lowering 97 cutlass supreme

[97cutty]

so I’m kinda new to the forum and was wondering if anyone’s lowered their olds cutlass and what setup they used because I’m not finding much

Edited August 14 by 97cutty

[rich_e777]

We have a stickied thread in the suspension subforum. It literally is titled How to lower a W-body.

 

[97cutty]

54 minutes ago, rich_e777 said:

We have a stickied thread in the suspension subforum. It literally is titled How to lower a W-body.

 

already looked at that, the coilovers website no longer works it seems

[Bake82]

Front - either build your own coilovers, find some of the unobtanium 95-99 lumina/monte springs, or cut a coil off the front factory spring 

 

rear - build your own coilovers, or call birchmount springs in burlington Ontario and se if they will build you a new spring like they did 15-20 yrs ago.  

 

It's a tough go now to lower the car these days

[Schurkey]

Wild Guess with no evidence:  The car is now about 27 years old.  The springs are probably originals.  Therefore, it's not unreasonable to assume that the springs have fatigued.  The car IS lower.

Measure ride-height the way GM intends.  I bet you find the vehicle has settled.

[97cutty]

On 8/14/2024 at 11:47 AM, Schurkey said:

Wild Guess with no evidence:  The car is now about 27 years old.  The springs are probably originals.  Therefore, it's not unreasonable to assume that the springs have fatigued.  The car IS lower.

Measure ride-height the way GM intends.  I bet you find the vehicle has settled.

I’m trying to lower it about 2-3 inches 

Edited August 17 by 97cutty

[Amanita]

Making some Frankenstein coilovers is probably the easiest way to do it, but your car will handle worse because of it. That leaf spring in the back gives the car some extra stability that allows it to run a smaller sway bar. Keep that in mind if you want to do any sort of spirited driving with the car.

[Schurkey]

IS there a leaf spring in back?  I thought the newer W-bodies had coils.  Perhaps I'm wrong.

Dropping the car 3 inches is likely to make the car very evil handling, especially after hitting a bump or four.  What you'd gain in reduced center-of-gravity is lost with reduced suspension travel and compromised control-arm angles and alignment angles.

[rich_e777]

All the other W bodies went to the rear coil over design except the Cutlass, perhaps that final 4 door sedan model had it but IIRC wasnt a W body.

Some Ws like my 1994 Cutlass doesnt even have a sway bar but uses figure 8 looking rubber parts I forgot the name of. To install a sway bar on a car without one from factory (which will have to be done to lower the car) one will need a pair of brackets only found in the salvage yards. 

Might I suggest starting a intro thread and post some pics of your ride?

 

[55trucker]

17 hours ago, 97cutty said:

I’m trying to lower it about 3 inches 

That's a quite a lot,

why would you want to go that low?

as stated that much drop will ruin the geometry of the front suspension at the ball joint. You will lose any or all of the *neutral* geometry of the lower control arms.

[97cutty]

4 hours ago, 55trucker said:

That's a quite a lot,

why would you want to go that low?

as stated that much drop will ruin the geometry of the front suspension at the ball joint. You will lose any or all of the *neutral* geometry of the lower control arms.

Mb more it would more be like 1-2 with the new wheels and tires

[97cutty]

7 hours ago, rich_e777 said:

All the other W bodies went to the rear coil over design except the Cutlass, perhaps that final 4 door sedan model had it but IIRC wasnt a W body.

Some Ws like my 1994 Cutlass doesnt even have a sway bar but uses figure 8 looking rubber parts I forgot the name of. To install a sway bar on a car without one from factory (which will have to be done to lower the car) one will need a pair of brackets only found in the salvage yards. 

Might I suggest starting a intro thread and post some pics of your ride?

