Blaze420 Posted December 25, 2003 Report Share Posted December 25, 2003 Anyone know a site or company I can get a Intake Manifold for my 90' Lumina Euro 3.1? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slick Posted December 25, 2003 Report Share Posted December 25, 2003 I'm guessing you want a ported intake manifold? Umm, RSM i think sells them. If you want just a stock manifold, either hit the junkyards or the for sale section. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vegeta Posted December 25, 2003 Report Share Posted December 25, 2003 I have a 2.8 manifold sitting here. Granted it says 2.8 on it but its all the same. Are you looking for a ported version or stock? Its stock right now but I do porting. Normally not much interest in the gen 2 parts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blaze420 Posted December 25, 2003 Author Report Share Posted December 25, 2003 I'm not looking for a ported one I can do that myself. I'm also not looking for a stock one.(I have one.) I was wondering if there are any aftermarket performance Intake Manifolds for my 90' Lumina Euro 3.1. Also, I had a friend that told me a Intake Manifold off of a 3.4 DOHC or a 3400 (don't remember which one) would fir on it for a small boost in performance. Is this true? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vegeta Posted December 25, 2003 Report Share Posted December 25, 2003 3400, and yes if you swap the heads. Otherwise with your current heads you have no upgrade path. The gen 3 top end is more than just a small boost in performance, cause gen 2 sucks ass. Even ported gen 2 is a solid waste of time. Im going to port this set and toss them on ebay and see if they even sell. Im sure someone will...hahaha. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blaze420 Posted December 26, 2003 Author Report Share Posted December 26, 2003 Is there anything else that I would have to upgrade on my car to get them to run right besides removing the stock 3.1 heads/intake and installing the 3400 ones? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quaddriver Posted December 26, 2003 Report Share Posted December 26, 2003 3400, and yes if you swap the heads. Otherwise with your current heads you have no upgrade path. The gen 3 top end is more than just a small boost in performance, cause gen 2 sucks ass. Even ported gen 2 is a solid waste of time. Im going to port this set and toss them on ebay and see if they even sell. Im sure someone will...hahaha. I wouldnt say that - any set of aluminum splayed valve heads are good. Just upgrade to bigger valves (off the shelf GM part), do a gasket match port and clean the bowls up and they will be fine. I can get 230+ hp on a marinized 3.1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vegeta Posted December 26, 2003 Report Share Posted December 26, 2003 Yeah dude...you dont even know. Gen 3 heads are much better than gen 2 for the flow rates. The gen 3 intakes wont fit the gen 2 heads, the ports don't line up well at all so whil its possible, you have a shitload of work ahead of you for the ports as well as needing to really mess with the gaskets to seal everything up. The gen 2 intakes are shit, total shit. Why the boat engine stipulation? Id like to see you get 230 hp with the gen 2 top end without nitrous or boost. I guess if you spend lots of money anything is possible but for the rest of us not into wasting money, the gen 3 top end swap is a ton more effective at making power. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TurboSedan Posted December 26, 2003 Report Share Posted December 26, 2003 if you use 3x00 heads/intake on a GEN-2 block do you need to change pistons? is it possible to run boost on that setup or would the CR be too high? joshua Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quaddriver Posted December 27, 2003 Report Share Posted December 27, 2003 Yeah dude...you dont even know. Gen 3 heads are much better than gen 2 for the flow rates. The gen 3 intakes wont fit the gen 2 heads, the ports don't line up well at all so whil its possible, you have a shitload of work ahead of you for the ports as well as needing to really mess with the gaskets to seal everything up. The gen 2 intakes are shit, total shit. Why the boat engine stipulation? Id like to see you get 230 hp with the gen 2 top end without nitrous or boost. I guess if you spend lots of money anything is possible but for the rest of us not into wasting money, the gen 3 top end swap is a ton more effective at making power. I have to ask.....so forgive, but have you ever even SEEN gen2 vs gen3 heads (ports, bowls, chambers, valves) next to each other? I didnt think so or you would not have made those statements. You can put basically '305' valves (1.84/1.5) in a gen 2 with about 15 minutes shop work - 1.94/1.5 with a little more, you can run up to a HUGE 1.6 exhaust on a gen2 and you can port the gen 2 intake to match the gen3. Since by your signature you claim to own neither, nor have done none of the above - I ask - how would you know? With up tp 6500-7000rpm on tap, I know 3.1's running well over 250hp, no boost, no bottle and streetable (I know an IMSA camaro running well over 300hp using off the shelf parts). Since I have been working on adapting 3.1s to replace OMC/merc 3.0I-4s, I have been limited on the RPMS I can run, even with the 4 cyl gearcase - but even still, my customers are going from 120-130-140hp I4s to 230hp V6s that weigh the same, use efi and hence are happy. So I repeat, as long as the heads are splayed valve and aluminum - any casting - there is power to be made - period. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blaze420 Posted December 27, 2003 Author Report Share Posted December 27, 2003 So quaddriver what would be better. 3400 heads/intake on my car or buying GM Performance Gen 2 or Gen 3 heads/3400 intake? