Getting the most out of my 1996 3100

[Cornerdealy]

Well, it's summer time and I've got the mod itch.

 

I would like to know everything that can be done to this bastard engine, minus anything really custom. Basically bolt on stuff. What can I add/change to get the most out of it? I'm not expecting huge HP gains at all.

 

Please be patient with me, I'm a newb to these cars and I'm still learning. I know there isn't a lot to do short of a complete engine swap, but how can I make the most out of what I got?

[Cornerdealy]

just bumpin this before i go to bed.

[digitaloutsider]

I've got a good fix. Take the engine out, and put an L67 in. Problem solved. I'm fed up with 3.1/3100's. They need to all burn in hell.

[EurosportZ34]

Hrmmm....well actually you got a pretty peppy engine there. The 3100 is a very good one (they should get it about right for their 3rd try at it )

 

Try some or all of these...

Performance Plugs/Wires

Motor Mounts

UD Pulley

Performance Chip

True CAI

Port & Polish

Larger TB

 

That should give you suggificant increase in HP!

 

Use parts from the 3400, the engines are similar.

 

EDIT: My opinion...swap to a 3.4 DOHC

[Robby1870]

well, you can get a bigger TB from a 3400 from a minivan (58mm) opposed to your stock 52mm. You probably have slots in your heads for roller rockers, if not roller rockers themselves. I cant remember what years got the 1.6 rollers, but those would be an easy bolt on..sorta. Some sort of exhaust and intake. Do a basic tune-up first if you havent already

[BIGBULS]

Try some or all of these...

 

I have to interject here.........

 

Performance Plugs/Wires

 

No. Don't. GM/AC Delco make good wires and plugs, and I've actually known some GM FWD owners to run SLOWER with aftermarket ignition stuff.

 

Motor Mounts

 

Ok.........this one is good......FFP makes a nice billet aluminum dogbone with poly bushings.

 

UD Pulley

 

Another good one...FFP is again the choice of champions You can also add a 3800 altenator pulley for a touch more go power (1hp or so)............not really a good idea if you have a big stereo though.

 

Performance Chip

 

Oops.............no such thing for the 3100. Go and bug DHP if you have a 96+ car (they are prototyping Monte Carlo PCM's right now), or put up with a half-ass tune from Fastchip that is basically a governor delete and shiftpoint changer (this helps a bit).

 

True CAI

 

Ok....another good one.

 

Port & Polish

 

But this on the other hand................NOT a good one where power to $$ ratio is concerned. Doing headwork AND upper and lower IM's AND TB are good for 6-8whp COMBINED. Way too much work and $$ for fuck-all of a gain.

 

Larger TB

 

This one is ok (even though it only makes a hp or two) because you can get one from a 3400 Minivan for cheap $$. 56mm (vs your stock 52mm) and an EASY linkage swap.

 

That should give you suggificant increase in HP!

 

15whp or so from I/TB/UDP/Exhaust. That's like a 12% gain............pretty noticeable, and ALL of it will transfer over if you do a 3400 swap later on.

 

EDIT: My opinion...swap to a 3.4 DOHC

 

Nope.............I dissagree...........a 3400 swap yields barely slower 1/4 mile times and is SO much easier and cheaper. Not to mention ALL of the above parts wok on one (unlike the LQ1).

[BIGBULS]

Oh.............and a 2.5in MANDREL bent exhaust (ask 89GPSE for what parts you need bend-wise).

 

Also, be sure to use straight-through, perforated core mufflers such as Borla, Magnaflow, or Dynomax Ultraflows if you want maximum performance.............NOT chambered stuff like Flowmasters.

 

And do it from your exhaust manfifold collector back.....not just a catback.

 

And cutting of your cat isn't worth shit............get a high-flow one if you want the extra 1-2hp over stock.

 

 

 

 

 

BTW...........some may disagree with my choice of 2.5in (compared to 2.25), but it IS the ideal size if you do a 3400 swap later on.

[Cornerdealy]

thanks guys i appreciate all the help.

 

The UDP and Dogbones were at the top of my list.

 

I am getting a full tune up in a week or so

 

What mini vans had the bigger TB's? and were they 58 or 56 mm?

 

I guess I could brainstorm a true CAI, but most likely that means moving the battery to the trunk right?

 

I was toying with the idead of doing P&Ping, but like BIGBULS said, I don't think it's worth the money.

