nrgup517 Posted January 31, 2004 Report Share Posted January 31, 2004 Hello, I just purchased a 1989 Red TGP with 50,000 miles. Everything on it works perfectly. Paint is excellent. This one is basically flawless and I want to do some preventive stuff to it since I know a little about what can go wrong in a hurry with this car. I want to set the engine cooling fan to kick on about 20 degrees cooler since this motor runs hot. Does anyone recommend a 160 degree thermostat? If so, where can I find one that will work? There is no oil leak that I can see but the gaskets look a little damp. I want to convert to Mobil One soon so I think I will add a quart at a time blending it with regular 5W 30 until it is eventually all sythetic. I don't really care for any chip mods right now because I know running this car hard isn't too good for it. I'd like it to last till 100k. Any other suggestions that may make this possible? TIA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
no1kicker Posted January 31, 2004 Report Share Posted January 31, 2004 I think if you want the 160 thermostat your best bet is a chip from Jeff M. Or you could manually set the fans to run. Welcome to the board. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
digitaloutsider Posted January 31, 2004 Report Share Posted January 31, 2004 Make sure there are absolutely no oil leaks before switching to synthetic. The smallest leak turns into the biggest problem when you move over. Trust me.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R Dubya Posted January 31, 2004 Report Share Posted January 31, 2004 Go with a chip upgrade from Jeff M. if you are looking for a long term investment. Some people have wired the fans to manual control, but with the cooler fan on points integrated into the chips and added boost it makes it worth it. I personally couldn't imagine going back to the factory chip ever. I don't know why I waited so long. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LukeZ34 Posted January 31, 2004 Report Share Posted January 31, 2004 Is this yours? Or soon to be? Just curious. http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=6422&item=2455838649 They'll last you quite a while even if you do drive them hard. About ready to turn over 120K on mine, and I love to have some fun in my car. Chipping it would be a good investment even if you don't run the car much. I think you would benefit from the lowered fan points and the fixes in the chip more than anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nrgup517 Posted January 31, 2004 Author Report Share Posted January 31, 2004 Thanks for the info. I'll go with the Performance 160 chip with the 160 thermostat it looks like. Thanks for the info. Go with a chip upgrade from Jeff M. if you are looking for a long term investment. Some people have wired the fans to manual control, but with the cooler fan on points integrated into the chips and added boost it makes it worth it. I personally couldn't imagine going back to the factory chip ever. I don't know why I waited so long. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nrgup517 Posted January 31, 2004 Author Report Share Posted January 31, 2004 No. That isn't mine but it looks nice. A little pricey if it actually sells for that. I lucked out getting a better deal I guess. Thanks Is this yours? Or soon to be? Just curious. http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=6422&item=2455838649 They'll last you quite a while even if you do drive them hard. About ready to turn over 120K on mine, and I love to have some fun in my car. Chipping it would be a good investment even if you don't run the car much. I think you would benefit from the lowered fan points and the fixes in the chip more than anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dannymik Posted January 31, 2004 Report Share Posted January 31, 2004 I'm curious to hear how much you paid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nrgup517 Posted January 31, 2004 Author Report Share Posted January 31, 2004 I'm curious to hear how much you paid Well, I think I was just in the right place at the right time. A friend of mine said his neighbor was looking to get rid of his car so I got it before it hit any ads. I paid $5000 for an 89 with 49,500 on it and everything works perfectly. That's why I want to put a few bucks into some good preventive stuff. When I was 18 I owned an 88 Turbo Grand Am. Car was awesome and fast but would run hot and overheat constantly. It ran the best in cold weather. I've always wanted a TGP but know there are a lot of similar issues with this car and finding low mileage ones are getting tougher. If you find one with 100k chances are it's over heated a few times already or has a bad turbo or leaks everywhere. Heat is the main cause of almost all under hood problems, (at least from my experience). I plan on leaving this car as stock as possible but will look to ad a 160 degree thermostat and a 160 chip if I hear back from Jeff M. Once I am positive the engine is sealed tight and not leaking any oil, I will convert to Mobil 1 synthetic, probably 1 quart at a time. I purchased a few cars off of Ebay and I never got a car that was as advertised. The original owners always see their car through Rose Colored Glasses and think they are worth way more then they are. 1/2 the time their descriptions are vaguely stated like "no known issues"...of course they will say that, leaves an easy out when something is discovered. "It never acted up like that on me" or "I never had that happen". If you can't physically touch and drive the car I wouldn't buy from Ebay unless you have a rock solid warranty included with the car. Just my opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nrgup517 Posted January 31, 2004 Author Report Share Posted January 31, 2004 I'm curious to hear how much you paid Incedently, about 2 months ago, there was a black 90 TGP, roof, leather that went for $4100. It had 65k on it and it was in Oregon. I almost picked that one up but shipping was $1000 and then it was going to need struts, brakes, tires and who knows what else. Time of year has a little to do with price also sometimes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff M Posted January 31, 2004 Report Share Posted January 31, 2004 OK, (I just took time to do a long post) so I still got more to do before I can go back to work. Please read this post below done by me down the page some, its for any used car 14-15 years old that has some miles on it, yours has less so lessen the replacement of parts till nearer to 80k to 100k miles, 60k do the fuel filter though. http://www.w-body.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=11908&sid=993ccefdc5cadeb876bf8924d3ac0428 Drain and flush the radiator fluid when you do the thermostat swap, distilled water 50/50 mix with rad fluid, RedLine WaterWetter is good stuff too. DO NOT use the 100k+ mile orange rad fluid stuff!! Don’t forget to flush the radiator overflow tank and to top it off as well! Drain and flush the tranny fluid, conversion to Mobil 1 Synthetic is a great idea and safe to do, also fiber not plastic mesh screen tranny oil filter. Tighten slightly more the 10mm nuts on the ends of the transmission where the half-shafts come out, the gaskets there are prone to shrink up some and leaks come from there, snugging up the bolts takes care of the problem. Perfect approach on the synthetic oil conversion, slowly, but to fix your oil leak, the most prone one is the O-Ring in the oil pump drive/distributor-delete gear housing, if replacing the leak prone crossover pipe, that is the best time to get at this item to be replaced (and a new O-Ring is included with the pipes I sell). Drain out the fluid in the ABS unit, before draining out this fluid, exercise the float as I detailed in the above post first, refill and flush the brake lines, while at the back brakes replace the slide pin that likes to hang up on W-Body cars with the $5 bronze one most PepBoys etc offer, might need to turn that rear rotor if rusted up from lack of use. If your car still has it, be very careful whenever removing the plastic retainer clip for the vacuum line connector on the top of the throttle body, do not lose this either!! Spark plugs etc as detailed in the above post. Careful pulling up to curbs with your front end, lower front air damn lip will make contact!!! DO NOT do sustained high speed driving (sorry if you never planned on this, fact needs to be said anyways, again), keeping the car at 85+ mph for long hauls is hard on the tranny/4th gear, worse in the hotter summer weather. Replace Crank Sensor even if a low mileage car, it’s the years that can also cause these sensors to setup into the block making it a problem or impossible to replace later, cheap costing part too! Over the year learn to do this trick when cleaning the inside of the windows; spray the window cleaner ONTO the scott tower NOT onto the window, overspray will fall onto the plastic and dry it out making it more prone to age cranking, worse for the carpet on the rear window deck, many owners have the crumbling carpet problem on the rear window deck from years of window cleaner overspray (added to the effects of the sun back there). Replace the front and rear mats with best aftermarket replacement you can find, keep the stock ones for maybe special occasions like car shows or taking out the hotties, these stock mats can wear out pretty quick. Clean out now and always the sand and such from the sown seam areas of the seat, this will help keep the seams from coming apart later, also use appropriate cleaner and treatment on them regularly as well as the leather steering wheel and leather shifter (acids from your hands are hard on leather!!). Be alert if the driver’s side express down window control hangs often when all the way open/down, if so then get in the habit of manually releasing it, or remove the holding clip, if not then get a flat spot in the window motor as some have. Over the years handle all engine plastics such as electrical connector clips with care, age and heat will make these brittle! As you will now since it’s a new car, but always, keep the top exterior painted areas well waxed, worn TGPs have shown fading of the paint on the top parts of the; side mirrors, front and rear bumpers, trunk lid, hood and roof. If you live in a hot/sunny state, try to keep it out of the midday sun, and treat the rubber trims with some form of treatment but NOT armor-all, its only a surface coating and not a good treatment nourishing the rubber as it dries out. If you can, send me a very detailed pic of your engine bay areas, I have seen these enough to recognize what has been messed with by prior owners and/or mechanics, too many times these cars are messed up (owner may not know) from unfamiliar hands touching things, its much more common than one would assume. The stock fog lights have an excellent design, but never aimed to perform properly, they are all set from the factory too high, first swap out the pathetic 27 watt 881 indicator bulbs that are in there with either a 50 watt 885 or 886 bulb (I have run 100 watt bulbs in there so 50 will not cause any problems!!), then at night find a wall to aim your lights at, pull back up about 50 feet then first adjust the head lights out as far as they will go without beaming the location of oncoming divers (I get in front 50 or so feet out