Newbie 3.4 DOHC/5 speed owner

[musthavemuzk]

so are you from Ames or a transplant?

i grew up in Boone. been here in NW,MN since 92.

usually make a couple trips home to see family during the year.

 

good luck with this turbo project.

 

Monty

[93CutlassSupreme]

is it really a pos or is it operater error? :?

 

haha real funny

 

holding the caliper in my hand and using the box in the other had the fucking pistons wouldn't go in, i had to bolt the caliper up to the hub, minus the rotor, and lean into the piston to get it to turn.

[supreme_style21]

is it really a pos or is it operater error? :?

 

haha real funny

 

holding the caliper in my hand and using the box in the other had the fucking pistons wouldn't go in, i had to bolt the caliper up to the hub, minus the rotor, and lean into the piston to get it to turn.

 

Sounds more like the caliper's fault.. not the tools. I had to do the same thing on mine.. the tool works great.. my caliper was a pile.

[Canada]

I'm a transplant.........I sort of like it here (Ames) though......I may stick around.

 

So YOU where the one with the black Z34.............well then....cool and stuff.

[Canada]

Started playing around with compressor charts tonight.......yeah, forget the TO4B. Seems as if a T3 60 or Super 60 would work best.......

 

First vertical line is 4k rpm, the second is 7k rpm.....in retrospec I could of done all three levels on one compressor chart, but that gets to be a lot of lines.

 

T3 60, 6 psi...

 

T3 60, 10 psi...

 

T3 60, 15 psi...

 

Note how much not bigger the "Super" 60 is.

 

T3 Super 60, 6 psi...

 

T3 Super 60, 10 psi...

 

T3 Super 60, 15 psi...

 

I *think* this is the T04B everyone uses, not sure.....still to big....

 

TO4B 60-1, 6 psi...

 

TO4B 60-1, 10 psi...

 

TO4B 60-1, 15 psi...

 

So, inconclusion, the TO4B is a big ####ing turbo. You could make it work with a small turbine........but why? You'd be better off with a smaller compressor.

 

The T3 60 (or Super 60) seems like a good fit.......hell, even at 5 psi, you are barely getting into the most efficent range of the turbo........and at a insanely high 15 psi....its not past the inner efficency circle.

[brian89gp]

http://www.brian89gp.com/misc/turbo%20flow%20maps/

TimG's charts are pretty close to mine there, his calculations for airflow are just a smigin below what I have.

 

Where and how are you figuring airflow? It seems quite low.

 

The T3 has been used on the 3.4 in one or two Fiero's. Thing to remember is that at that airflow requirement the compressor side will be pretty much maxed out. On the turbine side you have to be absolutely certain to get the largest trim or as close as possible to it. If you don't you'll hit a wall somewhere in the RPM/boost range where the exhaust just won't flow anymore.

 

Just as a side note, the T4 series is used regularly in the Supra (3.0L DOHC) and depending on the turbine AR and trim its usually spooled by 3-4k. Also there is a 60-1 on a SHO (3.2L DOHC) that has excellent drivability. The whole key is to get the turbine side matched up as best you can.

[Vegeta]

You should buy that guys car cause he doesn't know shit about it, or give a shit about it either. 300 HP can be done NA, I am certain on it. If you are talking to the wheels, then boost will be the only means to make it streetable without using a much lighter car.

[93CutlassSupreme]

is it really a pos or is it operater error? :?

 

haha real funny

 

holding the caliper in my hand and using the box in the other had the fucking pistons wouldn't go in, i had to bolt the caliper up to the hub, minus the rotor, and lean into the piston to get it to turn.

 

Sounds more like the caliper's fault.. not the tools. I had to do the same thing on mine.. the tool works great.. my caliper was a pile.

 

i'd say both, sure the brakes are a piece of shit, but then the goal of any tool is to do the job as quickly and using the least amount of energy possible, which this box pos fails to do

[Canada]

I am about 80% sure that I am going to get it..........I am going to go to the bank thursday to talk to the loan officer. I plan on borrowing enough to pay for the car, taxes, insurance, and enough to getting it running strong (timing belt, intake gaskets, possibly head gaskets) (being in ASEP makes this easy for me). I'll pry buy a few bolt-ons (FFP chip, UDP, and mount) and if the clutch needs replacement, I'll talk to clutchmasters....they have a shop near me.

 

We assumed 80% VE for those graphs.........we really didn't know what it was........I'm sure its much lower than 80% at redline, and could very well be higher than that at 4k.

 

Does anyone know the correct VE at different rpm?

 

Who are you Vegeta? How do you know BIGBULS? I'm curious as to which car forum you ran into him on. He is Captain Nissan now anyways.

[Z34door]

the box is a piece of shit. to get mine back in i needed the snap on tool that slides up into the caliper and uses better force to get it in.

[93CutlassSupreme]

the box is a piece of shit. to get mine back in i needed the snap on tool that slides up into the caliper and uses better force to get it in.

 

none of the auto parts stores around here know what i'm talking about when i ask for the other tool for rear disk brakes. anyone have a picture or anything like that?

[Vegeta]

gmpt.net and mymonte.com. If he is all about the nissan, he needs to give up trying to talk about the 3.4 DOHC. Im sappyse107 on other forums btw. I know you from 60v6 and bnet.

[Canada]

Brian, do you have a copy of a turbo map for that turbo? My source (http://not2fast.wryday.com/turbo/maps/) doesn't have one.

[brian89gp]

Which turbo?