 

How easy is a 3400 swap? Is it as simple as pull the 3100 and pop the 3400 right in? Or are there other modifications that must be done? And how much does it cost? The reason I'm avoiding dropping in an l67 is because it costs too much, not to mention i would have to hire someone to do it for me.

[Cornerdealy]

also, what's involved in a 3400 top end swap? Like If I just wanted to swap the intake manifolds from a 3400 onto mine? Will it just bolt right up or not?

[EurosportZ34]

Nope.............I dissagree...........a 3400 swap yields barely slower 1/4 mile times and is SO much easier and cheaper. Not to mention ALL of the above parts wok on one (unlike the LQ1).

 

So you shoot down all my ideas, BIGBULS, and yet all you come up with is swapping the motor? Remember that he doesn't want to swap it...just yet.

Basically bolt on stuff. What can I add/change to get the most out of it?

I'm not expecting huge HP gains at all. I know there isn't a lot to do short of a complete engine swap, but how can I make the most out of what I got?

 

[BIGBULS]

So you shoot down all my ideas, BIGBULS, and yet all you come up with is swapping the motor? Remember that he doesn't want to swap it...just yet.

 

Ah, but I didn't shoot down ALL you're ideas......

 

And a 3400 swap is dead easy compared to an LQ1.

 

You use the SAME PCM, and ALL of the mods will carry over.

 

As for the TB..........use one off of a 3400 Minivan (Montana, Venture, Silouette), and yes, it's 56mm, not 58.

 

GO to http://www.3400swap.com to find out ALL details.

 

On a 96+ 3100 the swap is *almost* a direct bolt-in, but on 94-95 there a a couple of extra (small) things to be done. In all, it isn't a very hard swap, and you gain 20hp and 20+ lb/ft..............not bad when the engine can be had for as low as $200 (most are a little more.............400ish seems average).

 

 

 

As an idea of performance...........a couple guys on MyMonte have 3400's in the Monte LS's (Germ and Manticor).............one runs 15.6XX and the other 15.9XX............like I said, almost as fast as an LQ1.

[93CutlassSupreme]

 

Also, be sure to use straight-through, perforated core mufflers such as Borla, Magnaflow, or Dynomax Ultraflows if you want maximum performance.............NOT chambered stuff like Flowmasters.

 

 

 

i still don't understand how this is restrictive in any way.

 

show me dyno results showing that straight-through mufflers add more power than flowmasters, and then i will believe your claims.

 

becides, no straight-through muffler sounds like a flowmaster, and don't say that bullshit about flows being raspy, as i've already proven that flows on a 3.1 don't.

 

http://home.comcast.net/~jmlumpkin/93CutlassSupremeFlowmaster40Exhaust.wmv

[rudefyet]

I suggest

 

1. If you are overweight go on a diet

 

2. Rip everything possible out of the car...and never drive with more then half a tank of gas

 

3. If all else fails try NAWZ...and make sure you use insane amounts so you can fry your pistons and swap in something else

 

But seriously...little things at first like

 

1. Exshaust, CAI, UD Pulley...etc..

 

2. Port and Polish job, lighter valves, stiffer valve springs, port out the intake manifold

 

3. Forced Induction of some sort

[Guest Anonymous]

If you are really looking to waste time, I'd turn towards the interior... if you dont have a HUD, put one in, and I suggest moding a 88-93 DIC into a 94-96 Console- they look awesome in the newer interior and are easy to wire. Also, consider a 'PONTIAC' or 'GRAND PRIX' windshield banner.

Thats my two cents anyway, I'd rather jazz up the inside and outside then tinkering with the engine.

[Canada]

You don't understand how it can be restrictive? How can it NOT be restrictive? Look at it........theres huge baffles in the way.

 

Going to a straight through muffler isn't going to make a gain noticeable by B.U.T.T. dynos..........only about 1-2 realistic horsepower....most likely at high rpms......but if you are building an exhaust for performance....why not do it right?

 

And I have heard enough Quad 4s, 3.1L MPFIs, 3100 SFIs at BerettaFest with chambered mufflers to know they sound like shit. Very bad.

[93CutlassSupreme]

You don't understand how it can be restrictive? How can it NOT be restrictive? Look at it........theres huge baffles in the way.

have you ever seen a flowmaster cut open? those baffles arn't as big as they look.

 

And I have heard enough Quad 4s, 3.1L MPFIs, 3100 SFIs at BerettaFest with chambered mufflers to know they sound like shit. Very bad.

 

i guess you didn't listen to that clip

[BIGBULS]

 

i still don't understand how this is restrictive in any way.

