Guest Anonymous Posted July 8, 2004 Report Share Posted July 8, 2004 OK, my 89 GP SE has been sitting about 2 weeks waiting for me to drop the rear suspension and replace the brake line. Every 3 days or so I started it and let it start warming up. Saturday I replaced the brake line and rear struts. Went to start the car and it started, coughed and shut off. Now it just turns and turns. Here is what I know/checked/replaced so far: -It has spark. I used a timing light to check but it doesn't seem like it's sparking as fast as it should. Replaced ign. mod. and coils. No change. -The fuel pump runs when I turn the key on and when I use the jumper wire. -Grounds are good. -Here's what has me confused. When I turn the key on the SES light don't come on. If I jump the diag. port nothing happens. This led me to believe it was the ECM or an ECM fuse. Both fuses are good. Tried 4 different ECM's. No change. -I'm gonna change the CPS but I don't see how that would have anything to do with the lack of SES light. I hope someone has an idea. My next step is a BFH. :cuss: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TurboSedan Posted July 8, 2004 Report Share Posted July 8, 2004 hmm that's wierd. i know the fuel pump runs but do you actually have fuel coming out of the schrader valve on the fuel rail when you depress the valve? were you able to check pressure? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted July 8, 2004 Report Share Posted July 8, 2004 Lots of fuel coming out of the schrader valve. I haven't checked the pressure yet but if I run the pump manually and pressurize the rail it should start until the gas was used up. That is assuming the fuel pump wasn't pumping with the key on. Which it is running. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GnatGoSplat Posted July 8, 2004 Report Share Posted July 8, 2004 -Here's what has me confused. When I turn the key on the SES light don't come on. If I jump the diag. port nothing happens. This led me to believe it was the ECM or an ECM fuse. Both fuses are good. Tried 4 different ECM's. No change. That would have me confused too, and it makes no sense. The SES light should always come on as part of the power on self-test. Maybe a bad MEMCAL? Or a bad fuse somewhere? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted July 8, 2004 Report Share Posted July 8, 2004 I've pulled every fuse in the car and they are all good. The four ECM's I tried each had their own mem-cal. One from and 89 2.8, one from and 89 3.1, one from a 90 5-speed, and one from a 90 TGP. EDIT to what I said about the fuel in my first post. I HAD lots of fuel coming out of the schrader valve. Now I just get a little spurt after letting the fuel pump prime. BUT if I pull the shrader valve completely out of the fuel rail and do it, fuel shoots out. Now I'm thinking the injectors are stuck open. Still doesn't explain the SES light. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GnatGoSplat Posted July 8, 2004 Report Share Posted July 8, 2004 Maybe a shorted injector shorting out the ECM? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted July 8, 2004 Report Share Posted July 8, 2004 Maybe a shorted injector shorting out the ECM? Sounds logical. But I worked all night and haven't gone to bed yet so it will have to wait until tomorrow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian P Posted July 8, 2004 Report Share Posted July 8, 2004 tis why it's good to have 2+ w-bodies....test the ecm's in that! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LukeZ34 Posted July 8, 2004 Report Share Posted July 8, 2004 Fouled plugs? Could be that shredded wire mod that I had too.. lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GPdriver1986 Posted July 8, 2004 Report Share Posted July 8, 2004 maybe a defective crank sensor? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteOut Posted July 8, 2004 Report Share Posted July 8, 2004 maybe a defective crank sensor? If it was a defective crank sensor there would still be a one in six chance that it would start okay. Even if it was dead the initial dump of fuel by all of the injectors when you try to start it should produce something at least resembling combustion, not just cranking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian P Posted July 8, 2004 Report Share Posted July 8, 2004 a bad crank sensor should cause a no-spark condition. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted July 8, 2004 Report Share Posted July 8, 2004 a bad crank sensor should cause a no-spark condition. According to a timing light I have spark. Just doesn't seem very strong. My buddy at work has a Regal at his house with a 3.1 in it. I'm gonna try that computer also. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GP1138 Posted July 8, 2004 Report Share Posted July 8, 2004 This may seem illogical, but try a different cluster and see if the bulb behind the SES symbol has gone out in yours. The issues might be unrelated and coincidental. Just a thought. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted July 8, 2004 Report Share Posted July 8, 2004 This may seem illogical, but try a different cluster and see if the bulb behind the SES symbol has gone out in yours. The issues might be unrelated and coincidental. Just a thought. I was gonna check the bulb BUT, when I jump A and B in the diagnostic port the fan doesn't come on. So even if the bulb is out, something is still wrong with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GP1138 Posted July 8, 2004 Report Share Posted July 8, 2004 This may seem illogical, but try a different cluster and see if the bulb behind the SES symbol has gone out in yours. The issues might be unrelated and coincidental. Just a thought. I was gonna check the bulb BUT, when I jump A and B in the diagnostic port the fan doesn't come on. So even if the bulb is out, something is still wrong with it. Hmm. I'd say check wiring. Something got hot and burned a wire. I had a problem where a fuse didn't blow. My headlight switchpod decided to smoke out and the fuse did not blow. It freaked me out, and my dash lights didn't work until I fixed the wiring under my dash. Check the wiring around the ECM. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian P Posted July 9, 2004 Report Share Posted July 9, 2004 put one of your ecm's in the Regal, rather than the other way around, just to make sure your car isnt frying them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted July 18, 2004 Report Share Posted July 18, 2004 I spent Saturday working on the Saturn and GP. When I popped the hood on the GP this is what I found. http://img78.photobucket.com/albums/v293/redturbo90/?action=view¤t=DSC00134.jpg So now I get to start tracing wires. None of the wiring on top of the motor looked chewed. All the injectors ohm'd at 12.6-12.9. But they still wouldn't hold pressure. So I threw another set in. They ohm'd at 12.6-12.8. They also seem to be holding more pressure. Just ask the mouse, he got a bath in gas. The bastard. So now it sounds like it wants to start but the battery is too dead. Just wanted to give an update. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robby1870 Posted July 18, 2004 Report Share Posted July 18, 2004 After the gas bath, did you burn the little fucker? If you need a set of injectors with better ohm readings, Ive got an set for an n/a 3.1L that tested b/n 12.2 and 12.3 ohms. Hope it starts after the battery is charged! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian P Posted July 18, 2004 Report Share Posted July 18, 2004 Mouse wipe! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted July 18, 2004 Report Share Posted July 18, 2004 After the gas bath, did you burn the little fucker? No. Tried to stab him with a screwdriver though. Until I almost stuck it through the M/C. :? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Gp crazy Posted July 18, 2004 Report Share Posted July 18, 2004 If none of that work's and the SES light is not on now! look for a little blue case under the driverside of the dash! It will open up and there is a broad in side! Take look at it or smell if it smells burnt or look's like it got hot replace it "BUT LOOK AT THE PLUG FIRST " if it's melted you might want to find out why before replacing. Mine was alt over charging! Mine was 19.2 & when cold 20.1 volts I though the lights were bright one day when I went to work but dash gauge said just above 13.0 volts go figure! it should be around 14.5 - 14.8 ! if that dose not work look at the starter "FUSIBLE LINKS" had this happen while on a road trip going down the road everything just stopped but the starter would turn over but nothing else would work. 2 hrs later a tow and 3 hrs of shop time it ran way better than before. just a thought Jeff B & good luck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GnatGoSplat Posted July 18, 2004 Report Share Posted July 18, 2004 The fact that you found a mouse tells me that you have hours and hours of tracing wires ahead of you. I would map out the ECM and check for continuity between all wires starting at the ECM connector to their destination. Mice chew through wires. It's what they do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
god910 Posted July 18, 2004 Report Share Posted July 18, 2004 ...It will open up and there is a broad in side! Take look at it or smell if it smells burnt or look's like it got hot replace it... Well, if you find a broad in there lemme know. IF it smells bad, it's probably runts fault. If it looks like it got hot, he wasn't near it. If it smells burnt, you *may* end up pissing chunks. Definetly replace it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
midnight rider Posted July 19, 2004 Report Share Posted July 19, 2004 Thats pretty damn funny. Thanks for sharing that. I'd have caught him and caged him. I mean afterall, he seems to like your w-body as much as you do.....lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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