 

yea sure I’ve been thinking ab that, she’s pretty rough rn but im going to be restoring her back to how my uncle had it back in the early 00s but also wanting to do some other things to make it look the best it can 

[97cutty]

20 hours ago, Amanita said:

Making some Frankenstein coilovers is probably the easiest way to do it, but your car will handle worse because of it. That leaf spring in the back gives the car some extra stability that allows it to run a smaller sway bar. Keep that in mind if you want to do any sort of spirited driving with the car.

So would I have to run a bigger sway bar after removing the leaf if I were to go that route? Seems like a custom setup it the move

[Amanita]

35 minutes ago, 97cutty said:

So would I have to run a bigger sway bar after removing the leaf if I were to go that route? Seems like a custom setup it the move

I'd definitely recommend it or your car will be very prone to understeering. You can fit the sway bar from a gen 1.5 Monte Carlo in a 1st gen but its like a half inch wider so youll have to make a slot in the bushing to fit it or make new bracket mounts. Does the car have FE1 or FE3 suspension? FE3 gives you the largest 1st gen rear sway bar but its still pretty small.

[97cutty]

4 hours ago, Amanita said:

I'd definitely recommend it or your car will be very prone to understeering. You can fit the sway bar from a gen 1.5 Monte Carlo in a 1st gen but its like a half inch wider so youll have to make a slot in the bushing to fit it or make new bracket mounts. Does the car have FE1 or FE3 suspension? FE3 gives you the largest 1st gen rear sway bar but its still pretty small.

I’d say probably the fe1, I think the fe3 was only for convertibles but I should be able to make the 1.5 gen monte sway bar work 

[97cutty]

On 8/14/2024 at 7:35 AM, Bake82 said:

Front - either build your own coilovers, find some of the unobtanium 95-99 lumina/monte springs, or cut a coil off the front factory spring 

 

rear - build your own coilovers, or call birchmount springs in burlington Ontario and se if they will build you a new spring like they did 15-20 yrs ago.  

 

It's a tough go now to lower the car these days

 How much would the “unobtanium 95-99 lumina/monte” springs drop it? Also do you know any info with custom building some coilovers? Mostly concerned about the rear. 

Edited August 16 by 97cutty

[Amanita]

1 hour ago, 97cutty said:

I’d say probably the fe1, I think the fe3 was only for convertibles but I should be able to make the 1.5 gen monte sway bar work 

FE3 should've been available as an option for any variety of Cutlass, as far as I'm aware FE1 is more common for Sedans and FE3 is more common for Coupes. '97 was a weird year though since they were phasing out the Cutlass Supreme, you can check by finding the sticker in the trunk with all the RPO codes. It looks something like this.

Edited August 16 by Amanita

[97cutty]

1 hour ago, Amanita said:

FE3 should've been available as an option for any variety of Cutlass, as far as I'm aware FE1 is more common for Sedans and FE3 is more common for Coupes. '97 was a weird year though since they were phasing out the Cutlass Supreme, you can check by finding the sticker in the trunk with all the RPO codes. It looks something like this.

Can’t find a sticker like that in the trunk there’s one for the tires and towing capacity. Is there anyway I can tell by looking at the suspension itself ?

[97cutty]

On 8/14/2024 at 5:57 PM, Amanita said:

Making some Frankenstein coilovers is probably the easiest way to do it, but your car will handle worse because of it. That leaf spring in the back gives the car some extra stability that allows it to run a smaller sway bar. Keep that in mind if you want to do any sort of spirited driving with the car.

you have any experience with making coilovers for these? parts, specs etc.

[Amanita]

35 minutes ago, 97cutty said:

Can’t find a sticker like that in the trunk there’s one for the tires and towing capacity. Is there anyway I can tell by looking at the suspension itself ?

My car is on the other side of the state currently so I can't confirm this but I think it's under the cover for the spare tire. If it isn't there, @ManicMechanic should be able to tell you what options you have with the VIN. Checking the diameter of the rear sway bar with calipers might be the easiest way to know if you have FE1 or FE3 otherwise. I think FE3 rear sway bars are 12mm, I do not know what size FE1 sway bars are, or if first gens even have them at all. Second gen FE1 cars have massive sway bars in comparison, around 20mm in diameter. My '96 Grand Prix has FE3 suspension and it is pretty nimble, my '98 Grand Prix has FE1 and it is really prone to understeer.

