Projectors in Cutlass Sealed Beams

[Quaraxkad]

I've wanted to put projectors with HIDs on my Cutlass for a long time. I finally decided to try it. As far as I know, it's not been done before, if you know otherwise please tell me where I can see the results! There is a company that makes a whole new lamp assembly for the Camaro but it's a solid block of black plastic that I think looks hideous. I've found a bunch of threads about HIDs and projectors in other w-bodies, but nothing specifically for the Cutlass coupes which have unique problems to work around. The original OEM headlamps are two-piece glass assembles, the body and lens are both glass. Those are obviously not candidates for cutting open to install a projector. Newer replacements though have the same glass lens with a metal body, and these are what I'm working with. I bought a pair of 1.8" H1 projectors from eBay. They are the smallest I could find, I knew it was going to be a tight fit in the 2"x5" housing, but it turned out to be almost perfect. I'm still in the experimenting phase but 100% confident I can make it work.

Here's a mock-up of the somewhat complete lamp. It's only held together with sticky-tack at this point, I did this to hold it together and test that there's enough space behind the lamps for the extra depth. I'm pretty sure they will fit without modifications to the car, at least on the drivers side.

 

OEM glass assembly next to metal body with projector.

 

Taking apart the lamp housing was not simple... Heat seems to have no effect on the adhesive used to hold these together. It's very soft and rubbery, heat did not soften it *or* make it tacky. Prying at the edges only resulted in chipping the glass. I ended up cutting a small slot in the metal with a Dremel that I could stick a screwdriver in and apply just enough pressure to slide in some plastic tools and work my way around until the glue peeled away. You can see that small cutout on the far left of the second image above.

This projector has a high-low switch that opens the lowbeam cutoff flap. There's no room for that mechanism once mounted to the housing, so I'm going to permanently affix the cutoff flap in place for lowbeams, and either keep the stock highbeams or do the same retrofit for the highbeams but leave the flap out.

I'm not sure how the stock glass lens will affect the light output. If neccessary, there are aftermarket lamp housings with less patterned glass.

The lamp holder assembly with the built in left/right/up/down adjustment screws can be reused, a portion of it will need to be cut out pass the reflector body through. I need to get another set from the junkyard to experiment with but there hasn't been a Cutlass coupe there in years. There is a 1994 Camaro which has the same lamps, but do they also have the same mounting assembly?

I've ordered a set of bulbs and ballasts to test these out, they won't be here until Friday.

I still need to figure out the best method to mount the projector to the housing. I think the common method is just clumps of JB-Weld.

I feel like I must be missing something, if it was this easy why hasn't it been done many times before?

[Quaraxkad]

Trimmed down the shroud and test fit it. It does need to be trimmed more and pushed deeper in.

 

I have a few options. I can either set the projector lens right up behind the glass, or I can set it back a little. I'm *thinking* as close to the lens as possible will give me the best output. Once I have the bulbs I can test both, but after I cut extra material from the lamp housing to move the projector towards the front (closer to the lens), I won't be able to undo it. I suppose I could do the test outside of the housing as well, just to see how this patterned lens affects the output.

I'm also considering if I should paint the inner housing black or leave it chrome.

[Schurkey]

Marvelous.  Really, really bright yet not focused properly.  A real disaster to meet in the oncoming lane.  Massive, blinding glare.

Completely illegal, definitely unsafe.

Edited November 28, 2022 by Schurkey

[Quaraxkad]

10 hours ago, Schurkey said:

Marvelous.  Really, really bright yet not focused properly.  A real disaster to meet in the oncoming lane.  Massive, blinding glare.

You're thinking of HIDs in halogen housings without projectors.

Edited November 28, 2022 by Quaraxkad

[White93z34]

The main issue you'll run into, and basically the same reason I abandoned this same idea for my Lumina is the fluting on the headlight lens. 

That's to distribute the original halogen lamp's beam pattern in a desirable way, to have projectors work properly you really need to sand that all down and re-polish the lens clear. Otherwise most of the benefit of the projector will be lost.

I did see some people on other parts of the internet vacuum form lexan or composite material over OEM lens to create a clear cover, but that's outside of the scope of work I'm going to be capable of. After endless sanding on a test housing I had I threw in the towel, I think the miniquads are glass so that might even be more difficult. 

As for the legality, technically straying AT ALL from the DOT approved lighting that came on your car is illegal. I'd say its extremely unlikely anyone would ever pitch a fit about it unless your state/provenance/territory has laws around that for a safety inspection or, of course if your car is SO obnoxious that it gets noticed for that. 

And TBH modern OEM LED headlights on pickup trucks I find to be AT LEAST as obnoxious as some of the dumbest kids putting 6000k HIDs in factory housings on their cars back in the day so thats just where I stand on it. 