[Canada]

The Toyota CT26 or whatever you are currently using........actually, nevermind, that thing is TINY.........its used on MR2s..........they have a 2 liter......and OEM turbos are fairly conservitive.

 

The math we used involved converting engine displacement to lbs/min (this way you can leave temp out of the picture, because a pound of air weighs a pound no matter if its 10 or 10,000 degrees)......and then using rpm, VE, and boost to find the end result.

 

We assumed 80% VE accross the rpm band...........what did you use? I'm guessing you used 100%, or completely forgot to factor that in.

 

The above charts where made using a displacement of 3.4L instead of 3350 cc.....oh well.

[brian89gp]

I got the CT26 that was used on the supra's. 6cyl 3.0 DOHC. Stock they say its good for 350hp. Its got some sort of T4 compressor wheel on it though, I'll measure it the next time I have it out.

 

What I used:

80*F air temp

70% air-air intercooler efficiency

85% VE

65% compressor efficiency

3.622" bore

3.3122" stroke

6 cylinders

full boost at 4k

redline at 7k

 

Using those calcs with the 60-1, 12psi @ 4k is right by the surge line and 12psi @ 7k is in the sweet spot of the map.

 

with the super 60, 12psi @ 4k is off to the right of the efficiency range and 12psi @ 7k isn't even on the chart.

 

If I use a max boost of 6psi both flow charts have similar results. The 60-1 is very low on the efficiency range and the super 60 still has 4k on the sweet spot. To get the redline on the super 60 chart it needs to be around 5k.

 

FYI, the T3 "super 60 trim" is considered to be one of the ideal performance/streetable turbos' on the 1.9L DOHC Saturn engine.

[brian89gp]

And yes you should take air temp into consideration. From engine displacement and VE you will find CFM which you then have to convert to lb/min. 500CFM @ 20* and 500CFM @ 90*, which do you think weighs more? Sea level also comes into play here as does humidity, but they don't make much of a difference in the calculation so you can usually ignore them.

 

If you go by some calculations that ignore temp they usually factor in the common conversion rate (68*F, sea level, 36% humidity).

[Canada]

Looks like we found some of the difference in numbers.......you used a 5% higher VE.

 

What is the A/R of turbine are they using on the Saturns? .48? That would pry be a good size for that motor. Remember........I'll most likely be using the .63 A/R turbine.........which is found in Buick Grand Nationals.

 

Can you show me your equations for how you calculated mass air flow?

[loominaz34]

On the topic of pushing pistons back into our calipers; may I suggest a

C-clamp? Thats what I did on mine and I had no problems. Then again mine weren't rusted at all.

[dykz34]

You aren't supposed to use a C-clamp because you need to ROTATE the piston as you push it back in... But, it might have worked for you.

[Guest TurboSedan]

i have never used the box tool. my Haynes manual actually shows a pic of someone using a long nose pliers as a spanner tool to turn the piston back in. that's what i did and it worked great that way. it was tough at first but got easier to turn the farther the piston went. this was for '94+ rear calipers tho, i'm not sure if '88-'93 are the same way.

[mihela816]

The 88-93 rear pistons are much harder to turn in than the 94+ style. I used an 18mm wrench with a vice-grip on the end at a 90* angle as a lever. I used the end of the wrench as a spanner.

[acke61]

this tool is usually a little easier to use, but essentially the same thing...you can put a ratchet on it and turn it but being a flat tool it actually stays where its supposed to when you turn it

 

 

http://www.napaonline.com/cgi-bin/ncommerce3/ExecMacro/NAPAonline/search_results_product_detail.d2w/report?prrfnbr=15612779&prmenbr=5806&usrcommgrpid=

[93CutlassSupreme]

pep boys has the correct tool for the 88-93 rear brakes, when i rent it friday i'll take some pictures if you guys want

 

it's kinda like a vice, and you twist a bolt in, which in turns pushes the caliper in.

[BIGBULS]

gmpt.net and mymonte.com. If he is all about the nissan, he needs to give up trying to talk about the 3.4 DOHC. Im sappyse107 on other forums btw. I know you from 60v6 and bnet.

 

What, you are going to bash me and say I don't know shit about my car because I don't agree with YOU? Just because *I* don't think eliminating the cat is worth more than 2hp (and you can't prove me wrong), or because one of your friend's can't read a Dyno chart and thinks that his K&N drop-in is 3000% better than a K&N cone (which he probably placed 2inches from the crossover), or that I don't think a larger TB is worth much (go find me a dyno chart......oops, you don't have one) ???

 

Nice job dipshit.

 

I KNOW you are reasonably smart and have some good ideas, but trying to say that I am NOT is pretty dumb, especially when I'm right about 99.9% of the time.

 

As for the 3.4L DOHC, I'll admit that I'm not 100% up to date on everything being done to them (my intrest in the engine waned around the time TDC went out of business), but I still know a lot more than the average douchebag on the street............so stop trying to make out that is who I am.

 

 

 

 

As for my little Nissan's (now just one....just sold the SE-R), either of them are as fast or faster in stock form than a 3.4L DOHC...........even a 5 speed. I know..........I own both. Not to mention the engine has FAR more potential on stock internals than a 3.4L DOHC EVER dreamed of.

 

And you wonder why I am selling the 3.4........

 

 

 

 

 

 

As for the subject at hand, I'm kind of interested to re-do Canada's calculations (I wasn't there the first time around) for the TO4B's. I still think this car can make in excess of 275whp on low boost (5-8psi). I'm just a little worried about the tranny, the clutch and the rods being able to take it.