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cutlassdude96 Posted December 27, 2003 Report Share Posted December 27, 2003 Yeah dude...you dont even know. Gen 3 heads are much better than gen 2 for the flow rates. The gen 3 intakes wont fit the gen 2 heads, the ports don't line up well at all so whil its possible, you have a shitload of work ahead of you for the ports as well as needing to really mess with the gaskets to seal everything up. The gen 2 intakes are shit, total shit. Why the boat engine stipulation? Id like to see you get 230 hp with the gen 2 top end without nitrous or boost. I guess if you spend lots of money anything is possible but for the rest of us not into wasting money, the gen 3 top end swap is a ton more effective at making power. I have to ask.....so forgive, but have you ever even SEEN gen2 vs gen3 heads (ports, bowls, chambers, valves) next to each other? I didnt think so or you would not have made those statements. You can put basically '305' valves (1.84/1.5) in a gen 2 with about 15 minutes shop work - 1.94/1.5 with a little more, you can run up to a HUGE 1.6 exhaust on a gen2 and you can port the gen 2 intake to match the gen3. Since by your signature you claim to own neither, nor have done none of the above - I ask - how would you know? With up tp 6500-7000rpm on tap, I know 3.1's running well over 250hp, no boost, no bottle and streetable (I know an IMSA camaro running well over 300hp using off the shelf parts). Since I have been working on adapting 3.1s to replace OMC/merc 3.0I-4s, I have been limited on the RPMS I can run, even with the 4 cyl gearcase - but even still, my customers are going from 120-130-140hp I4s to 230hp V6s that weigh the same, use efi and hence are happy. So I repeat, as long as the heads are splayed valve and aluminum - any casting - there is power to be made - period. I guess you dont know that he runs the 60V6 site and knows whats he talking about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quaddriver Posted December 27, 2003 Report Share Posted December 27, 2003 So quaddriver what would be better. 3400 heads/intake on my car or buying GM Performance Gen 2 or Gen 3 heads/3400 intake? check the combustion chamber size, if the "3400" heads are larger than the heads coming off, then you will lose compression hence power. the GM perf heads for either gen are simply ported and polished stock heads. if you have a dremel you can do the same, the .04 larger intake on a 3.4 vs 3.1 is not that much of a diff - especially if you use a different cam. the real work u need to do with a 3.1 g2 head is on the exhaust end - dont be swayed by the flow claims of a D port. the 'oval-D' debate has raged within GM now for over 40 years and every year when one comes out as an improvment, the next year a different one comes out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joey b Posted December 27, 2003 Report Share Posted December 27, 2003 who is this queer? This is the same guy who was talking about how the DOHC was a big POS because it was a 60V6 but raves of the 3.1 Now Ben doesn't know what he's talking about and the gen II heads are better than the gen III; well Mr. Genius, then WTF would they have changed them? Dude, go hang yourself in your attic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quaddriver Posted December 27, 2003 Report Share Posted December 27, 2003 [i guess you dont know that he runs the 60V6 site and knows whats he talking about. You are absolutely right, making a UBB webpage that basically contains pictures of cars with K&N filters and pink shock absorbers makes one an unimpeachable expert, rather than actually working on or modifying engines. Shit why didnt I consider that, Ill close down the shop and put up a webpage....lets see what is offered Here is every topic in the FAQ: Login and Registration Issues Why can't I log in? Why do I need to register at all? Why do I get logged off automatically? How do I prevent my username from appearing in the online user listings? I've lost my password! I registered but cannot log in! I registered in the past but cannot log in anymore! User Preferences and settings How do I change my settings? The times are not correct! I changed the timezone and the time is still wrong! My language is not in the list! How do I show an image below my username? How do I change my rank? When I click the email link for a user it asks me to log in. Posting Issues How do I post a topic in a forum? How do I edit or delete a post? How do I add a signature to my post? How do I create a poll? How do I edit or delete a poll? Why can't I access a forum? Why can't I vote in polls? Formatting and Topic Types What is BBCode? Can I use HTML? What are Smileys? Can I post Images? What are Announcements? What are Sticky topics? What are Locked topics? User Levels and Groups What are Administrators? What are Moderators? What are Usergroups? How do I join a Usergroup? How do I become a Usergroup Moderator? Private Messaging I cannot send private messages! I keep getting unwanted private messages! I have received a spamming or abusive email from someone on this board! phpBB 2 Issues Who wrote this bulletin board? Why isn't X feature available? Whom do I contact about abusive and/or legal matters related to this board? Attachments How do I add an attachment? How do I add an attachment after the initial posting? How do I delete an attachment? How do I update a file comment? Why isn't my attachment visible in the post? Why can't I add attachments? I've got the necessary permissions, why can't I add attachments? Why can't I delete attachments? Why can't I view/download attachments? Who do I contact about illegal or possibly illegal attachments? Look at all that technical car information!!! I will never have to use ShopKeys or Alldata ever again! (that will save me beaucoup money!) Or it has posting gems