and squat down to about oncoming driver’s line of sight height), you will also need to aim the driver’s headlight more to the left of the road away from the far right as they so often come. Next bring down the beam of the fogs on the road to fill they area from just past the view of the hood out to where the headlights pick up, you are all set, and the fogs will provide a lot of illumination to the road as well off to the sides now! Treat the sunroof glass and all windows except the front with RainEx, this helps stop acid rain etching over the years, do not use on plastics including any headlights made of plastic (some are glass, ok to treat)! Grease/oil any mechanisms such as door, hood, trunk hinges, latches etc. I like to use LPS3, a heavy waxy based lubricant to coat such things as engine grounds and connectors exposed to the elements, same as indicated in above post on batter connections being check, cleaned and greased. That is about it off the top of my head, others can offer their findings, good luck on your new purchase, it’s a very enjoyable car to own and drive. Jeff M 1990 TGP chip’d 14.4 1990 TSTE chip’d 14.6 1990 TGP chip’d octane 13.98 1990 TGP mod’s 13.1 (for now) 1993 Stokes Typhoon-S 10.89 @127 2003 CLK 14.2 1994 Olds 98 16.3 ( ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff M Posted January 31, 2004 Report Share Posted January 31, 2004 I'm curious to hear how much you paid When I was 18 I owned an 88 Turbo Grand Am. Car was awesome and fast but would run hot and overheat constantly. It ran the best in cold weather. I've always wanted a TGP but know there are a lot of similar issues with this car and finding low mileage ones are getting tougher. If you find one with 100k chances are it's over heated a few times already or has a bad turbo or leaks everywhere. Heat is the main cause of almost all under hood problems, (at least from my experience). I plan on leaving this car as stock as possible but will look to ad a 160 degree thermostat and a 160 chip if I hear back from Jeff M. Once I am positive the engine is sealed tight and not leaking any oil, I will convert to Mobil 1 synthetic, probably 1 quart at a time. (Jeff will be responding to your email shortly). Not saying you’re wrong, a lot of what “problems†you have heard on the message boards is not an indication of the common condition of TGPs out there. Think about it this way, someone having problems with their car will get on the internet and look for help from a message board, every little problem they have, why not get on a message board for help, the Internet is a great asset to have and it works. Conversely how many TGP owners without problems make an effort to come to message boards just to say, “hi guys, my car runs great, thanks seeyaâ€Â. From the close to 3,000 TGP owners I have talked to since 1990 maybe 20% have heat problems, but those like any cars can be related back to a lack of care/lack of listening to the warnings here on how to avoid problems, we hear it on here; radiators plugged up and/or leaking, plugged up means lack of changing the fluid and in using tap water, lack of changing the fluid also means the fluid in there has become acidic as it will after 3 years, which will eat holes in the soft metals used in a radiator! Next you can understand from having a hot turbo engine bay, the fans run a lot (though not until 215 degrees for the main fan), eventually the fan bearings give out, but if the owner is not checking yearly the slop in the fan bearings, is going to be victim of a failed fan/overheating condition. There is also a somewhat common problem of this hard working large amp drawing fan in melting the main connectors, and the connections at the relay center, but if people don’t check these areas, will find out when the fan quits running/overheats. As for failed turbos, very few rebuilds have been necessary for TGP owners that I have heard over the years, main cause for oil leaking in the turbo is the stock turbo oil drain line collapsing internally, and can be remedied beforehand by a high quality replacement, I even know that 95% of owners that blew smoke from this restricted line were able to get by with just replacing the line, and did not have to rebuild the turbo, there is also one owner I know with 260k miles with stock turbo, engine and tranny. Leaks everywhere are not common, the only common leak is the one indicated at the oil pump drive/distributor gear housing O-Ring, only thing left is front and rear main seals, which do drip some but no big puddles, oil pan seeps but not much at all, lower intake to top of the block might leak but more so if the upper intake has been removed and reinstalled with the same care most mechanic shops give from what I have seen, everything not that bad or common with any high mileage car. I think you will be glad to hear McLaren spec’d this car well, there is an auxiliary tranny cooler (stacked plate design not lesser serpentine) and larger tranny cooler lines, air to air intercooler, water cooled turbo, hardedned crank, heavy duty pistons and such things, but more to your interest, an existing stock engine oil cooler that sits behind the oil filter adapter, a pretty well engineered car all around aside from GM’s finger in there getting a low-bid crossover pipe. The only real point I am trying to make is a positive one for you and other owners, the TGP and TSTE are actually pretty damn dependable with a little care along the way, and that the message boards got a lot of traffic from problems more than those without, though after the years of more TGP owners being members here and at the other message board, ownership care is greatly reducing the problem posts and we are seeing