4t60E longevity?

[loominaz34]

Hey all, I'm wondering how long the stock auto trans in my Z is going to last.

 

It's got 117 grand on the odometer and so far it has been babied. How long will it last for a teenager (hard driver) who will be putting a lot of miles on it, at the very least 200 miles highway per month and 100 miles city, probably more.

 

When i changed the fluid, it looked new and there were no shavings on the magnet, just fine metal powder.[/u]

[Guest RedCutlassSL]

seriously, maybe another 10 k at most

[jeremy]

don't drive it like an a$$hole and it will last a lot longer....

[Robby1870]

since you've changed the fluid often and babied it, it should be fine for a while. Just dont let the next driver hit 7000 rpm too often......it doesnt like it

[loominaz34]

The fluid got changed at 117 grand, never before then.

 

And I am the next driver, the car was my dad's. I'm trying to figure out how fast I'll have to save for transmission work/replacement.

[digitaloutsider]

Yeah, just don't drive the thing like an assgirrafe and you shouldn't have many problems with it.

[arvetus]

My Regal had the 4t60 and I sold it at 185,000 in December and the new owners are still driving the heck out of it. Original tranny. Flushed at 80,000 and again at about 160,000. No problems. (not sure if it was flushed before...I bought the car with 78,000) Manufacturer recommends 15,000 I think for that tranny, not sure if the 4t60e is different.

[Brian P]

Damn, don't listen to people that think it'll last like another 6 months. Ignorance here I swear. What the hell proof can you show ME that the tranny will last "only another 10k?"

 

The common things that kill these trannys stem from running it low on fluid, keeping bad fluid in, accumulator spring failure on the 1-2 (pre '90 only and some 4T60E's '93-96) and neutral dropping. How bad was the fluid when you changed it? Never do a full flush on a trans that has fluid turning brown. I've done pan drops/filter changes on 4T60 trannys that have had browned fluid and done it every 10-15k miles until the fluid looks red again. However I do a lot of driving, you may want to shorten the intervals to 5k-8k.

 

Cutlass #1 (mine) my '90- original tranny lasted 220,000 miles, lost 3rd gear, which stemmed from the 1-2 accumulator spring being broken since the day I got it (never knew about the potential problem until too late)- 3rd gear uses a combo of the 1-2 and 3-4 accumulator pistons to shift.

Cutlass #2 (mine) '89- 155k tranny still works, but the accumulator spring was broken. I replaced it and shifts firmed up real nice.

Cutlass #3 (mine) '95: 98k like brand new. just put a tranny cooler on it for extra cooling.

Cutlass #4 (moms) '95: killed it at 110k due to running it almost fully out of fluid and not checking it. 1-2 shift virtually non existant.

Cutlass #5 (sisters) '93: 130k- bought with 103k on the clock and bad fluid. Did 2 fluid changes since then- tranny is like new.

 

Than there's about a half dozen 4T60/ 4T60E cars I know of thru friends and relatives. All with the same types of stories.

[Guest RedCutlassSL]

proof? plenty, my car has killed 2, a friend of mine bought a low mileage, well taken care of 95 gtp, and a week later it killed that. and from the car dealership i used to work at, i've seen plenty of blown 4t60-es

don't be so quick to judge there guy

[Heza]

The fluid got changed at 117 grand, never before then.

 

And I am the next driver, the car was my dad's. I'm trying to figure out how fast I'll have to save for transmission work/replacement.

 

NEVER BEFORE 117 GRAND?!?!?!??! nice way to treat a car!

[grandprixgtp_91]

yeah my brothers car has killed 3 tranny's, its a 91 gtp 3.4L DOHC , with a 4t60-e and it was damn near stock. believe it or not it was because of the way the engine was running. if your engine isnt running to proper specs it will ruin your transmission. his first original transmission had 275,000 km on it and we beat on that car every day, i mean redline at least 10 times a day and all kinds of reverse drops and in the rain we would spin the tires up to 160 km/h at a dead stop for fun. and then the reason it blew was because the engine got all screwed up and we never fixed the engine for another 2 transmissions and then finally the engine had it so we replaced the engine with a brand new one and put another tranny in it and we havent had one problem yet.

