Smoke1991 Posted June 15, 2004 Report Share Posted June 15, 2004 Hi everyone, i posted this over at l67swap.com but that was befor i realized this site existed :-P Im new, and here is my story. Hello, i own a 93 cutlass supreme, VIN: T 3.1 MPFI, and it has 150K miles on it, now besides just taking a trip to florida and back (I live in NY). My power steering line went (high pressure one) and 2 days later when i was back in ny, my main coolant house going to the engine(right next to my airbox) started squirting coolant on my driverside radiator fan. I had to replace all 3 items, hose, steering line, and fan motor. Now all of this works wonderfull, even though the pressure line was a pain in my ass(up till 4:30 AM started at 1PM the day before) my engine for some time now has a nasty knocking sound on when i start it cold and continues till it warms up a good amount. Besides braking my dipstick handle while pulling the dogmount bolt out when i was doing the radiator fan motor swap (i refuse to pay 15 bucks for a new one from a dealer, so i drilled and tap'd the plastic top of the dipstick while still stuck in the pipe and screwed a screw in, which works like a charm.) What else could be busted thats causing this sound? I dont use 5-30 at all anymore, Im using 10w-30 with 10w-40 3/2 ratio and A/C delco oil filter. Ive basicly had almost everything brake on this car, and fixed except the tranny, and the engine. I got the car when it had 130K on it. and this sound is new to me... Im just out of ideas on what it is... im thinking it might be a push rod or maybe a nobe on my cam has been damaged. I did do the magnet trick and got metal specs a while ago, but no new particles now. I am planning to go to NC in a week and I dont need to get stuck 500 miles away from home. Any help or suggestions with my motor is welcome. Id like to fix this bad boy up and put some nice 17X7 rims on it, tint it, and a system in it and im happy, but these bugs gota be fixed first. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rudefyet Posted June 15, 2004 Report Share Posted June 15, 2004 is it a major knock or just valve noise...like a ticking sound the ticking is normal for these engines...someone can explain that...but it's nothing to worry about a knock on the other hand.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gp90se Posted June 15, 2004 Report Share Posted June 15, 2004 The joys of low end knock. sounds like your engine might be on its way out. Might wanna drain a quart and 1/2 of oil and put in a bottle of lucas (which is basiclly vasoline) or, as the risk of your gaskets leaking, a couple quarts of 10w30 synthetic. My guess would be a pushrod thats slightly bent or 1 of your mains is warn. -Jeff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smoke1991 Posted June 15, 2004 Author Report Share Posted June 15, 2004 well, its kinda hard to figure out where the sound is coming from when the hood is open, what i will do is record the sound and post it. you guys tell me what you think it is. it just doesent sound healthy at all. P.S: Its more of a rattle, somthing could be lose? Im working on that recording now, also, brian P's work is about 15 min away from where i live, he says that its nothing to worry about, but i can start my car at night and here it 100 feet away, I KNOW it cant be good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian P Posted June 15, 2004 Report Share Posted June 15, 2004 I gotta hear it again. Has it gotten louder? I read a service bulletin from GM about mid '92- all '93 3.1's having excessive piston-to-pin clearance and causing the tapping noise at startup. My sister's '93 Cutlass Sedan does this in the morning but it's usually quiet within a minute. If your noise lasts longer then it could very well be something else. If it were anything like rod or main bearings about to fail, then they wouldn't have survived the florida drive. A good possibility that it's a failing lifter or even an accessory or belt tensioner could cause odd noises. Does the noise occur with the serpentine belt disconnected? BTW Which dealer did you go to for that dipstick price? If you don't mind calling a dealer in Florida, try http://www.gmotors.com call their 800 number for a price. This is were Taylor and I make many purchases. Or in about 2 weeks I can pilfer you one from the junkyard for like $3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gp90se Posted June 15, 2004 Report Share Posted June 15, 2004 I misunderstood, i thought it was after the roadtrip the noise started. what is your oil pressure at cold start? does it sound like a loud tick (like a pencil against a desk) or like somebody knocking on a door? my 3.1 had a stupid lifter that liked 2 tick, but it was constant, cold or hot. if you give it a little gas while its knocking, does it get louder or go away. Im tryin to think of things that could be wrong with ya 3.1. i used 2 love beatin the crap outta mine and i couldnt kill it (even holding gear till 7k rpms, but the tranny hated it). -Jeff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smoke1991 Posted June 15, 2004 Author Report Share Posted June 15, 2004 ok give me steps to figure out how to pinpoint this problem. I honestly thought you cant run the car w/o the belt on but im a newb at this, trying to learn as much as possible about how to fix/repair/modify cars. Im a computer geek, not a auto geek(not yet at least!