 

show me dyno results showing that straight-through mufflers add more power than flowmasters, and then i will believe your claims.

 

becides, no straight-through muffler sounds like a flowmaster, and don't say that bullshit about flows being raspy, as i've already proven that flows on a 3.1 don't.

 

http://home.comcast.net/~jmlumpkin/93CutlassSupremeFlowmaster40Exhaust.wmv

 

You don't see a resriction when the exhaust flow is routed in about 8 different directions just on a single pass through a muffler?

 

Strangely enough ( ), Dynomax lists a comparison of their Ultraflow vs a Flowmaster (chambered), a Borla (another straight-through) and a Edelbrock (yet another straight-through......but with a kind of goofy core design):

 

 

This is MAX flow, but it DOES show how restrictive each design is......

 

 

 

 

Don't want to believe a manufacturers' marketing claims?

 

Ok...........how about this:

 

Beretta #1.............1995 3100 V6 with CAI, FFP UDP and 2.5in press bent exhaust with Flowmaster Chambered muffler (stock vs modded).

 

 

Beretta #2...............1996 3100 V6 with WAI, FFP UDP and 2.25in mandrel bent exhaust with Dynomax Ultraflow Straight-through muffler (stock airbox vs K&N drop-in vs RSM WAI.....ALL have exhaust and UDP).

 

 

Now.............other dynos have proven that there is no real peak power difference between a WAI and a CAI, and BOTH car's have the SAME UDP.............but car #2 had a much better designed exhaust (and it's possible the OBDII PCM does a better job of adapting to mods).

 

Even counting differences in from car to car (and PCM adaptability), the 96 (#2) has a CLEAR advantage..........ESPECIALLY up near the rev limiter. And this is all from an engine rated 5hp LOWER by GM than Beretta #1.

 

 

 

Seems to me that this is something of a telling point against chambered mufflers (and non madrel bent piping).

 

Obviously I have NOT presented any independent testing on the SAME car to show that chabered mufflers are X hp worse than straight-throughs...............but the evidence (as well as common sense) certainly points to chambered mufflers being "worse" where flow/power are concerned.

 

 

 

 

As for sound............personally, *I* think just about all 60 deg OHV V6's sound pretty similar..........regardless if they have a chambered or striaght-through muffler (although non resonated straight-throughs crackle more).

[93CutlassSupreme]

like you said bigbulls, you can't compare a press bent exhaust to a mandrel bent exhaust. there's part of the difference right there, if not most of it.

 

i highly doubt a muffler difference was enough to change the power and torque curves that much

[BIGBULS]

like you said bigbulls, you can't compare a press bent exhaust to a mandrel bent exhaust. there's part of the difference right there, if not most of it.

 

i highly doubt a muffler difference was enough to change the power and torque curves that much

 

You make a valid point that it was a comparison of two different pipe bending methods............but you must also remember that car #1 had 2.5in piping and car #2 had 2.25in.............this should even things up a little on it's own.

 

But then there is the state of tune the car was in, and the fact that they were two different dynos (the same model [Dynojet 248C], but two DIFFERENT dynos)...............still, notice how close the power curve is at lower rpm ( VERY similar peak torque figures)...........it's only up at higher rpm that the non-mandrel bent exhaust (and Flowmaster equiped) Beretta starts to fall behind.....

 

 

 

I'll also admit that the difference between a chambered muffler and a straight-through might only be 1.5 or 2hp, but when you are only talking about an overall gain of 6-7hp from an exhaust............

 

 

 

 

MY thought is this: If you want sound or are willing to trade some performance (possibly as much as half of your total exhaust gains), go ahead and get a chbered muffler (or whatever YOU like the sound of) and maybe even press/crush bent piping..............if you want MAXIMUM performance (and you can still get good sound ), get straight-through mufflers and MANDREL bent piping.

 

It's that simple.

[93CutlassSupreme]

Obviously I have NOT presented any independent testing on the SAME car to show that chabered mufflers are X hp worse than straight-throughs...

 

does anyone have these results?

[cutsup1996]

sucks for me, nobody in North Carolina does mandrel bending for exhaust, trust me I've asked all over, damn!

[BIGBULS]

Obviously I have NOT presented any independent testing on the SAME car to show that chabered mufflers are X hp worse than straight-throughs...

 

does anyone have these results?

 

Outside of a Hotrod magazine test of like a dozen different mufflers on a 350ish whp 5.0, I've NEVER seen anybody do a direct comparison.............

 

Unfortunately.