 

Jake

[Brian P]

proof? plenty, my car has killed 2, a friend of mine bought a low mileage, well taken care of 95 gtp, and a week later it killed that. and from the car dealership i used to work at, i've seen plenty of blown 4t60-es

don't be so quick to judge there guy

 

a 3.4 DOHC so it was probably revved to piss ant, and your second was what, a rebuild? You can't tell me you babied yours with all those race stories you used to post.

 

And the shop I work at, most of the cars that come in for tranny service have burnt up original fluid with well over 100k. Public doesn't know what's up, I'm lucky I got mine with under 100k cause the fluid was original in THAT too. Funny how I can take care of 6 different cars with a variant of that tranny and not have a single premature failure, huh...

[WhiteOut]

Funny how I can take care of 6 different cars with a variant of that tranny and not have a single premature failure, huh...

 

Yeah, but I'm gonna guess that all 6 of them were mated to 2.8's or 3.1's. Speaking from experience with cars hooked to 3800's and LQ1's these transmission DO tend to blow up at around 100k if not properly taken care of. Case in point;

 

Car 1: 1986 Olds 98' w/ 3.8 and TH440 (not sure if this number is correct, but it was the forerunner of the 4T60). Tranny dead at 78k due to bad 1-2 clutch.

 

Car 2: 1989 Olds 98 Touring Sedan w/ 3800 and 4T60. Tranny dead and rebuilt at 146k due to torque converter solenoid failure.

 

Car 3: 1990 Olds Toronado Trofeo w/ 3800 and 4T60. Tranny dead and rebuilt at 88k due to problems with 1-2 shift (not sure of the exact cause as I didn't own this car at the time). The car also had problems with the 3-4 hunt if there's no throttle input while coasting at 50+ mph. This was a common problem with this trans and was fixed in 91' with the introduction of the 4T60e from what I understand.

 

Car 4: 1995 Cutlass Supreme w/ 3.4 DOHC and 4T60e. Tranny spontaneously detonates itself after two weeks of me owning it and 3 days after changing the fluid/filter. It shifted like a dream when I bought it with 93k miles on it, and 400 miles later I pull out of the garage and the reverse reaction drum rips itself apart sending its pieces through out the tranny thus destorying everything else. $2100 for a complete rebuild.

 

Car 5: 1997 Bonneville SSE w/ 3800 II and 4T60e. Transmission had two rebuilds, one at 56k and another at 150k. The first was due to 3-4 shift problems, and the second due to 1-2 shift problems that were probably present during the first rebuild but were ignored by the dealer prior to my parents purchasing the car. First rebuild was free and performed by a dealer just before the cars purchase, second was around $1600 from what I recall.

 

Car 6: 1999 Regal GSE w/ 3800 SC II and 4T65e HD. Despite good maintenance and a dad that drives like a 98 year old Grandma the tranny is having noticeable trouble with the 1-2 shift at high RPM's. I've personally changed the fluid and filter on this car twice, once at 53k and again last week at 98k. What happens remains to be seen.

 

So in retrospect every car I or my family has ever owned with a 4T60 tranny has died at or around 100k. I know for a fact cars 1,2 and 6 were well taken care of as they were in the possesion of family members all of their lives, and I also know that I'm the most psychotic driver in my family and I'm pretty lame compared to most of you judging by the race stories that are posted. Don't get me wrong, despite bad experiences with the transimission I'm actually quite happy with it. In comparison to many Ford and Chrysler's I've driven the performance of the 4T60 is impecable, its just a bit tempermental if its not taken care of as previously mentioned.

[mfewtrail]

I had 230K on my original 4T60-E in my 1993 Grand Prix(3.1), the car was babied for the first 200K and I driven kinda hard afterwards..the transaxle had no problems save for a shot TCC solenoid when I pulled it(I removed the original engine/trans to modify them..). I've currently got a 3.1/4T60-E combo in the car that both have 170K on them, the 4T60-E still shifts like a dream and the 3.1 runs strong.

 

 

EDIT: My parents have a 94 Buick Regal w/ the 3800/4T60-E combo @ 110K currently, no problems out of the transaxle in it so far.

[sonyman87]

my trany isnt in the greatest of conditions with a slip in 1st at 35k rpms(possible safty feature to save trany) that was at 104k miles. now im at 1698xx miles and its no worse off then before, and i drive like a stupid sob sometimes. Nutral bombing it, flooring it hitting over 6.5krpms daily tons of highway half as much city. The only thing i do to protect it is change the fluid ontime. The good fellas at Topgun that change my trany fluid coment how clean the pan is every time they do it. every 25k-35k miles.

