96 CS sedan brakes.

[jiggity76]

Next week, I plan on putting new rotors/pads on all four corners of the 96 CS sedan.  Anything I have to pay attention too or is it pretty straight forward?

[GTP091]

Nothing unusual. The caliper bracket will need to come off to change the rotors.  They take a #60 torx on the front (96’ should be the sameness 91–93?)  and are a real bugger to get off as they’re on the backside, get some penetrating oil on them 2 days ahead of time.

  Make sure you have a way to push the piston back into the bore and keep an eye on the reservoir level so it doesn’t overflow.

If your doing the whole car you should start at the rears and flush the fluid if it’s unknown when it was done last. Don’t forget to grease the slides!

Edited November 27, 2018 by GTP091

[jiggity76]

Thank you.  I knew about greasing the slides, I also bought new hardware just in case.  I was planning on using the old pads and a large C clamp to push the piston back.  The original owner isn't showing any paperwork on a brake service and with it having 76,000 miles on it, I wonder if it has the original pads/rotors. 

So start at the rear, flush the system, then continue to the front.  Any torque specs I should pay attention to? 

[Imp558]

The rears don't push in with a clamp, you need that tool that looks like a cube to turn the caliper pistons in. The fronts work with a clamp.

I'll post up your torque specs tonight. 

[walterdude]

If you have trouble with that stupid cube thing you can "CAREFULLY" grab the piston with a Channel Locks or a pipe wrench... Gotta be REAL careful to grab at the very end,,, being SURE not to grab it where the seal rides... MUCH better choice,,, get one of the compressors that have a crank that turns the piston AND compresses the piston... Any Auto Parts Store should have a loaner,,, OR they are pretty cheap to buy...

GOD!!! I HATE those cubes!!!

Tom B...

Edited November 28, 2018 by walterdude

[Imp558]

I haven't had any problem with the cube except a fubar caliper that wasn't having anything to do with turning because it was junk. But absolutely be very careful not to slip and nick a seal. Just grip the ratchet by the head and push hard and turn. It's a really nice idea to use a little piece of rope to suspend the caliper from the top of the strut (just a loop of rope with a clove hitch on the line so it can be adjusted works killer.)

That way there's no risk of ending up with a caliper suspended by the hose.

 

 

[jiggity76]

All you guys are awesome, thankyou!  I think I won't chance it and either get a loaner or buy that tool just to be on the safe side since this will be the first W-Body brake change I've done.  Thanks for the torque specs Imp!  I've been wanting to get an inch lb wrench for awhile now and this will be good for that.  I really like to torque things down in the correct sequence and torque just so that it's done right.

Oh yeah, I have some good wire to hang the caliper out of the way.  I used it on the 87 GMC front brakes and the 94 Silverado too, worked great.

Edited November 27, 2018 by jiggity76

[Imp558]

There's a nice tool, but it's not something that happens a lot so I just have the little $8 cube thing from a chain parts store.

https://www.amazon.com/ABN-Universal-Caliper-Compression-12-Piece/dp/B00GAC768Q/ref=asc_df_B00GAC768Q/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=312049103272&hvpos=1o4&hvnetw=g&hvrand=15590373981201466894&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=m&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=21176&hvtargid=pla-569095540313&psc=1&tag=&ref=&adgrpid=62837065100&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvadid=312049103272&hvpos=1o4&hvnetw=g&hvrand=15590373981201466894&hvqmt=&hvdev=m&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=21176&hvtargid=pla-569095540313

[jiggity76]

That price isn't bad at all.  I'm going to try my local parts store first and if that doesn't work, I'm going to order that.  I have tomorrow and Thursday off so I'll check it out.  I want to do the brakes next week so this week will be a good time to get prepared.  I already have all the brake parts in my garage.  Thanks for the link Imp!

So you just use the tool on the rear calipers and turn or screw the piston back until it stops?  I don't want to stress or overdo it.

