BIGBULS Posted May 10, 2004 Report Share Posted May 10, 2004 So has anybody asctually ever dynoed a TGP? Particularly a stock one? I'm kind of looking for any GM FWD V6 dyno sources, and was just interested about the TGP's........... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacktgp90 Posted May 10, 2004 Report Share Posted May 10, 2004 don't quote me, but i was reading a post, i think it was in netavalanche, they got like 240 to 250 hp, and something like 280ftlb. that was a chipped car though, and i believe the motor was swapped into an olds i believe. might have been malibuolds. like i said, don't quote me on that, it was a while ago. but i do believe it was on netavalanche, so you could go on and do a search to see. netavalanche.com/tgp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mfewtrail Posted May 10, 2004 Report Share Posted May 10, 2004 don't quote me, but i was reading a post, i think it was in netavalanche, they got like 240 to 250 hp, and something like 280ftlb. that was a chipped car though, and i believe the motor was swapped into an olds i believe. might have been malibuolds. like i said, don't quote me on that, it was a while ago. but i do believe it was on netavalanche, so you could go on and do a search to see.netavalanche.com/tgp There was/is a very similar topic about this at the netavalanche board or either here(can't remember). I don't think Jason's(Eclipse5302 on the board) Cutlass put down quite that much to the wheels..but I could be wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
god910 Posted May 10, 2004 Report Share Posted May 10, 2004 I'm taking the auto to Lafayette as soon as I get the cooling system kinks worked out. I'll also be taking my adapter and a stock .bin to baseline. Then I'll be putting in my TG160 and my Ractive filter on the turbo. To see what kind of difference just the two (w/ a good x-over that is) will net. So, stock box, stock chip vs. TG160 and open filter. Should be interesting. And it's only gonna cost me $100. 8) I suspect mid-late July, as I am not in a hurry. (And I get 2 weeks off for July 4th (Paid) Woot, UAW)) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BIGBULS Posted May 10, 2004 Author Report Share Posted May 10, 2004 Nice............be sure to post your results (the charts too once you get them scanned in). One quick question............the Ractive cone filter.........is it an actual cotton-gauze OILED filter (a washable/reusable one) like a K&N, or is it just a NON oiled gauze matrix setup like the cheapo APC and Autozone filters (which flow like SHIT)? Just some info I've been wondering about........... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbtk2 Posted May 10, 2004 Report Share Posted May 10, 2004 I dynoed my TSTE when all it had was a K&N filter, no cat, and magnaflow mufflers. It pulled 182.2whp...I'm not sure about the torque though because the guy couldn't get the RPMs working. We dynoed the TGP also, and it has all the same stuff only it has a TopGun 160 chip and it only pulled 189whp and 230ft.lbs...but I don't think the engine was fully warmed up, so I'm pretty sure it wasn't getting full boost. But the power curve was pretty flat, whereas the power curve for my STE was very peaky. Shawn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BIGBULS Posted May 10, 2004 Author Report Share Posted May 10, 2004 You don't happen to have either chart online anywhere do you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbtk2 Posted May 10, 2004 Report Share Posted May 10, 2004 You don't happen to have either chart online anywhere do you? No, but I could post them on here tonight when I get home if you would like. Shawn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BIGBULS Posted May 10, 2004 Author Report Share Posted May 10, 2004 You don't happen to have either chart online anywhere do you? No, but I could post them on here tonight when I get home if you would like. Shawn Yes please Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbtk2 Posted May 11, 2004 Report Share Posted May 11, 2004 For some reason I can't find the chart for the TGP. I found the one for the STE but I'm gonna look some more and try to post them at the same time. If I can't find it, then I will just post the one. Shawn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mfewtrail Posted May 11, 2004 Report Share Posted May 11, 2004 don't quote me, but i was reading a post, i think it was in netavalanche, they got like 240 to 250 hp, and something like 280ftlb. that was a chipped car though, and i believe the motor was swapped into an olds i believe. might have been malibuolds. like i said, don't quote me on that, it was a while ago. but i do believe it was on netavalanche, so you could go on and do a search to see.netavalanche.com/tgp You're referring to Eclipse5302 on this board..he has 240hp and 280 ft-lb's of torque listed as the stock L67 power(he L67 swapped his badass Cutty) output. I just took a look at his site and his cutty made 202.8 HP and 275.7 ft lbs at the wheels on the dyno when the 3.1 turbo motor was in it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dkorinko Posted May 11, 2004 Report Share Posted May 11, 2004 Mine was dynoed like 4 years ago lol! i think it put down like 202 to the wheels or something like that, i think i even have the chart if anyone wants it???? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacktgp90 Posted May 11, 2004 Report Share Posted May 11, 2004 mfewtrail, that might have been it. i probaly just mixed up the numbers, like i said, i wasn't sure who or how much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
90TGP Posted May 11, 2004 Report Share Posted May 11, 2004 I remember someone made some really high torque numbers on their TGP when they had it dynoed a year or two ago. Made like over 300ft/lbs of torque for some reason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mfewtrail Posted May 12, 2004 Report Share Posted May 12, 2004 I remember someone made some really high torque numbers on their TGP when they had it dynoed a year or two ago. Made like over 300ft/lbs of torque for some reason. I bet he used 2nd gear on the dyno to achieve that torque #. