conley3.1 Posted January 6, 2004 Report Share Posted January 6, 2004 Okay. My car wouldnt' start today. This morning, I started it up, but it died. Then, it wouldn't start. I cranked it, but no starting. I used starter fluid (kinda like ether) and it STILL wouldn't start!!! It ran fine yesterday, after I replaced the 02 sensor. I thought it might have been the cold weather, and my mom took me to school. After school at about 3:30, I tried starting. No dice. Starting fluid once again didn't help, but it did help my car shoot a freaking flame out of the filter!! Now my cone filter has black blotches on it, and the car won't start Does anybody have any idea what the f*** is going on?? I think my car's new theme song is "Ode to my car", ya know, the Adam Sandler song... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SigEpCutlass Posted January 6, 2004 Report Share Posted January 6, 2004 are you absolutely certain the O2 sensor is installed correctly? if not it'll be sending a bad signal which could be the problem. Also how's your starter and your alternator doing? We need more details to help figure out what's wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robby1870 Posted January 6, 2004 Report Share Posted January 6, 2004 Check for spark.....sounds like the crank sensor is dead Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
conley3.1 Posted January 7, 2004 Author Report Share Posted January 7, 2004 Hmm... well, the starter is brand new, as are spark plugs and battery. I think i'm getting spark... I'm pretty sure the alternator is running right. Yesterday it started without the alternator plugged in anyways, I had pulled the plug on it to get better access to the exhaust manifold, and I forgot to plug it back in. I plugged it in after I started the car, and yes, the o2 sensor is in right, with anti-seize stuff and everything. Maybe i should replace my plug wires? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topless94style Posted January 7, 2004 Report Share Posted January 7, 2004 Pull a plug, and set it on your manifold with the wire hooked onto the plug. Crank the engine and have someone watch for spark. Then again that could be a bad idea with all the starting fluid you have sprayed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
conley3.1 Posted January 7, 2004 Author Report Share Posted January 7, 2004 Yeah, no kidding... Starting fluid... I gotta stop using it. My filter was like, smoking, after i pulled it off :oops: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robby1870 Posted January 7, 2004 Report Share Posted January 7, 2004 are you absolutely certain the O2 sensor is installed correctly? if not it'll be sending a bad signal which could be the problem. Also how's your starter and your alternator doing? We need more details to help figure out what's wrong. ECM doesnt use the O2 signal unitil its in closed loop well after startup Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slade901 Posted January 7, 2004 Report Share Posted January 7, 2004 When you crank it, does the engine turns over? You think you have a spark, well confirm it with a spark tester on all spark plug wires. If you have a perfectly good sparks on all spark plug wires, then I suggest to check around the spark plug base to make sure it is not wet, (ie water, oil, etc). If the base around the spark plug is wet, then it will ground the spark and will not let the spark plug tip to spark. Make sure the spark plug wires are dry and if it is wet then wipe it with a dry cloth. You said the spark plugs are new, are they gapped properly to the right specs and is it torqued to the right specs without using an anti-sieze compound? Probably the fuel injectors are leaking and flooding the engine? Try removing the fuel pump relay and fuel pump fuse. Try it this time with the starting fluid. Why is your cone filter even near it? Just disconnect everything and expose the throttle body so you can see the trottle body plate. That is only time you use the starting fluid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
conley3.1 Posted January 7, 2004 Author Report Share Posted January 7, 2004 Yes, the engine cranks. I'll check the spark tomorrow. I'm pretty sure the injectors are very dirty, as the previous owner didn't keep the engine clean at all. Also, the throttle body is VERY dirty and I haven't had a chance to clean it lately, I'm going to tomorrow (if I have time) I was planning on taking it in to my mechanic, but it wouldn't start, so I couldn't... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ribbie Posted January 7, 2004 Report Share Posted January 7, 2004 Yes, the engine cranks. I'll check the spark tomorrow. I'm pretty sure the injectors are very dirty, as the previous owner didn't keep the engine clean at all. Also, the throttle body is VERY dirty and I haven't had a chance to clean it lately, I'm going to tomorrow (if I have time)I was planning on taking it in to my mechanic, but it wouldn't start, so I couldn't... Dirty injectors and throttle body should not stop the car from starting. Check for spark and make sure you are getting fuel. These are the basics of a 'No Start' situation. If you have neither of these then we have to look deeper. Start with the simple things first, and use the process of elimination to get to your root cause. D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeremy Posted January 7, 2004 Report Share Posted January 7, 2004 is there any gas in it?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
conley3.1 Posted January 7, 2004 Author Report Share Posted January 7, 2004 Yeah, there's half a tank, and injector cleaner stuff too... However, it is acting a lot like its not getting any gas... I ran out of gas a couple weeks ago, and it acted just like this. Hmm... Anyway i can check to see if fuels coming in without taking off the manifold? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dkorinko Posted January 7, 2004 Report Share Posted January 7, 2004 It sounds like u are having more of a prob then this but have u checked the fuel filter? I have heard they can be pretty nasty when the get messed up! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
