New owner, old fan

[96fan]

Howdy everyone. Longtime fan of the 89-96 GPs. Recently picked up a 96 SE w/GTP package. Car actually had original window sticker in glove box. Looking forward to good conversation and good information. Picked her up a week ago from a small lot. $1800 plus tax. 138k miles. Looks great other than some clear coat peeling. Desperate need of some love. Just got new oil and filter and air filter in it. New interstate battery. Replaced cracked tires. Have transmission filter and fluid and fuel filter in hand, waiting on time to do those. Just ordered new plugs, wires and ignition coils as it has a miss under load at low rpm. Any insight to things to look for or look over is greatly appreciated. Thanks everyone. 

[94 olds vert]

Welcome to the site! Nice looking Pontiacs you have. On the 3.4l you will want to remove the inspection cover for the timing cover and get a look at the timing belt. 

[96fan]

Thanks. The T/A is a 96 as well. Obviously 98-02 taillights. Those were done by previous owner. Definitely a popular mod but I prefer the 93-97. Anywho... I will check the belt. I've heard/read they are a common issue needing replaced every 60k-80k. Please correct if wrong. Hopefully its not in to bad of shape. I'm hoping to do in 6-12mos which will be 6k-12k miles. I figure the timing chain can get done at the same time. Any other tips/tricks etc?

[94 olds vert]

8 minutes ago, 96fan said:

Thanks. The T/A is a 96 as well. Obviously 98-02 taillights. Those were done by previous owner. Definitely a popular mod but I prefer the 93-97. Anywho... I will check the belt. I've heard/read they are a common issue needing replaced every 60k-80k. Please correct if wrong. Hopefully its not in to bad of shape. I'm hoping to do in 6-12mos which will be 6k-12k miles. I figure the timing chain can get done at the same time. Any other tips/tricks etc?

Every 60k to 80k is a safe belt for one of those timing belts.  There' s a lot of good information on this site for the 3.4l (LQ1). 

[55trucker]

13 minutes ago, 96fan said:

I figure the timing chain can get done at the same time. Any other tips/tricks etc?

Are you familiar with the procedure involved for getting at the timing chain?

[96fan]

13 minutes ago, 55trucker said:

Are you familiar with the procedure involved for getting at the timing chain?

Negative. I'm no where near a mechanic.. simple stuff such as oil changes(even though I have horrible luck with filters), air filters, plugs and wires on 350sbc's lol, in-line fuel filters.. etc.. I'm no dummy but I also no time. My wife works opposite shifts as I do and we have 3 kids.. 2 under 5yrs. I have a good friend that does most of my work and I help/gopher stuff.

[96fan]

I've read the intake manifold needs removed to do the plugs.. if thats true then I'll need a gasket for it.. any other gaskets needed when doing plugs because of the removal of misc. Things?

[94 olds vert]

36 minutes ago, 96fan said:

I've read the intake manifold needs removed to do the plugs.. if thats true then I'll need a gasket for it.. any other gaskets needed when doing plugs because of the removal of misc. Things?

The intake gaskets are a pretty simple job on these. I've done the lower and upper ones myself. The rear spark plugs can be done without removing the upper manifold. If you are going to do it anyway, that would be a good time to replace the plugs. 

You will want to replace the gasket on the oil pump drive seal. It's kind of a pain to do from what I remember, but it's not that bad of job when doing the upper the lower intakes on this engine. This thread here has some good information. Crazy K's post is good in this thread, unfortunately the pictures no longer work. 

 

[55trucker]

1 hour ago, 96fan said:

I've read the intake manifold needs removed to do the plugs.. if thats true then I'll need a gasket for it.. any other gaskets needed when doing plugs because of the removal of misc. Things?

The engine is for all intent & purpose a Hemi Engine, the plugs are front & center, no need to pull the intake at all, but what usually does need servicing are the plug 0-ring seals down in the carrier cover. (front & rear)

as for the timing cover...one has to pull off the entire front assembly of the engine to get at the timing chain, this is considerably more involved than the timing cover on a 3400 pushrod engine.

Not to say that the chain should be ignored, on this particular engine the timing chain is probably the most disregarded servicable item in the engine. Chains stretch & this one no different, the only difference where this chain is concerned is it is not a precision fit item, it makes use of a tensioner on the backside of the chain.

