Cam Gears arent spinning to retime motor...Help

[Jon89le]

Alright, well for starters the car is a '94 Lumina Z34. A few days ago i finished regasketting the motor and now im at the final point of timing. Running into a problem though. The Cam bolts are loose, lockrings out, homemade hold-down tool is on, but the cams still wont spin freely. Im turning the motor over and the cam flats are actually bending the holddown tool i made out of ½" Keystock. Im assuming the cam gears, or cogs if you want to call them, are tight due to rust, dirt, etc. Am i going to have to buy the cam gear puller to break the gears loose? Could it be that the holddown tool isnt strong enough, should i buy the "Real" tool? I just called Kent Moore up and the puller isnt cheap, $113. The Lockdown tools are $85 for the two which id rather buy since i can see myself using them more than the puller. But in any case, id rather not buy any since they would need to be overnighted since i leave for school this weekend and im the one that has the better understanding of timing the motor. (Its my dads car). Any help is REALLY appreciated.

[lukee1982]

I don't know if this will help but imade my hold down tools out 3/4*3/4

[Vegeta]

I dont think you can use the puller, since it doesnt have the hole to insert it, and then slide it over to lock. If the gears dont spin freely on the cams without the lockring or bolt in place, they you will have to tap them off and polish them up and the end of the cams. They should spin pretty easy just sitting on the cam ends.

[Jon89le]

To tap the gears off, would a small block of wood and a rubber mallet do the trick? Im just worried about tapping it out and bending the shaft teh gear sits on.

[brian89gp]

94 car, I assume it has the 94 style cams as well? The lock ring is kinda like a cone?

 

Take a screwdriver and pry up against it the back of the gear, it should make a "tink" sound and be loose.

[Jon89le]

The back of the cam lockrings angle inward so, yes, they do have a slight cone shape to them. By tapping, what do you mean? There is about a quarter inch of space from the back side of the gear to the carrier housing. Is what your saying to put the screwdriver in that spot and tap the gear out?

[Vegeta]

block of wood and a mallet is good. Rubber mallet alone is fine but I too used a block of wood the first time (mine had rust). Now they come right off after the lock ring is pried out:)

[Jon89le]

Am i putting the wood in a position to knock the gear outward though? I tryed looking at the gear to figure out what Brian needed but i couldnt figure it out.

[brian89gp]

from Michael Smiths website

 

It's important to be able to use the tool to hold a cam down, loosen the sprocket/cog, and then be able to turn the motor--which would turn the loosened cam sprocket independent of it's cam. Once you break the cam sprocket's bolt loose, you should coax the sprocket/cog loose --a bit-- by inserting something behind it, and yanking or tapping lightly on it. The first time the cog experiences this, it may be a bit tight to break the hold--and make a little "tink" noise ("tink" noise is optional).

 

http://fiero.cc/fiero-tdc/members/mws/camjob/sprokyank.jpg

 

Hit it with a mallet, block of wood, sledge hammer, whatever. It just needs a little coaxing to tink loose.

[Jon89le]

Alright, thanks a lot. I was using a flat head screwdriver today placed on the inside of the gear and the gear didnt budge. I was using a hammer to hit the 'driver. Ill try it again though...

[Jon89le]

Alright. Well i got the gears off. Prying and hitting the gears wasnt cutting it so i went to Plan-B and ended up having to use a 2arm gear puller. Suckers were a bit rusted. Having another dumb issue though. It might be that im tired and its 3am here. But ill say it anyways. When im going to time the motor, all the front and rear cam flats are up with gears loose. So i bolt up the rear cam gears and remove the holddown tool. I rotate the crank 360* like i think this book is saying but thats only making the rear bank go around back to being flat up. What am i supposed to do to get the rear bank to be 180* opposite the front? Im pretty sure it'll make more sense in the morning...gn

[Jon89le]

Anyone? I still cant figure it out. Thanks

[Vegeta]

If you have the rear cam flats up, and the cam gears installed, it will be 180 degrees (face down) when the crank is rotated 360 degrees.

[joey b]

does the holddown tool hold both cams or just 1? If it is just 1 then after you tighten the rears you will need to hold the fronts in place with the hold down tool and rotate the crank 360 then tighten the fronts. If the tool holds both the exhaust and intake then I dont' know WTF I am talking about and you should disregard.

[Vegeta]

It holds both cams at the same time.

[Jon89le]

Well my dad called me up yesterday (im away at school) and mentioned that when he rotates the crank 360*, one full turn, the rear bank goes around once and ends facing back up. I cant see what he could be doing wrong since its pretty easy to see something make a full turn.

[brian89gp]

He must be rotating it 720* then. There is no way for the cams to be turning at the same rate as the crank.

[Jon89le]

.double post.

[Jon89le]

Hmm. Just for question sake. The Cam intermediate shaft gear, the one connected to the crank by the timing chain, does that turn 1:1 with the crank pulley or is that gear and the crank 2:1? I was trying to think last night but couldnt figure it out since the gears that the timing chain rides on are different sizes. Came up with the idea since maybe my dads assuming the intermediate shaft gear and the crank pulley spin at the same rate and he's looking at the intermediate shaft gear instead of the other.