like: This has been argued upon forever. And stock, the Lumina Z34 should DETROY a 5.0 Camaro. It's the IROC 5.7 that we had problems with. But my car will run right beside my dad's, a 1994 Z28, LT-1 6-speed. (yes, cars that are almost 3 seconds slower in the 1/4 mile and have nearly 50mph less top speed are considered to be "right beside" each other) The Z34 was toned down because a 285(original output) hp V6 revving to 7k would take out a 300hp vette. FWD and 1000 more RPM help A LOT. And they couldn't handle a Lumina embarrassing a Corvette. SO they gave it just enough to hang with the Taurus SHO, of which it will (Ummmm no, hydramatic was unable to come up with a transmission that could reliably handle the power) Or 3.1 with ported 3400 top end making 300 HP NA? I don't think so. And why exactly is the 3400 bad for performance applications? The extra displacement must not be good. It is not much different from a 3100, which is what you would have when you put the 3400 top end onto the 3.1 block. Except you wouldn't have a roller cam No kidding? All I have to do is bolt heads from a 3.4L on my 3.1L and the displacment increases? DAMN! and all those years I would pay for overbores or the larger castings found in the bowtie block! Now Im really learning something!!!! Look, I know its the 2000's and this is the internet, hence everyone has dodge-viper-killing bone stock motors (except for a 'gasket port', K&N and Jacobs plug wires) but there does exist a point where the BS just gets a littttttttle too deep. If you think your 660 is bad, then fine, show up at the track - but be prepared to see gen 1 2.8s in S10s and chevettes that run solid 12's on all motor. I think it was in another thread I challenged a recalcitrant poster to find me one single automotive professional, be it shop owner, tuner, racer etc that thinks the 34dohc was even a GOOD (note the word good) motor let alone the saviour of our planet as some claim - how many people were offered up? to date: exactly zero. Then in another thread we have others claiming the 3800 is a junk motor (which is exactly the opposite of what any professional, tuner or racer would say) Whereas I am no stranger to collecting odd material for hobbies (I restore antique small displacement jap bikes and collect smallbore rifles) I would expect to get flamed if I claimed an S90 would outhandle a ZX7 or that WRF has more knockdown than a .308 - not a world of difference than some of the claims we have seen elsewhere huh? And fwiw, people might *think* the gen 3's are the cake, BUT, the rate of intake gasket failure is a LOT higher[1] and there exists whole piles of low mileage motors ruined by dexcool. Have I ragged on the 660 motors? yep - all makes and models - and I have backed it up with evidence that to date has never been challenged, let alone shown to be false. I maintain that they are low-science, high maint powerplants capable of good numbers when properly done. Are they reliable? no friggin way. Never have been, probably never will be. since GM has shown direction to make the 3800 the 'corporate' motor for the new century much like the 350 was for the last century, the 660 motor will now serve to be the 'base model 6' from here out - much like the 250 I6 was previously. notes: [1] Fix a gen 2 intake once properly with a proper felpro intake set and it will never need done again. *ALL* gen2's will fail - I note that no one here claims to have a gen2 since birth - hence cannot speak as to when it was redone properly. In the same light - *ALL* gen3 intakes will also fail, however there is no fix - once the motor heats up (usually accomplished by starting it) the plastic gasket frame gets brittle, it will then therefore break, usually within 50K miles like clockwork. Once it breaks the nitrile rubber seal soon follows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian P Posted December 27, 2003 Report Share Posted December 27, 2003 newer 3800's have the same gasket problems and intake manifold problems as the 660's. Just yesterday I found a 3800 taken apart at a junkyard...looked to be a '94+ Olds eighty eight. The intake gasket was made with the same materials as the '94-02 60* gaskets, and wouldn't you know it- it broke! (I found a recall on it too- maybe thats why many 3800's have been saved, GM took most gaskets out before they failed) And that was why the car was in the yard (wish I had a camera). Don't blame GM's cheap attempts at a thermogasket on an engine. At least they got it right in 2003. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robby1870 Posted December 27, 2003 Report Share Posted December 27, 2003 Quaddriver, have you ever had a Gen II heads and Gen III heads on a flow bench?!?! The Gen III flows much better, for numerous reasons, the slight change in shape of the intake port and the D-shaped exhaust port, vs. the circular shaped exhaust port on the Gen II heads. I dont care what you think, thats just the way it is. That is one main reason the 3100s have more HP at a higher rpm than the 3.1L. Couple the better heads with SFI, and a roller cam, that sounds like 20HP to me. On another note, the FAQs on this site are the exact same ones on the 60* site. Hell, every phpBB site has the same FAQs, thats the way they are set up!!!! Nice try on that one. Oh, and if those quotes you have are from people that have posted on the forum...........you cant claim those as his, they are other peoples thoughts, and if they are wrong, which they are, Ben cant take credit for them. I think its funny you wasted your time going through his site picking it apart letter by letter to find stuff wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted December 27, 2003 Report Share Posted December 27, 2003 Sounds like a good ending to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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