[SmokesGTP]

Damn, don't listen to people that think it'll last like another 6 months. Ignorance here I swear. What the hell proof can you show ME that the tranny will last "only another 10k?"

 

The common things that kill these trannys stem from running it low on fluid, keeping bad fluid in, accumulator spring failure on the 1-2 (pre '90 only and some 4T60E's '93-96) and neutral dropping. How bad was the fluid when you changed it? Never do a full flush on a trans that has fluid turning brown. I've done pan drops/filter changes on 4T60 trannys that have had browned fluid and done it every 10-15k miles until the fluid looks red again. However I do a lot of driving, you may want to shorten the intervals to 5k-8k.

 

Cutlass #1 (mine) my '90- original tranny lasted 220,000 miles, lost 3rd gear, which stemmed from the 1-2 accumulator spring being broken since the day I got it (never knew about the potential problem until too late)- 3rd gear uses a combo of the 1-2 and 3-4 accumulator pistons to shift.

Cutlass #2 (mine) '89- 155k tranny still works, but the accumulator spring was broken. I replaced it and shifts firmed up real nice.

Cutlass #3 (mine) '95: 98k like brand new. just put a tranny cooler on it for extra cooling.

Cutlass #4 (moms) '95: killed it at 110k due to running it almost fully out of fluid and not checking it. 1-2 shift virtually non existant.

Cutlass #5 (sisters) '93: 130k- bought with 103k on the clock and bad fluid. Did 2 fluid changes since then- tranny is like new.

 

Than there's about a half dozen 4T60/ 4T60E cars I know of thru friends and relatives. All with the same types of stories.

 

Brian, how does one go about determining whether the accumulator spring is broken or not, and replacing it? My 1-2 shift takes just a split second too long and sends too much of a jolt through the car. It's just an annoyance but I'd prefer this tranny to last me.

[Heza]

i drive my 3.4 hard sometimes and have 74k on it. however, i change my tranny fluid every 9k miles. 15k in my girlfriends 3100 4t60e.

 

theres a guy who dragged his car 200+ times on his 3.4 and it had 170k miles on it. no problems. fluid changes and a tranny cooler can do a lot.

[WhiteOut]

Perhaps its time to start changing the tranny fluid yearly instead of every 50k or so.

 

And on the subject of tranny coolers when you guys add one do you put a larger one in place of the stock unit, or do you put an additional one inline with it? And what size unit are we talking about here, similar to stock size or considerably larger??? I've read multiple times that cooling the fluid too much can be just as detrimental to its performance as having fluid that is too warm, is this true?

[Brian P]

Funny how I can take care of 6 different cars with a variant of that tranny and not have a single premature failure, huh...

 

Yeah, but I'm gonna guess that all 6 of them were mated to 2.8's or 3.1's. Speaking from experience with cars hooked to 3800's and LQ1's these transmission DO tend to blow up at around 100k if not properly taken care of. Case in point;

 

Car 1: 1986 Olds 98' w/ 3.8 and TH440 (not sure if this number is correct, but it was the forerunner of the 4T60). Tranny dead at 78k due to bad 1-2 clutch.

 

Car 2: 1989 Olds 98 Touring Sedan w/ 3800 and 4T60. Tranny dead and rebuilt at 146k due to torque converter solenoid failure.

 

Car 3: 1990 Olds Toronado Trofeo w/ 3800 and 4T60. Tranny dead and rebuilt at 88k due to problems with 1-2 shift (not sure of the exact cause as I didn't own this car at the time). The car also had problems with the 3-4 hunt if there's no throttle input while coasting at 50+ mph. This was a common problem with this trans and was fixed in 91' with the introduction of the 4T60e from what I understand.

 

Car 4: 1995 Cutlass Supreme w/ 3.4 DOHC and 4T60e. Tranny spontaneously detonates itself after two weeks of me owning it and 3 days after changing the fluid/filter. It shifted like a dream when I bought it with 93k miles on it, and 400 miles later I pull out of the garage and the reverse reaction drum rips itself apart sending its pieces through out the tranny thus destorying everything else. $2100 for a complete rebuild.