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian P Posted June 16, 2004 Report Share Posted June 16, 2004 you can run the car with the belt off, but not more than a minute or so because of the water pump etc. I realize I actually haven't heard the noise yet. Does it only happen when it's cold? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Z34door Posted June 16, 2004 Report Share Posted June 16, 2004 change your oil pump......... before you do some serious damage. my original 3.1 did the same thing. then a week later blew parts in the oil pan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
89oldscutlass Posted June 16, 2004 Report Share Posted June 16, 2004 You guys sure he is not hearing the normal ratteling 2.8s,3.1s and 3100s makes when you first start them up in the mornings? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THe_DeTAiL3R Posted June 16, 2004 Report Share Posted June 16, 2004 I have to ask the same question posted above.. what is your oil pressure when you start it cold? It should be relatively high. I remember some knocking one time when I changed my oil, but after a few seconds (when the oil got through the system) the sound went away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mfewtrail Posted June 16, 2004 Report Share Posted June 16, 2004 You guys sure he is not hearing the normal ratteling 2.8s,3.1s and 3100s makes when you first start them up in the mornings? None of my 3.1's have any kind of rattlling noises when cranked up. My original motor in my 93 GP had 230K on it when I pulled it, it made absolutely no noises like that at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian P Posted June 16, 2004 Report Share Posted June 16, 2004 some of these 3.1's just make these noises. Maybe it's from lack of care, varying tolerances, who knows. My sisters car does it with 130k and been doing it since we bought it with 103k. Her car is a little rough. On the other hand my old '90 Cutlass 3.1 has 220k and was silent. Whether these sounds are serious or not, I gotta hear it personally and maybe get a couple other opinions from the techs at my job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smoke1991 Posted June 16, 2004 Author Report Share Posted June 16, 2004 Well, to start off, the sound lasts for longer than a minute, on a cold start that is. After it warms and the temp passes into the open spot with no marks you can bearly hear it but its there. I have good hearing(selective but good) and i can still hear it. Oil pressure is fine, that oil pressure readout i get never changes at all, always right next to the 3rd line, little less. Now about this oil pump, please speculate about how it is powered(not by the belt??...yes/no) how much does it cost, and how how hard is it to fix, can i do it without trouble... Also, for the normal rattle in the morning, when i first got the car (at 130K) it never made the rattle sound at all. Just in the past 3-4 months. getting worse as time passes by. give me more info about it, i thank you. tommorow if it doesent rain i will try to run the car w/o the belt to see if it makes it... im currently stranded at my friends house, gota help him study for GED test... Thanks for the help. any other questions ill answer asap. My goal for the next week, pinpoint problem(s) and fix em Im shure you all know the feeling of messing around with somthing you dont know much about and end up spending a world of time putting it back togeather... Well im trying to prevent that and trying to avoid paying someone 80+ bucks an hr to do what i beleive is in my power to do. I figure i saved at least 400 bucks on all the crap i just fixed on the car in labor so im happy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulo57509 Posted June 16, 2004 Report Share Posted June 16, 2004 The joys of low end knock. sounds like your engine might be on its way out. Might wanna drain a quart and 1/2 of oil and put in a bottle of lucas (which is basiclly vasoline) or, as the risk of your gaskets leaking, a couple quarts of 10w30 synthetic. My guess would be a pushrod thats slightly bent or 1 of your mains is warn. -Jeff Lucas? http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/images/lucas/lucas.htm Engines don't have "gears" like the test fixture (oil pump, maybe), but it does make one think twice about additives. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gp90se Posted June 16, 2004 Report Share Posted June 16, 2004 the difference between that test and an actual motor, your not running an engine at that kind of revs and its a much lower mixture (20% lucas, 80% oil). I was thinking lucas would be a good additive is because it will help to better lubricate everything, which could help stop the knock. -Jeff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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