Brake bleeding and fluid type

[kanwisch]

I've been doing lots of research, and will be doing some brake flushing/bleeding. For the moment, finding a local place that carries the Mityvac has been fruitless, but I'm still working on that.

 

Anyone on here change their brake fluid as maintenance, say once every 3-4 years? The wife constantly complains about how unresponsive (not spongy) the brakes are, and I've got good rotors and PF's Z pads. Our comparison points are an '02 T/A and an '04 GP, both which stop much more readily.

 

My plan is to use ATE Super Blue. Any thoughts out there on brands/types? How about other, cheap mods that might help the brakes. With ~160k miles, I see no reason to do a Big Brake setup, or even SS lines.

 

TIA.

[WhiteOut]

Crappy brakes are just something your going to have to get used to with an first gen W-body. For whatever reason the cars just don't stop well or have good brake feel. Just bad engineering I suppose.

 

As for fluid, I replaced mine with Valvoline Synthetic last summer when I did the rest of my brake work. I can't really comment on how much of an improvment it made since I had only had the car for two weeks at that point, but I'm happy with how the brakes are responding after changing the fluid and its retaining its clear color a year later. I suppose in your case its worth a try to see if it improves things, its only about a ten dollar job if you do it yourself. If that doesn't work you may want to check into buying new calipers for the car. I think they run about $50-60 a piece and they can make a significant differance in brake performace since ten year old calipers start to stick.

[kanwisch]

Thanks, I'll try swapping out the front right caliper at the next change.

 

With the car being a '99, I expected more, since it was nearly the last year for the Luminas. I'd have thought they would realize the poor braking and improved it, but I gather not.

[BIGBULS]

The only thing that I can think of that might firm up brake feel would be to get some SS lines (if they are made for W's).............also, if the pedal is feeling "wooden", it may be that the PF Z Rated pads need a little extra heat to work..............so on the first few stops each day (or if given too long to cool while driving), the pedal goes down..........and not much happens (until they reach operating temp).

 

 

 

 

 

As for fluid choice, Motul RBF600 has the highest dry and wet boiling points for DOT3/4 fluids.

 

I have it in the NX...........no real pedal feel differences over stock though..............it just that the brakes don't fade now (matched with my Axxis Metal Master pads).............and I'm more than a little abusive on my brakes than normal .

 

Here's a funny video of me abusing my girlfriend's car :

Brake Fire Video

 

I was actually messing with the Beretta in the video, but after about 10 stops from higher speeds (>100mph)...................

[93CutlassSupreme]

If that doesn't work you may want to check into buying new calipers for the car. I think they run about $50-60 a piece and they can make a significant differance in brake performace since ten year old calipers start to stick.

 

they cost more than that

 

pep boys wants $80 i'm sure other auto parts stores will charge similar

[Baddflash]

Crappy brakes are just something your going to have to get used to with an first gen W-body. For whatever reason the cars just don't stop well or have good brake feel. Just bad engineering I suppose.

 

First Gen Only??????? My GP GT has worse braking cause it's a boat and more unresponsive pedal feel than my Lumina and it has all new rotors and pads like the Lumina, same brand even.

 

Maybe the bigger gen2 setup would show a good improvement in a gen1, but I say all w-body's factory braking sucked.IMHO

 

What do other owners of both gen1/2 think????

[WhiteOut]

Second gen sucks as far as pedal feel goes, but they do stop noticeably faster as compared to the first generation of cars. This based on my experience with a 97' GP GTP, a 99' Regal GSE, and an 03' Monte Carlo SS.

 

I've not driven a pre 94' car so I don't even want to imagine what thats like.

[ismellrealbad]

94+ brakes rule, especially with ABS. my car really fuckin grabs when i need it to. but now lately im having TONS of brake probs. front caliper were rattleing..badly and constantly right around the time i need pads changed, so i baught pads and calipers. now whenever i step on the brakes the entire car pulsates and it pisses me off........do i need rotors now? any way i can tell myself? also my brake light comes on and off all the time. ususally the pattern is when i start coasting or braking it will go off, then when i start accelerating it comes back on.....this is pretty presistant. it usually doesnt have a pattern but thats the best i could get. braking performance seems unaffected

[Dan94Z34]

Yeah, my breaks are on fire. Lets drive faster, so we feed the fire more oxygen. that and the while German accent thing is anoying and stupid.

[BIGBULS]

Yeah, my breaks are on fire. Lets drive faster, so we feed the fire more oxygen. that and the while German accent thing is anoying and stupid.

 

Ok............so how would YOU get the brake fire out (piss on it???)?

 

Trying to beat it out with a jacket didn't do it, so, drive a ways...........this ALSO stopped the rotors from warping (as well as putting the fire out). It's not like I haven't done this before (although YOU apparently don't have a clue).

 

Rule no.1 with hot brakes.........do NOT stop driving for any period of time if you want them to NOT warp.......ANY idiot knows that (except YOU of course ).

 

 

As for the fake German accent...........you can go talk to my friend about THAT. *I* was too busy trying to beat out the fire.

 

 

I should point out that the Neon has the SAME pads AND rotors on it today as it did during the the video............NO warping, NO glazing............so apparenly I did SOMETHING right.

 

Keep up with the good advice there

 

 

 

 

The funny thing is, even when they were burning, those Hawk HP pads really hadn't faded much at all............the only reason I knew they were on fire was the flickering from the other car (the pedal was still firm and responsive)............just goes to show how much abuse a good set of pads can take.

[digitaloutsider]

Rofl.. that video.. the brakes.. on fire..

 

 

Best video EVAR.

[kanwisch]

Thoought I'd post up a follow-up. Changed out the brake fluid using ATE fluid, and there is a noticeable improvement, but I'd still say they're not great.

 

I did know the Z pads needed to be warmer, but that doesn't make all that much difference. Its more an issue of amount of pressure required to get good stopping power. Gotta wonder if a change in the master cylinder wouldn't make a difference, but too much work for this thing.