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbtk2 Posted May 12, 2004 Report Share Posted May 12, 2004 I remember someone made some really high torque numbers on their TGP when they had it dynoed a year or two ago. Made like over 300ft/lbs of torque for some reason. I bet he used 2nd gear on the dyno to achieve that torque #. Yup...thats what I'm thinking. With just my air filter, no cat, and magnaflows (stock chip, etc...) I made like 276wtq. in 2nd gear. But in 3rd gear the number would definately be lower. I can definately see how it would be very easy to make over 300wtq. with a chip and some other minor mods in 2nd gear. Shawn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BIGBULS Posted May 12, 2004 Author Report Share Posted May 12, 2004 Dynojets at least don't care WHAT gear the car is in.............they calculate torque by measuring hp, and then dividing by rpm. So..............I'm assuming that the 300+ lb/ft chart was on a Mustang Dyno or somesuch? Either way...........I STILL haven't seen any charts as yet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbtk2 Posted May 12, 2004 Report Share Posted May 12, 2004 Dynojets at least don't care WHAT gear the car is in.............they calculate torque by measuring hp, and then dividing by rpm. So..............I'm assuming that the 300+ lb/ft chart was on a Mustang Dyno or somesuch? Either way...........I STILL haven't seen any charts as yet Yes, except that since 2nd gear isn't a 1:1 ratio like 3rd gear, 2nd gear is actually multiplying the torque. So it doesn't matter what the dynojet reads unless the car is in a 1:1 gear....like 3rd for instance. Shawn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BIGBULS Posted May 12, 2004 Author Report Share Posted May 12, 2004 But that's what I'm getting at................Dynojets do NOT actually measure torque.....just hp (torque delivery over time) and rpm (the time part)............they then extrapolate torque from this. And even in 3rd gear (with it's 1:1), you are getting some crazy torque multiplication. Remember, TGP's have a 3.33:1 axle ratio. And then you have to REDUCE that by your tire raduis.........a 245/50R16 has a radius of about 13inches, meaning that actualy torque deliver is lowered from whatever lb/ft you had after the gearing multiplication (since you are have more than a ft of radius). Reasons like this are why I dont like Mustang Dynos that much.............you have to have ALL your info DEAD on for the dyno to be accurate. Dynojets may not be as good for actual tuning, but they ARE a lot easier and more consistant to use. So who has a chart for me? 8) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mfewtrail Posted May 12, 2004 Report Share Posted May 12, 2004 This is a link to Eclipse5302's dyno chart on his 3.1 turbo swapped Cutty(I believe it was a 5spd car as well). http://65.29.179.26/images/dyno-8.jpg his site = http://www.turboSTE.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BIGBULS Posted May 13, 2004 Author Report Share Posted May 13, 2004 Now THAT car has a nice broad powerband............ I AM having a hard time pinning down EXACTLY what mods he had done at the time of the dyno run.................. I *think* he had a 3.0in mandrel bent custom catback (with a poorly chosen muffler), a Top-Gun chip (with more boost?) and a K&N cone. Oh.....and a 5 speed swap that makes the tranny side of things a little more efficient (~16% loss vs ~21-22% for the auto)....... Am I missing anything? Either way, the chip supposedly raises initial boost (which accounts for some of the torque), and I'm sure the exhaust and K&N help out too..............either way, it's a decent setup that just needs a little refinement. So nobody has dynoed a stock TGP/TSTE yet? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff M Posted May 13, 2004 Report Share Posted May 13, 2004 Well, for those that were listening to me being steadfast on the stock intake/cam setup of this engine, this is proof, a big torque hill of power from these long intake runners, that only needs a bigger turbo to get the hp up there as well (and some more torque!). I rest my case (at least until this post fades into the past and/or people still want to do a lot of work with a 3100 intake setup ). Jeff M Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbtk2 Posted May 13, 2004 Report Share Posted May 13, 2004 All of GM's pushrod V6's with power adders and the stock cam have a very flat power curve. Thats just how they are set up. I am actually suprised at how much this powerband falls off at the end compared to what I have seen with the L67's and such. If that car had some higher ratio rocker arms, I would bet that it would have that flat power curve and that it would stay flat longer. For instance, this is the dyno sheet from my dads GTP that has the stock cam with 1.9 rockers. Notice how flat it is...but this one keeps the power all the way until redline. If someone could make some high ratio rocker arms (like 1.8 or 1.9) then the stock cam would be a keeper, but until then .394 lift doesn't seem like much of an option to me. Shawn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff M Posted May 13, 2004 Report Share Posted May 13, 2004 All of GM's pushrod V6's with power adders and the stock cam have a very flat power curve. Thats just how they are set up. I am actually suprised at how much this powerband falls off at the end compared to what I have seen with the L67's and such. If that car had some higher ratio rocker arms, I would bet that it would have that flat power curve and that it would stay flat longer. For instance, this is the dyno sheet from my dads GTP that has the stock cam with 1.9 rockers. Notice how flat it is...but this one keeps the power all the way until redline. If someone could make some high ratio rocker arms (like 1.8 or 1.9) then the stock cam would be a keeper, but until then .394 lift doesn't seem like much of an option to me. Shawn Uhhh , reading back on my post above, just needs a bigger/proper sized turbo, and referencing the post I did on stock head air flow vrs some serious port work and such, heads can be made to flow some serious enough numbers to make this 3.1L a sweet looking dyno/track runner! Also no to doing a cam or rocker upgrade if the heads as well as the stock turbine side of the turbo are the real restrictions, someone needs to take notes . That is some big power gains from just a 1.9 RAR upgrade, bet if he does a smaller pulley and some other tweaks he should smack the 400 mark pretty quick Jeff M Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbtk2 Posted May 13, 2004 Report Share Posted May 13, 2004 I realize that these cars can make a lot of power with the stock cam and rockers and whatnot, but higher ratio rocker arms IN ADDITION to a better exhaust, turbo, etc.... would would be very nice. They are definately going to help bring that power number up. It doesn't just have 1.9 rockers.....It has a couple other mods too. But for the valvetrain all it has is 1.9 rockers, stronger valvesprings, and stronger pushrods. You can't run 12.2's in a GTP with only different rocker arms. Shawn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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