 

Car 5: 1997 Bonneville SSE w/ 3800 II and 4T60e. Transmission had two rebuilds, one at 56k and another at 150k. The first was due to 3-4 shift problems, and the second due to 1-2 shift problems that were probably present during the first rebuild but were ignored by the dealer prior to my parents purchasing the car. First rebuild was free and performed by a dealer just before the cars purchase, second was around $1600 from what I recall.

 

Car 6: 1999 Regal GSE w/ 3800 SC II and 4T65e HD. Despite good maintenance and a dad that drives like a 98 year old Grandma the tranny is having noticeable trouble with the 1-2 shift at high RPM's. I've personally changed the fluid and filter on this car twice, once at 53k and again last week at 98k. What happens remains to be seen.

 

So in retrospect every car I or my family has ever owned with a 4T60 tranny has died at or around 100k. I know for a fact cars 1,2 and 6 were well taken care of as they were in the possesion of family members all of their lives, and I also know that I'm the most psychotic driver in my family and I'm pretty lame compared to most of you judging by the race stories that are posted. Don't get me wrong, despite bad experiences with the transimission I'm actually quite happy with it. In comparison to many Ford and Chrysler's I've driven the performance of the 4T60 is impecable, its just a bit tempermental if its not taken care of as previously mentioned.

 

I know I can't speak for the 4T65E but it's probably very similar to the 60-E minus the vacuum modulator. I know '86-87 H-bodies had a nearly 100% failure rate of the trannys (back when I was looking at some for sale, every one I looked at had a rebuilt or replaced tranny) and GM finally got it right with the 4T60-E and the '91-92 4T60. All my cars are mated to 3.1's/3100's so they're not revved past 5500-6000 rpm's, that's probably what kills the poor things when a 3.4dohc is mated to it and revved that much higher.

 

Was car 2's tranny actually dead or was the torque converter solenoid just bad? My friend had that solenoid go bad and otherwise didn't affect the tranny, except for lockup.

 

Your toronado I can guarantee you had a broken 1-2 accum spring cause that's exactly what happened to my '90 Tranny- 1-2 got slower and slower and I believe 2-3 AND 3-4 would slip and not engage if no load was present. This stems from the 1-2 accum piston spring failing, if you check out the diagram in the GM book, it shows how it plays a part in that trans. In 1991 GM beefed up the spring big time on the 60 and 60-E. This is what I ordered new and installed into my '89.

 

I also had a problem with the reverse servo breaking on my '90- (not sure if you mean the same thing, prob not) but I replaced the servo assembly and spring and good as new.

[loominaz34]

2 more questions:

 

first, What is an assgiraffe?

 

and second, how do they drive?

[Heza]

Perhaps its time to start changing the tranny fluid yearly instead of every 50k or so.

 

And on the subject of tranny coolers when you guys add one do you put a larger one in place of the stock unit, or do you put an additional one inline with it? And what size unit are we talking about here, similar to stock size or considerably larger??? I've read multiple times that cooling the fluid too much can be just as detrimental to its performance as having fluid that is too warm, is this true?

 

you put the tranny cooler inline with the return line after it leaves the radiator.

[Brian P]

I actually installed my tranny cooler inline with the inlet cooler line. That way fluid gets cooled by the cooler first, then goes to the radiator. This way the fluid isn't "overcooled"- going to the radiator after the cooler regulates the fluid temperature. It also helps the radiator a little to be more efficient with cooling the engine coolant.

 

I did notice after installing the cooler, that the shifts are consistent all the time. The shifts don't soften up after driving 30+ miles on the highway, then going back into town.

[WhiteOut]

I also had a problem with the reverse servo breaking on my '90- (not sure if you mean the same thing, prob not) but I replaced the servo assembly and spring and good as new.

 

No, it was the drum that exploded on my car. The guy showed it to me, kinda looks like a cross between a coffee can and a cheese gratter. Anyways, it was in about 20 pieces and it looked like a tin can does when you twist it in half.

[GPRACER]

my 1995 has 160k on the tranny, I change my fluid often, every 20k or so. Never had a problem. Other than 1 upgraded pcm calibration, I've never done anything to it.

[SUPERDUTYD]

my first z34 had 130,000 on original when i sold it. my current has 160,000. who really knows what makes them last or fail.