Edited November 27, 2018 by jiggity76

[walterdude]

3 hours ago, Imp558 said:

There's a nice tool, but it's not something that happens a lot so I just have the little $8 cube thing from a chain parts store.

https://www.amazon.com/ABN-Universal-Caliper-Compression-12-Piece/dp/B00GAC768Q/ref=asc_df_B00GAC768Q/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=312049103272&hvpos=1o4&hvnetw=g&hvrand=15590373981201466894&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=m&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=21176&hvtargid=pla-569095540313&psc=1&tag=&ref=&adgrpid=62837065100&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvadid=312049103272&hvpos=1o4&hvnetw=g&hvrand=15590373981201466894&hvqmt=&hvdev=m&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=21176&hvtargid=pla-569095540313

Yeah,,, that's the sucker!!! It REALLY does make life easier,,, See,, it compresses the piston like a C-Clamp would... Plus it turns the piston in... Awhile ago did the brakes on a VW Beetle and the ONLY way we could get it done was to get one of those sets...

HAY!!! This post is the first post from my new (to me) computer!!! How's it look?!?!?!

Tom B...

[jiggity76]

Good to me!  I just checked Oreilly's Auto Parts and I can rent the tool for $59.99.  I'm just going to order the one from Amazon.  I'll eventually have three W's so I'm just going to get it.  They'll all need brakes at some point and I don't want to keep renting it.

[jiggity76]

I just ordered that kit.  $17.99 with free shipping!

[walterdude]

27 minutes ago, jiggity76 said:

Good to me!  I just checked Oreilly's Auto Parts and I can rent the tool for $59.99.  I'm just going to order the one from Amazon.  I'll eventually have three W's so I'm just going to get it.  They'll all need brakes at some point and I don't want to keep renting it.

Just as long as your Ws have discs on the rear.. If you've got drums that tool is useless!!! As for "renting" a tool,,, most Auto Parts Store will charge the cost of the item and refund your $$ when you return it.. So,,, it costs nothing in the end...

Good luck,,,

Tom B...

[jiggity76]

Yeah, all discs.  I know they return your money but I figured for $18 bucks, it would save me from driving to the parts store to pick it up each time.  Thank you, I'll post how good or bad it went.

[Imp558]

Alldata didn't even show drums as an option on the Cutlass for 1996.

After I convert my GS to second gen spindles I'll probably never touch my cube tool again. 

[jiggity76]

I ran down to Des Moines today, she's shimming a little when I brake at high speed.  At low speeds, the rear brakes moan a little too.  Should I try setting the parking brake?  I haven't tried it yet and I'm a little scared.

[55trucker]

On 11/27/2018 at 4:02 PM, GTP091 said:

Nothing unusual. The caliper bracket will need to come off to change the rotors.  They take a #60 torx on the front (96’ should be the sameness 91–93?)  and are a real bugger to get off as they’re on the backside, get some penetrating oil on them 2 days ahead of time.

  Make sure you have a way to push the piston back into the bore and keep an eye on the reservoir level so it doesn’t overflow.

If your doing the whole car you should start at the rears and flush the fluid if it’s unknown when it was done last. Don’t forget to grease the slides!

If you have a propane torch on hand it may be needed, if they are seized more often than not they need to be heated up right at the bracket flange surface where the threads are. The *bolt* is a two-piece item, there is the main torx head bolt & the tapered portion is actually a sleeve that is supposed to be free of the bolt.

Do not reverse the direction of fluid flow, when doing the pad installation back off the bleeder screws & push the caliper pistons back in forcing out the old fluid out the bleeder. This Especially important if the car has ABS brakes. Take a close look at the rubber boots at all four corners, purchase a set of new boots for good measure (the car IS 20 years old). Also closely check the flex hoses for their condition, same course of action as the boots. The parking brake plays an important part of keeping the rears adjusted properly, inspect the park system for problems.

Me not knowing where the car has lived it's life get under the rear suspension & try to get a look up over the rear spring to see what condition the right rear brake line is in, if the car has seen salt that is where that brake line will rot, it is obscured from view by the spring.

