TGPilot Posted November 27, 2002 Report Share Posted November 27, 2002 I was also thinking about removing the heater hoses that go to the throttle body so that the air is not heated going into the intake. I am afraid that this will cause a major lean condition, but any input would be greatly appreciated... 8) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted November 27, 2002 Report Share Posted November 27, 2002 I was going to try that also. I was told it wouldn't make enough of a difference to even bother. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iTurbo Posted November 27, 2002 Report Share Posted November 27, 2002 I *seriously* doubt it would create a lean condition. The air temp sensor in the air box or manifold does not have that much authority over the fuel curve. If I'm not mistaken, the IAT (incoming air temp) is located on the intake manifold, so any change in the incoming air temp created by plugging or removing those hoses will be accounted for. I would do it. Except I live in Wyoming and it is cold out, and the car would take forever to warm up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TGPilot Posted November 27, 2002 Author Report Share Posted November 27, 2002 iTurbo... Why do you say it would take longer to warm up? 8) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iTurbo Posted November 27, 2002 Report Share Posted November 27, 2002 Because the coolant wouldn't be warming the throttle body if those heater hoses were gone. The car would take longer to warm up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TurboSedan Posted November 27, 2002 Report Share Posted November 27, 2002 mine are plugged, but i seriously doubt it makes any increase in performance. i am going to reconnect the lines soon, at least for winter. it probably takes longer to warm up because there is simply no warm coolant going to the throttle body when you plug them. i think that's the only reason they are there acually. joshua Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TGPilot Posted November 27, 2002 Author Report Share Posted November 27, 2002 Well I think the purpose of the Throttle Body Heater is to warm the air going into the intake. When you have warm air it is less dense, therefore it would be a rich condition. When the Computer corrects for the rich condition it will lean out the fuel causing you to burn less fuel... 8) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted November 27, 2002 Report Share Posted November 27, 2002 Actually the purpose of the coolant lines is to keep the butterfly from freezing up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iTurbo Posted November 27, 2002 Report Share Posted November 27, 2002 And colder air is less prone to detonation. Warm air doesn't mean you have a rich condition. You could have hot air entering your engine, and be very rich, and still have detonation. Now if the computer corrects for this slightly colder air (via IAT sensor), it will make the fuel curve slightly richer. Isn't that why GM put the IAT sensor on the intake manifold on the TGP? It accounts for the intercooler lowering the incoming air temp and richens the mixture to account for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TGPilot Posted November 27, 2002 Author Report Share Posted November 27, 2002 And colder air is less prone to detonation. Warm air doesn't mean you have a rich condition. You could have hot air entering your engine, and be very rich, and still have detonation. iTurbo... I completely agree with you..but try this In a carborated car the hotter the air the richer you run as the Main jet and idle jets are not adjustable. In a computer controlled Fuel Injected car your rich/lean conditions are controlled by the computer. Right? So if you have warm air going into the intake and the MAT (Manifold Air Temp) sensor sees this it will lean out the mixture. Right? So if I disconnect the Throttle Body heater the MAT sensor should see it as colder air and give a Richer mixture than if it was heated air. Right? I'm just thinking while I'm typing... 8) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iTurbo Posted November 27, 2002 Report Share Posted November 27, 2002 Yes, that is how I see it. I have a hunch that the MAT sensor doesn't have much authority anyway. The O2 feedback probably keeps everything in check just fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TGPilot Posted November 27, 2002 Author Report Share Posted November 27, 2002 Very true! I think I am going to give it a whirl and see what happens!! So who knows if that can be just blocked off or does it need to be a closed loop? Also..where would a man find a 180* thermostat for the TGP motor? 8) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedZMonte Posted November 27, 2002 Report Share Posted November 27, 2002 Actually the purpose of the coolant lines is to keep the butterfly from freezing up. Exactly.. Performance wise it makes LITTLE to NO differnece. Waste of time in my opinion. RedZ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedZMonte Posted November 27, 2002 Report Share Posted November 27, 2002 Very true! I think I am going to give it a whirl and see what happens!! So who knows if that can be just blocked off or does it need to be a closed loop? Also..where would a man find a 180* thermostat for the TGP motor? 8) Just block it if you do it.. it is basicly the same thing as the New GTP's do with the T/B spacer.. don't spend more the $10 on it or you will be dissapointed. RedZ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eclipse5302 Posted November 27, 2002 Report Share Posted November 27, 2002 I did it a while ago. I took a peice of pre bent 90 degree hose and connected the two pipes that connect to it. I wouldn't suggest plugging the pipes, I think they need to have coolant flowing through them to other parts. Just disconnect the TB pipes, and connect the two pipes with some hose (not the TB pipes, the supply/return pipes). It has worked just fine for me, and I haven't seen any performance gain. RedZ is right, don't waste too much cash on it or you will be disappointed. Jason Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TGPilot Posted November 27, 2002 Author Report Share Posted November 27, 2002 I understand that I won't be set back any harder in my seat, but if it is not needed and will help slightly more to reduce detonation...I will give it a go! Thanks for everyone's input...much appreciated!! 8) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris A Posted November 28, 2002 Report Share Posted November 28, 2002 You're right, the coolant does need to flow, as a bypass for when the Tstat is closed. But there are two paths for it to take on the 3.1 motor. At the location under the throttle body, hotter water leaves the intake manifold. It can go to the throttle body, thru the Tstat or through the heater core. It returns through the lower rad hose, where the other heater hose comes in, and the throttle body pipe comes across the front of the intake, up the vavle cover and into the water pump. The only reason for that coolant hose on a NA car is to return the coolant from the throttle body. So as far as I can tell the coolant will bypass through the heater core if the TB lines are blocked and not routed into each other. The only problem I haven't checked into yet is the two state thermostat which has something to do with the heater lines. I don't know if this blocks off the flow to the heater core or not. Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TurboSedan Posted November 28, 2002 Report Share Posted November 28, 2002 mine are just blocked with heater plugs. it's been like that for 13,000 miles with no problems thus far. after reading this thread i think i'm going to connect the heater lines back up to the throttle body this week... joshua Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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