sure there are no leaks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reallyfastz24 Posted July 13, 2004 Author Report Share Posted July 13, 2004 this happens without the turbo even connected.... - Lee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reallyfastz24 Posted July 13, 2004 Author Report Share Posted July 13, 2004 Okay guys, here's the deal.... pulled the exhaust downpipe off the turbo, and saw a nice coating of dark black oil on it... as well as the whole rotor and whatnot. also the bottom of the housing was wet with fresh oil... This tells me seals are screwed... Seems to be more shaft play on the exhaust side than on the intake side of the turbo, maybe the bearings are worn? I dont' know much about turbos, but thats probably the cause of the problem. theres at least 1/16th an inch play in the exhaust side of the shaft... enough to cause leakage and burning as i'm seeing. Now if i can only get this whole idling thing worked out... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TurboGTU Posted July 13, 2004 Report Share Posted July 13, 2004 On the hissitation...try ohming the TPS and checking the map sensor. I heard of someone saying that a problem like that accured and the main problem was the map. Since your using the old ecm...did it work fine before the TGP swap. Thise ECMs can be a real Azz. That knock sensor should be fixed or replaced. Try using the stock injectors, map and memcal with the turbo wastegate wideopen...and see if the problem still accures...If it does...check the EGR...see if its stuck open. Check your coils. Thats all I could think of right now. PS...My capture device seems to be working..Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reallyfastz24 Posted July 13, 2004 Author Report Share Posted July 13, 2004 Yeah, its a vaccum-type hesitation... and really the only thing i've 'changed' since stage one and stage two was the EGR exhaust tube broke off on the old xover pipe, so i took the stock TGP EGR valve and put it on instead... my bet is thats where the leak is at... I'm going to ohm all the TGP injectors as well, see if one of them was stuck open (The car burned 12 gallons in less than 80 miles, if you need to understand how rich it was running) or whatever. The car runs perfectly Astoch on the stock 3.1 injectors though... (two bars from max rich, which should be like 1.3v (unless i'm doing my math backwards, then its like .07v?) Either way, it doesn't budge, its nice and solid... I'm going to look at the electrical connector to the knock sensor, it did break the last time the engine came out, maybe its just a bad connection and when the motor hesitates it falls out or something. I hope thats all it is... i've snapped a knock sensor off trying to get one out on my old engine. I disconnected all the vaccum lines feeding everything else on the car (mind you, my car has all the lines atop the throttle body RTV'd off from both the inside and outside) and i confirmed that those aren't leaking under vaccum with an ultrasonic leak detector. Now that i think about it, the car did this when i hooked the vaccum line up to the EGR valve really bad... and i disconnected it and plugged it to make it home from the car show... and thats how it sits. I'm going to try and make a blockoff plate of some type... and see where that gets me! -- Lee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
god910 Posted July 15, 2004 Report Share Posted July 15, 2004 If you need a 5 speed MEMCAL lemme know. I can also delete the EGR if you so wish. Then you can make a block off plate for the intake and plug for the x-over. Getting rid of that problem. I'm quite baffled as to why it would run bad w/ the right injectors... I'd look at flow w/ the injectors you're trying, and invest in a new set. (If it's pheasable that is.) I just scanned over all the posts, I'll read them better later and probably realize I just said something stupid. HTH. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1badtgp Posted July 15, 2004 Report Share Posted July 15, 2004 Okay guys, here's the deal.... pulled the exhaust downpipe off the turbo, and saw a nice coating of dark black oil on it... as well as the whole rotor and whatnot. also the bottom of the housing was wet with fresh oil... This tells me seals are screwed... Seems to be more shaft play on the exhaust side than on the intake side of the turbo, maybe the bearings are worn? I dont' know much about turbos, but thats probably the cause of the problem. theres at least 1/16th an inch play in the exhaust side of the shaft... enough to cause leakage and burning as i'm seeing. Now if i can only get this whole idling thing worked out... Holy SHITE!!! That turbo is toast. 1/16th" play on something that should have no more than 1/1000th is bad. That's probably a good majority of the problem right there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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