[96fan]

So misinformation abound. I know I've seen the motor mount/dogbone trick to roll motor forward but thought a change on the 96 model didn't have the "holes" or "recess in the outside of the manifold to reach the plugs.. if no removal is necessary that would be great for immediate future. 

So what about the plug seals in the carrier cover? What's entailed there?

Correct me if I misread but it sounds like I could possibly put off timing chain and do just timing belt for now?

Pulling timing cover to inspect belt.. what exactly will I be looking for? Slop in the belt?

Thanks for all your help guys. Greatly appreciated. 

[jiggity76]

17 minutes ago, 96fan said:

So misinformation abound. I know I've seen the motor mount/dogbone trick to roll motor forward but thought a change on the 96 model didn't have the "holes" or "recess in the outside of the manifold to reach the plugs.. if no removal is necessary that would be great for immediate future. 

So what about the plug seals in the carrier cover? What's entailed there?

Correct me if I misread but it sounds like I could possibly put off timing chain and do just timing belt for now?

Pulling timing cover to inspect belt.. what exactly will I be looking for? Slop in the belt?

Thanks for all your help guys. Greatly appreciated. 

I hope I'm not overstepping but I think this is what 55trucker is referring to.  The gaskets or seals on the cam carrier cover for the spark plug holes.  These guys.

 

Edited February 27, 2022 by jiggity76

[jiggity76]

18 minutes ago, 96fan said:

So misinformation abound. I know I've seen the motor mount/dogbone trick to roll motor forward but thought a change on the 96 model didn't have the "holes" or "recess in the outside of the manifold to reach the plugs.. if no removal is necessary that would be great for immediate future. 

So what about the plug seals in the carrier cover? What's entailed there?

Correct me if I misread but it sounds like I could possibly put off timing chain and do just timing belt for now?

Pulling timing cover to inspect belt.. what exactly will I be looking for? Slop in the belt?

Thanks for all your help guys. Greatly appreciated. 

For the timing CHAIN, I would get to it whenever you can.  If the CHAIN is off due to stretching, the whole timing system and BELT will be off as well.  It all starts with the chain.  

When pulling the timing or inspection cover, look for any frayed remnants of the belt or any belt debris, basically anything that looks bad.  If the belt is solid, no cracks or pieces of it coming off, it might be ok.  If you don't know how long it's been mileage wise when the belt was last changed, do it now!  Starting a maintenance log or history on these motors is critical.  The whole better safe than sorry tactic.

Welcome by the way!  Nice looking Prix.

[55trucker]

26 minutes ago, 96fan said:

So misinformation abound. I know I've seen the motor mount/dogbone trick to roll motor forward but thought a change on the 96 model didn't have the "holes" or "recess in the outside of the manifold to reach the plugs.

 

The LQ1 does not *tilt*, the 2.8/ 3xxx pushrod engines that have a pair of upper dogbones were the *rollers*. The LQ1 makes use of 2 engine mounts under the pan preventing it from tilting forward, that's why there is just 1 upper dogbone.

Where the O-ring seals are concerned Greg's photos are pretty well self explanatory.

 

[96fan]

20 minutes ago, jiggity76 said:

I hope I'm not overstepping but I think this is what 55trucker is referring to.  The gaskets or seals on the cam carrier cover for the spark plug holes.  These guys.

 

Thanks for the pics. Are those a simple "unbolt" like a valve cover on a 350sbc? Are those known to go bad and I should plan to replace regardless since I'll be doing plugs?

[96fan]

16 minutes ago, jiggity76 said:

For the timing CHAIN, I would get to it whenever you can.  If the CHAIN is off due to stretching, the whole timing system and BELT will be off as well.  It all starts with the chain.  

When pulling the timing or inspection cover, look for any frayed remnants of the belt or any belt debris, basically anything that looks bad.  If the belt is solid, no cracks or pieces of it coming off, it might be ok.  If you don't know how long it's been mileage wise when the belt was last changed, do it now!  Starting a maintenance log or history on these motors is critical.  The whole better safe than sorry tactic.

Welcome by the way!  Nice looking Prix.

