dbtk2 Posted April 10, 2004 Report Share Posted April 10, 2004 I decided to try to do an idle learn on my TSTE because it wouldn't run most of the time without my foot on the gas, and it would stall often on decelleration. So I pulled the ECM fuse for like 30 seconds and then put it back in. Started the car up (the car NEVER starts unless my foot is on the gas and I knew this was going to be a problem) and i tried ~20 times to get it to start without my foot on the gas but I couldn't, so finally I put my foot on the gas and it started right up, I threw it into gear and slowly let my foot off the gas (took about 10 seconds) and it ran fine for the 5 minutes it was running before I shut it off to restart it again. I let it sit for ~10 seconds and started it back up. It wouldn't start without my foot on the gas this time either, so I did the same thing, only this time it wouldn't stay running when I took my foot off the gas. It stalled about 5 times before I finally got my foot off the gas without it stalling. Then it ran for about 30 seconds and started surging between 800 & 900rpms. The longer it ran the more it would surge and the lower the rpms would go. After about 2 minutes it was at 700rpms and was surging up to 1000rpms. Then the SES light came on and the car started surging even more and running even rougher. It was running so rough it almost stalled every time it surged so then I lightly put my foot on the gas to bring the revs up to a constant 900 and then let my foot off and it was still surging but not quite as much anymore. I pretty much decided about 4 minutes into this that the idle learn wasn't really working very well, so I put the car in park (let it keep running) and went inside and got my code reader. Shut the car off and hooked it up and it read a code 45 (rich exhaust). I am assuming that this is due to my stock crossover making my 02 sensor go bad? How much do 02 sensors run and where can I get one? I know its just gonna go bad again, but this car is running worse and worse and worse every time I drive it, and if I put in a new 02 sensor, the car has to run better for at least another month (its been getting marginally worse over the last 3 months so I would bet it would probably last that long again, but just lately to the point where its been stalling a lot and not running right). Also, does my problem sound like it is even being caused by the 02 sensor? I figured it was, but I'm not 100% sure. Does anybody know any other things that could be causing this? Any simple temporary fixes until I can afford a cro$$over? Thanks, Shawn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RareGMFan Posted April 10, 2004 Report Share Posted April 10, 2004 I'm sure an 02 sensor wouldn't hurt, but....did you ever try the Idle Air Control (IAC) like I mentioned before? Good way to test that is to unplug it and try starting it. It will go to default settings. If it runs with the IAC unplugged, then that confirms it. Try that first. As for the 02 sensor, you can pick one up at just about any parts store for around $20-$25 (for a non Delco one). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
god910 Posted April 10, 2004 Report Share Posted April 10, 2004 You CAN'T touch the gas pedal while learning an idle. Also, I don't know if you caught it earlier, but I couldn't get it to lose the idle w/ the ecm fuse. I just pulled the neg. batt. term. and let it sit for awhile. I dont' think that's your problem, but that's how I do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robby1870 Posted April 10, 2004 Report Share Posted April 10, 2004 You CAN'T touch the gas pedal while learning an idle. Also, I don't know if you caught it earlier, but I couldn't get it to lose the idle w/ the ecm fuse. I just pulled the neg. batt. term. and let it sit for awhile. I dont' think that's your problem, but that's how I do it. Yeah......I dont think 30secs is long enough. Take the neg battery cable off, go get a soda, listen to a couple of songs, smoke a cigarette, whatever, as long as it takes 10min, then hook it back up and try it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TurboGTU Posted April 10, 2004 Report Share Posted April 10, 2004 Even with the scrued up x-over pipe with the overich condition on the 2.8 turbo...I had no problem with Idle. I did have a new IAC. But when I didn't ..I would relearn Idle by turning the key foward without cranking for like 10 sec..then shuting it off for anonhter 15sec...then doing it againg 2 more times.. then turning off the the car completely..I would disconect the IAC and turn on the car and adjusted the idle scrue to 650rpm (all this on a warm engine) . I would also unlusen the TPS to adjust it to lower or higher rpm..depending if she wanted to give out. When she was steady at 650-700 rpm...I would then shut it off and plug the IAC. Turn it on and would rise itself to 1000 rpm and then would automaticly stay steady at 650-800 rpm. Hope that helps some. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skalor Posted April 10, 2004 Report Share Posted April 10, 2004 I wouldn't touch the idle screw as that's the IACs job to control the idle rpm. You have another problem that needs to be fixed before you can even worry about idle learning it. So, you have to hold the gas down when you start it, do you do this everytime?? Holding the gas pedal down while starting it puts the computer in 'clear flood' mode. Maybe you have leaky injectors as that could be why it's so hard to start. I would search for leaking injectors as there is a way to ohm them without taking off the upper plenum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbtk2 Posted April 10, 2004 Author Report Share Posted April 10, 2004 I'm sure an 02 sensor wouldn't hurt, but....did you ever try the Idle Air Control (IAC) like I mentioned before? Good way to test that is to unplug it and try starting it. It will go to default settings. If it runs with the IAC unplugged, then that confirms it. Try that first. As for the 02 sensor, you can pick one up at just about any parts store for around $20-$25 (for a non Delco one). I don't remember which one that was but I know I cleaned it (I think its the one in the throttle body right???). I cleaned the sensor on the left side of the intake manifold and the one in the throttle body and it ran OK for a day, and then started giving me problems again. The thing that is really odd is it will run like this most of the time, but every once in a while it will run perfectly fine. Its really really odd. I have to hold my foot on the gas (just barely, its not like I hold it to the floor, I basically rest my foot on the gas, and thats enough) almost everytime. Like I said, every once in a while it will run fine (and when it does appears to be completely random), but most of the time I have to put my foot on the gas. And if it doesn't start the first time then it isn't going to start unless my foot is on the gas. Shawn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbtk2 Posted April 10, 2004 Author Report Share Posted April 10, 2004 Well I went out and decided to try some things to get the car running right. I drove across the street to a church parking lot (its a pretty big parking lot, plenty of room to get up to ~35 and then slow down and stop). So I pull in the parking lot and immediately stop and get the car to idle by itself by slowly letting my foot off the gas. It was idling at like 600rpms and was kind of surging up and down. I shut it off and pulled the plug for the sensor that is on the throttle body. Then I got back in the car and started it up and after a few tries it started without my foot on the gas!!! It started out sputtering at around 500rpms, then it slowly worked its way up to about 750, then I shifted it to drive and after about 2 minutes it worked its way up to ~900. Then I decided to drive it around the parking lot, speeding up to various speeds and stopping and letting it smooth the idle back out (it would surge when I slowed down between 500 & 1200rpms). As soon as it smoothed the idle back out I got up to a different speed and stopped and let it do the same thing. It appeared to be learning this pretty well until I left the parking lot and decided to take the long way through the subdivision home. (requiring me to stop at a few stop signs) The first stop sign I stopped at and the car stalled. Every stop sign after that it stalled. It wasn't getting any better. Finally I got it home and it was idling decent in the driveway, so I decided to start it up and see if it would run by itself. Nope! I tried starting it up about 20 consecutive times and it would not run by itself. So then I decided that I would put my foot on the gas and start it up and try to get it to idle smooth again and then try to start it up by itself. So I turned the key, and nothing happened. I think I overheated the starter!!! So I got out of the car, opened up the hood and plugged the sensor back in. Waited a few minutes and tried to start it up, still nothing. So then I went inside the house, I was pretty pissed at this point, and decided to have a can of spaghetti o's. I ate the spaghetti o's and then i went out and checked the oil (I have been suspecting a blown head gasket lately and wanted to see if maybe there was coolant in the oil and the engine seized), the oil looked normal and was full. So then I got out a big ratchet and 18mm socket and turned the crank pulley over, and the engine turned over so it was not seized up!!! Then I decided (this being about 30 mintues since I tried to start the car last time) to try and start the car again. I turned the key and it started right up without my foot on the gas. (i would've had my foot on the gas but I didn't expect it to start) It was idling very smooth and nicely at right around 950rpms, which seems to be about the perfect idle for that car. Of course I jumped right in, put it in gear and drove it around the block. It was running smoothly, no rpm surging when I slowed down. Idled smooth and at a constant 950rpms every time I stopped. I was definately enjoying it. Then I came back home. I haven't started it back up since because I am scared that it isn't going to do it again. Hopefully it will run like that from now on...we will see. I am pretty happy right now...I'm just hoping my starter doesn't go bad soon. Shawn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
god910 Posted April 11, 2004 Report Share Posted April 11, 2004 Shit, you better hope that you don't cause what is wrong w/ my auto. When it gets hot, I have to pop the hood, and jump a wire that the p/o rigged up to start it under hot conditions. He thinks it's the harness. He's replace 2 starters, the ign. switch, and the Neutral Safety switch. Nothing works. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gearhead43 Posted April 21, 2004 Report Share Posted April 21, 2004 I would take off the TB, take it apart, clean it good. Install all new gaskets, and IAC. .. The IAC might be gumming up bad. and if it's the OEM uint, I'd say its about time for a new one. You can alway throw on a new TPS too. While you have the TB off the car, you can easily do the TB coolant bypass mod too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShockTherapy Posted April 23, 2004 Report Share Posted April 23, 2004 maybe your ecm is just losing it's mind ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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