more posts regarding new owners, mods and such enjoyable topics. Enjoy the ride, will be emailing your soon, I may have answered questions in your email here, but its also good info for others to hear, and I hope they search for in the future (or since I printed all of these long-ass posts out, will be putting them up on my web site when I can get to it ). Jeff M Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R Dubya Posted January 31, 2004 Report Share Posted January 31, 2004 I've had my first TGP for almost 5 yrs. now and it only broke down once, when the ECM was broken. The car would run, then quit, and sometimes start, sometimes not. I had the dealer do it before I knew how to do it myself, but they recommended doing it incase there was something else wrong that caused the ECM to fail. All said and done I spent the most money on my car this past spring that I had in all the time that I owned it, and mostly for performance/tuning reasons. But it runs better than it ever did, and it really puts you back in the seat. A blast to drive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff M Posted February 1, 2004 Report Share Posted February 1, 2004 I've had my first TGP for almost 5 yrs. now and it only broke down once, when the ECM was broken. The car would run, then quit, and sometimes start, sometimes not. I had the dealer do it before I knew how to do it myself, but they recommended doing it incase there was something else wrong that caused the ECM to fail. All said and done I spent the most money on my car this past spring that I had in all the time that I owned it, and mostly for performance/tuning reasons. But it runs better than it ever did, and it really puts you back in the seat. A blast to drive. Wow, that is odd to hear such a post, glad to hear it for sure its just odd to hear someone saying how well things are with their prize ride . Thanks for the feedback, maybe grab a 10mm wrench (when its warm out again) and replace that crank sensor, good preventive item to do now, has been a problem for a few and too much of a problem that its good to do soon as you can, and its like $15 so that is worth bragging about 8) ! Continued good luck and thanks again for some positive results ! Jeff M Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted February 1, 2004 Report Share Posted February 1, 2004 I never had any problems with mine except a coil and an ignition module. It had 18x,xxx miles on it when it was wrecked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TGPilot Posted February 1, 2004 Report Share Posted February 1, 2004 Awesome thread for sure! I would like to ad to this thread about one thing stated. Not bashing...just adding!! Under no circumstance should anyone in a cold climate use Water-Wetter unless your car will never be under 32* F! Water-Wetter has ZERO protection against freezing temps, but a great use for any water cooled engine to reduce engine temps. There is a product called Engine Ice that works much better than Water-Wetter. Water-Wetter will reduce temps 5-15*F with no anti-freeze benefits, whereas Engine-Ice has protection to -25*F and reduces engine temps 15-25*F. Only issue with Engine Ice....$40 per gallon. It was designed for motor-cycle use orginally and where I was introduced to it. We previously used Water-Wetter in a 2003 CR450F dirt track racer and would over-heat on the line waiting for the start. Normally we would have to shut-down and then bump the bike off just before the race start to not have the issue of over-heating. With Engine-Ice we idle the entire time 20-30 minutes without the engine reaching any more than operating temps (verified with hand held infra-red temp gun). Guys are using Engine Ice in water to air intercoolers on All-Trac Toyotas and had a huge reduction of charged air temps... 8) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RareGMFan Posted February 1, 2004 Report Share Posted February 1, 2004 Agreed, good thread! :shock: nrgup517: A few of us are going to do a mini Chicago area TGP get together when the whether breaks (no date selected, yet). You're welcome to join if you like! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff M Posted February 2, 2004 Report Share Posted February 2, 2004 Evans have a radiator fluid alternative as well, NPG+ for use as a direct replacement (the original stuff was not) uses no water so no worries about sediment and build-up or electrolysis before dissimilar metals, boils at 375 degree F, some other benefits and it costs half that of Engine-Ice or other such products, but its downside is no freeze protection, give and take with everything, but racers don't care, they don't race their cars in the winter . Water Wetter (as stated with a 50/50% mix) is something of value, probably more than the TB hose bypass since once the thermostat opens that funny looking wafer at the bottom of the stat closes off the hose to the TB anyways. Jeff M Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TGPilot Posted February 2, 2004 Report Share Posted February 2, 2004 Water Wetter (as stated with a 50/50% mix) is something of value, probably more than the TB hose bypass since once the thermostat opens that funny looking wafer at the bottom of the stat closes off the hose to the TB anyways. Jeff M I always wondered what that wafer was for! :shock: I don't have the luxury of a T-stat in my hand at the moment to see the workings myself...so when the T-stat opens the wafer is forced down to close off the passage? 8) Here are some specs on Water Wetter for anyone who is interested... http://www.redlineoil.com/redlineoil/wwti.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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