31 minutes ago, 97cutty said:

you have any experience with making coilovers for these? parts, specs etc.

I do not, there's a thread somewhere on this site that talks about making them but it has been years since I read through it. I'll look for it tomorrow when I get a chance.

Edited August 16 by Amanita

[97cutty]

9 hours ago, Amanita said:

My car is on the other side of the state currently so I can't confirm this but I think it's under the cover for the spare tire. If it isn't there, @ManicMechanic should be able to tell you what options you have with the VIN. Checking the diameter of the rear sway bar with calipers might be the easiest way to know if you have FE1 or FE3 otherwise. I think FE3 rear sway bars are 12mm, I do not know what size FE1 sway bars are, or if first gens even have them at all. Second gen FE1 cars have massive sway bars in comparison, around 20mm in diameter. My '96 Grand Prix has FE3 suspension and it is pretty nimble, my '98 Grand Prix has FE1 and it is really prone to understeer.

I do not, there's a thread somewhere on this site that talks about making them but it has been years since I read through it. I'll look for it tomorrow when I get a chance.

Ok I’ll need to look into my suspension more after I get out of school to see, really appreciate it lmk if you find anything thank you for the info.

Edited August 16 by 97cutty

[Amanita]

Found the posts, and the member who wrote them up is still active. @MemphisMan
@Psych0matt is another active member with a lowered car.

I wanted to lower my car when I first got it but I ended up just replacing all the worn components and installing front and rear strut bars.

[Psych0matt]

My car was super low when I first lowered it, miscalculated the springs in the front (I think) and had to order taller ones, at its tallest it was still rubbing every turn or bump lol but mine are basically regular coilovers made from (at least at the time) ready available parts aside from the mounts, which were custom made by Bxx (who isn’t active here any more but I still talk to him). If you look through my build thread I think most of the info is still there aside from photobucket and th holding my pictures hostage, but it wasn’t too hard conceptually. I did raise it up I think two years ago because I went slightly wider and taller tires so it’s not quite as slammed, but it’s rare I rub. 
 

for simplicity’s sake I can’t say I’d shy away from cutting coils if your goal is lowering, I’ve heard it doesn’t affect the ride too badly. 

[97cutty]

23 hours ago, Amanita said:

My car is on the other side of the state currently so I can't confirm this but I think it's under the cover for the spare tire. If it isn't there, @ManicMechanic should be able to tell you what options you have with the VIN. Checking the diameter of the rear sway bar with calipers might be the easiest way to know if you have FE1 or FE3 otherwise. I think FE3 rear sway bars are 12mm, I do not know what size FE1 sway bars are, or if first gens even have them at all. Second gen FE1 cars have massive sway bars in comparison, around 20mm in diameter. My '96 Grand Prix has FE3 suspension and it is pretty nimble, my '98 Grand Prix has FE1 and it is really prone to understeer.

I do not, there's a thread somewhere on this site that talks about making them but it has been years since I read through it. I'll look for it tomorrow when I get a chance.

Looked more and found the sticker, its the fe1 suspension

[Amanita]

12 minutes ago, 97cutty said:

Looked more and found the sticker, its the fe1 suspension

You'll probably want to find FE3 parts first before you even think of switching to coilovers, the 1st gen w-body chassis is already like a wet noodle with the FE1 suspension and getting rid of the monoleaf will make it worse.
I don't know if the leaf is different but you'll want the sway bars and front coil springs. The strut bar from a Cutlass Supreme convertible won't hurt either.

I feel like I should also mention that not many people have attempted to remove the monoleaf, it's apparently a massive pain in the ass.

Edited August 17 by Amanita