Thanks. I have absolutely no idea about the history of the car other than the small lot I got it from has had it since November of 2021 I'm sure not being driven much and it came from an auction out of PA. Also.. like new tires were severely cracked so I'm assuming it hasn't been driven much in the last couple years. Although it did have a 9/21 expiration on an inspection sticker. I have definitely started a log of anything and everything I'm doing to it. I do it with every vehicle I own. Information is a beautiful thing and always helps to make informed decisions.

[jiggity76]

4 minutes ago, 96fan said:

Thanks for the pics. Are those a simple "unbolt" like a valve cover on a 350sbc? Are those known to go bad and I should plan to replace regardless since I'll be doing plugs?

Yup, you'll just have to pull off that vacuum line that goes into the passenger side of it and then it's 4 - 8 MM or 10 MM, I can't remember, bolts that stay with the cover.  They will not fully come out as they are locked into the cover with gaskets or something on the underside.  

[jiggity76]

3 minutes ago, 96fan said:

Thanks. I have absolutely no idea about the history of the car other than the small lot I got it from has had it since November of 2021 I'm sure not being driven much and it came from an auction out of PA. Also.. like new tires were severely cracked so I'm assuming it hasn't been driven much in the last couple years. Although it did have a 9/21 expiration on an inspection sticker. I have definitely started a log of anything and everything I'm doing to it. I do it with every vehicle I own. Information is a beautiful thing and always helps to make informed decisions.

Thanks!  Here's a good video that a member did awhile back of the timing belt change out.  He's a good dude and no doubt this video should help you out!

 

 

[Amanita]

Looks good! I have a '96 SE that I got in 2018, I saved it from going to the junkyard when it failed state inspection for the previous owner. Though my car only has the 3.1. I put a GTP hood on in 2020 and recently got these crosslace wheels restored for it. If you have any questions about repairs, especially for the suspension, let me know!

Edited February 27, 2022 by Amanita

[55trucker]

26 minutes ago, 96fan said:

Are those known to go bad and I should plan to replace regardless since I'll be doing plugs?

When you pull out the plugs check for oil in the bottom of the tubes, the oil gets in there when those O-rings fail, usually the plug/s will be coated in some degree with oil. It will also show up on the surface of the plug boots

Edited February 27, 2022 by 55trucker

[96fan]

54 minutes ago, 55trucker said:

When you pull out the plugs check for oil in the bottom of the tubes, the oil gets in there when those O-rings fail, usually the plug/s will be coated in some degree with oil. It will also show up on the surface of the plug boots

Ok thanks.

[96fan]

1 hour ago, jiggity76 said:

Thanks!  Here's a good video that a member did awhile back of the timing belt change out.  He's a good dude and no doubt this video should help you out!

 

 

Ok thanks.

[96fan]

1 hour ago, Amanita said:

Looks good! I have a '96 SE that I got in 2018, I saved it from going to the junkyard when it failed state inspection for the previous owner. Though my car only has the 3.1. I put a GTP hood on in 2020 and recently got these crosslace wheels restored for it. If you have any questions about repairs, especially for the suspension, let me know!

Sharp car sir. Black looks good on every vehicle and even better on these G/Ps. I like the Crosslace wheels aswell.. I'm partial as I'm also a 3rd gen T/A fan.

[Amanita]

46 minutes ago, 96fan said:

Sharp car sir. Black looks good on every vehicle and even better on these G/Ps. I like the Crosslace wheels aswell.. I'm partial as I'm also a 3rd gen T/A fan.

Thank you! If you want a set of crosslaces I'll keep my eyes out for them. My car needs a bit of work, the paint is completely ruined on everything, so I plan on panting it the metallic green Grand Prixs came in. I love this car though, It's a lot of fun, even on the track with its 150 horsepower.

[96fan]

Rock auto asks the size of front rotor for a 96 G/P. I know I'm being lazy and can measure it but do yall know which would have came on the car? I'd like to think the GTP package gave it the larger rotors but I can't seem to find that info either.. and we all know what assume means. Thanks.

[94 olds vert]

in 1996 Pontiac switched to 11.25 inch brake rotors. In 1995 brake rotors were 10.5 inches. There are some 1995s that have the bigger front brakes from the factory.