conley3.1 Posted January 8, 2004 Author Report Share Posted January 8, 2004 the fuel filter is built into one of the fuel lines, and its impossible to get out (I tried with the fuel lines out of my old engine, and it is IMPOSSIBLE to get out, heh, trust me) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robby1870 Posted January 8, 2004 Report Share Posted January 8, 2004 Umm....no. If you have a line wrench you can get the fuel filter off. Its pretty easy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeremy Posted January 8, 2004 Report Share Posted January 8, 2004 Yeah, there's half a tank, and injector cleaner stuff too... However, it is acting a lot like its not getting any gas... I ran out of gas a couple weeks ago, and it acted just like this. Hmm... Anyway i can check to see if fuels coming in without taking off the manifold? broken gas guage??? <-------serious question Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jheiv Posted January 8, 2004 Report Share Posted January 8, 2004 Here are some ideas, this happened to me. 1. Get some more gas... just to be POSITIVE you have fuel. I know... stop... ok... i dont care, get some gas. 2. Make sure your fuel pump is working. You could do that a couple of ways. You could use a pressure gauge at the schrader valve on the fuel rail (but you probably dont have a fuel pressure gauge). You can also sometimes hear the pump prime when you turn the key to the ON position. You could ALSO, and this might be your best bet, go and buy a new fuel filter, and change your filter, and while you're down there make sure its working. 3. Like I said, make sure your fuel filter is fine. 4. Check your FPR (Fuel Pressure Regulator). 5. Make sure ALL of your wires are closed (do the spark plug on block test or spark tester test) 6. Make sure your plugs aren't fouled. Take them out, inspect, clean and regap. 7. Make sure your engine isn't flooded, look into the cylinder when you take out your plugs. If it is flooded get all the fuel out and start with clear cylinders. 8. I'm not sure if your model has this but mine ('89 3.1L Turbo V-6) did, but check your Crankshaft Position Sensor. 9. Check to see if your DIS(Ignition Module) is in working condition. This sounds like my problem, with was a bitch to fix. It ended up being, broken DIS module, which fouled my plugs and flooded my engine. Hope this helps a little. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jheiv Posted January 8, 2004 Report Share Posted January 8, 2004 If you can find your schrader valve (it looks like a tire valve on ur fuel rail under a little metal cap), take the cap off, put the edge of a flat head screwdriver or key to the pin in the valve. This will bleed/depressurize the fuel system up to the rail. Go back, prime your pump by turning the ignition to ON for 15 seconds, OFF. Now go try and depressurize the valve again, if you get squirting of fuel you are getting fuel pressure. If you get squealing of air, keep repeating until you bleed the system or when fuel squirts out. In my experience GM pumps dont really half fail, they will normally not give you insufficient pressure, that is usually your FPR. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
conley3.1 Posted January 8, 2004 Author Report Share Posted January 8, 2004 Yes, the fuel pump turns on when you turn the ignition to on, you can hear it every time. I know where the schrader valve is, i'll check it in a few minutes. When i tried to open the filter on the old line, we didn't try conventional methods. I was going to throw it away anyways, so my friend and we hit it, banged on it, pressed it in a vice, etc. heh heh. It's not a broken fuel guage, because i had just put half a tank in while i had my old gauge cluster, and i only drove it about 2 miles, and then parked it and put in the new gauge cluster, and it read the same 1/2 tank. Haven't driven it since, so it still has half a tank, and no fuel leak btw. I scanned the ECU a few weeks ago, and it read unstable manifold vaccuum, MAF sensor problems, 02 sensor, and i think MAP sensor too. I've replaced the o2 sensor, and fixed the vaccuum, but haven't scanned it sense. It's still throwing a code, though. Haven't had a chance to check it since. It wasn't reading anything about the crankshaft sensor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jheiv Posted January 9, 2004 Report Share Posted January 9, 2004 Did you check your FPR or plugs? And all of your wires? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TurboSedan Posted January 9, 2004 Report Share Posted January 9, 2004 Yeah, there's half a tank, and injector cleaner stuff too... However, it is acting a lot like its not getting any gas... I ran out of gas a couple weeks ago, and it acted just like this. Hmm... Anyway i can check to see if fuels coming in without taking off the manifold? yup, there is a schrader valve on the fuel rail. it usually has a cap on it that you unscrew and it should be near the thermostat housing. it basically looks like a bike inner-tube valve. you can press it slightly in with the tip of a screwdriver and gas will come spray out (if it has pressure), but i would be really careful and just barely press it in slowly so gas doesn't spray everywhere. that will at least tell you if you have fuel and fuel pressure - i think fuel injected cars run at around 50psi but i'm not sure what it should be when cranking. it would be best to get a fuel pressure gauge that you could screw in instead of course. i found the cause of a 'no-start' condition i had once, and i ended up replacing the pump (not fun). joshua Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
conley3.1 Posted January 10, 2004 Author Report Share Posted January 10, 2004 Yeah, I know where the fuel pressure valve thingy is... I've done a lot of work on this car. Total engine swap, you know. I got it to start I put on a different intake manifold (When I did the swap, I used a 3.1 from a 93 Corsica and had to change all the brackets and engine mounts from the old Lumina engine (busted timing chain) Also, the throttle linkage (on the throttle body) is different on the Corsica, so i just swapped the entire TB and manifold from the old Lumina motor onto the new Corsica motor. I cleaned the Corsica manifold very well yesterday, and then i cleaned the Lumina TB too. So, i took off the old manifold, saw all the busted ass plastic vaccuum lines, replaced them with rubber ones (except for the HVAC line, I couldn't find where it goes through the firewall) and put on the Corsica manifold, and then bolted up the original TB. It started right up after i put the various hoses and wires back to where they go. Then, it died immediately. I revved it up for a few secs, then it idled normally. I think the incredibly dirty TB and manifold were actually the causes of the non-starting condition it was in. Thanks for all the help. Thanks a lot Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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