[Quaraxkad]

I tested the stock lenses pointed at the wall, and there wasn't a whole lot of difference between the bare projector vs passing through the stock glass lens. There's still a very strong and straight well defined cutoff, and only very minimal amount of light above the cutoff in very small squares. But even so, as I mentioned before, if the stock lenses turn out to be no good I already have a plan b anyway. Once I get one assembly done I'll do a side-by-side comparison of stock. I just need to do a little more trimming of the housing, make some flat spots to ensure a level and straight alignment, and then mount it in place. I suspect JB Weld will be the solution for that, even though it's the "hacky-est" method I can't think of any other way for this particular setup.

[Schurkey]

On 11/28/2022 at 7:59 AM, Quaraxkad said:

You're thinking of HIDs in halogen housings without projectors.

I'm thinking of any half-baked mods to a lens and reflector/housing designed for a specific type and position of the bulb filament.  You screw with the filament position, you screw with the light distribution through the lens.

 

The better solution to all of this is to verify the power delivered to the OEM-style (Legal) bulb; and the resistance on the ground circuit.  When the ground side has been verified and corrected if needed, you need to assure that the bulbs operate on AT LEAST 12.8 volts; and up to about 14 volts but not more than that.  Headlights are rated for brightness at 12.8 volts, Depending on the source, headlights are rated for service life at either 13.2 volts, or 14 volts.  Higher voltage DRAMATICALLY reduces service life.   OEM wiring often has the headlights running on less than 12 volts even with the alternator charging at 14+ volts.

When it's me, I install a pair of relays triggered by the high- and low-beam OEM wiring.  Each relay routes power from a convenient, low-impedance source through SEPARATE high and low beam SELF-RESETTING CIRCUIT BREAKERS (NOT fuses, NOT fusible links, NOT manual-reset circuit breakers, and NOT one circuit breaker for both high- and low-beam.)  The usual problem I have is keeping the voltage at the headlights DOWN to 14 volts or less, so I use new, clean wire of the same gauge as OEM--18 gauge for low-beam, 16 gauge for high-beam.  When your OEM headlights have clear lenses, undamaged reflectors, proper power and adequate ground, and are aimed properly, you won't need the "projectors".

[Quaraxkad]

11 minutes ago, Schurkey said:

I'm thinking of any half-baked mods to a lens and reflector/housing designed for a specific type and position of the bulb filament.  You screw with the filament position, you screw with the light distribution through the lens.

You're missing the point entirely. The housing and reflector bowl are completely, 100% irrelevant because I am using projectors. The stock housing is nothing more than a mounting bracket in this scenario. Filament position is irrelevant, because I'm not putting bare HID bulbs in halogen housings. The *only* thing I need to worry about is alignment/aim and the lens that the light is passing through after exiting the projector lens.

[Schurkey]

Photos from relay installation in my '88 K1500.  Your vehicle similar, since they both use sealed beam headlights.

 

The light seen on the reflector/housing of this sealed-beam is coming from the inside--not a "trouble light" shining on the outside.  It's light "leaking" out of the headlight assembly instead of being reflected out the front.  Reflector corrosion is a known problem even with "sealed" beam headlights.

 

 

OEM-style connectors installed so that the headlight wiring can be returned to original system if desired.

 

Circuit breakers, weatherproof rubber covers and plastic trim panel installed later.  Yellow power wires are actually larger gauge than needed--but that's what comes with the circuit-breaker holders.

 

Relays in place, connected to power supply and OEM harness, relays grounded with separate wire and star-washer against bare metal of the inner fender.

 

Everyone bitches about W-bodies with sagging rear spring(s), but how many folks re-aim the headlights to compensate?

Edited February 12, 2023 by Schurkey

[Schurkey]

10 minutes ago, Quaraxkad said:

You're missing the point entirely. The housing and reflector bowl are completely, 100% irrelevant because I am using projectors. The stock housing is nothing more than a mounting bracket in this scenario. Filament position is irrelevant, because I'm not putting bare HID bulbs in halogen housings. The *only* thing I need to worry about is alignment/aim and the lens that the light is passing through after exiting the projector lens.

Fine.

How, exactly, do you plan to remove the fluting of the headlamp assembly lens?

Edited February 12, 2023 by Schurkey

[Quaraxkad]

1 hour ago, Schurkey said:

How, exactly, do you plan to remove the fluting of the headlamp assembly lens?

I won't. As mentioned previously, my initial tests showed the stock lens had *very* little impact on the light output. Once I have a more complete unit I will know for sure. And again, even if the stock lens is *not* suitable, I already have a solution. Aftermarket replacements for these lights exist with plain, clear lenses.

[GTP091]

This is very interesting project. Not something I’d tackle as I like the OEM setup with silver stars just fine. Still will be good to see the result.  Is it finished up yet?