[jiggity76]

I do have a torch and I got new hardware with the bolts that your talking about. 

Thank you for mentioning the direction of fluid flow thing.  I will do it that way and inspect the rubber boots.  Are those readily available at parts stores?  I want to get a set of them.  How hard are they to change out?  The car does have ABS as far as I know, it's a 96 so I'm assuming ABS was standard by then.  What areas of the parking brake system do I need to pay attention too?  I'm worried that if I set the brake then I won't be able to get it to release and then I'm stuck.

The car has always been a Minnesota car and they use a lot of road salt.  The car only has 76,000 miles on it and the underside is very solid so it probably hasn't seen a lot of winter use in it's life.  The trailing arm mount areas and floorpan structure is the first thing I checked before I committed to buying it, again in very good shape.

[walterdude]

My 99 Lumina was a NON ABS car... My friend is Parts Manager at the Local Chevy dealer and nobody there could believe that there were ANY NON ABS Luminas made in that year... As far as anyone knew if it was ABS it would say it on the brake pedal... Of course mine didn't... EVERYONE at the dealer came out and looked!!! The surest way I know of checking is to look at the front wheels/brakes... if there are wires going to the sensor at the wheel bearings,,, it's ABS...

Luck,,

Tom B...

I still HATE ABS!!!

[jiggity76]

1 hour ago, walterdude said:

My 99 Lumina was a NON ABS car... My friend is Parts Manager at the Local Chevy dealer and nobody there could believe that there were ANY NON ABS Luminas made in that year... As far as anyone knew if it was ABS it would say it on the brake pedal... Of course mine didn't... EVERYONE at the dealer came out and looked!!! The surest way I know of checking is to look at the front wheels/brakes... if there are wires going to the sensor at the wheel bearings,,, it's ABS...

Luck,,

Tom B...

I still HATE ABS!!!

That's crazy!  Maybe my car doesn't have ABS.  I'm going to look at the window sticker again and of course I'll check for wires going to the brakes when I'm changing them.  It also has that weird windshield washer reservoir laying over the battery so I'm assuming it's got ABS.  Thanks for your story!

[55trucker]

For 96 the ABS system is the Delco VI system, instantly recognized when the hood is opened & one sees the rectangular control module attached to the port side of the master cylinder.

[Imp558]

ABS is certainly something one would see at a glance. This is my 96 and that masterpiece of crap hanging off the MC is the ABS pump and valve assembly. 

[jiggity76]

1 hour ago, 55trucker said:

For 96 the ABS system is the Delco VI system, instantly recognized when the hood is opened & one sees the rectangular control module attached to the port side of the master cylinder.

 

10 minutes ago, Imp558 said:

ABS is certainly something one would see at a glance. This is my 96 and that masterpiece of crap hanging off the MC is the ABS pump and valve assembly. 

Yup, mine looks just like that.  I have ABS.

[snippits]

Changed the front rotors and pads on my 92 Cutlass Supreme a few weeks ago. Changed just the pads on the back.  The rear factory solid rotors looked fine to me.

Turn your wheels all the way to the right or left when removing the caliper brackets on the front.  Makes it easier to get a good shot at the caliper bracket bolts.  It does take a T-60.  I did not have one, so I had to buy a GearWrench 1/2 drive T-60 from Advance Auto.  It was not an impact T-60.  Nobody had an impact T-60 in stock locally.

The front caliper bracket bolts are on there good 148 ft. lbs..  I soaked them with Liquid Wrench, and then used a 600 ft lbs reverse torque impact, and they would not move.  Got out my big breaker bar, and all but one came with some good grunts.  That last one was a bear, but I finally got it out.

My boots for the front calipers were still in good shape no tears.  I did have a new set to install that I bought from RockAuto cheap.  Basically, all you do is use a flat head screw driver, and pry the metal part of the boot that seats up against the boot bore away from the boot bore.  Clean it all up, and then install the new one.  I did not do it because my boots were good, but that's the way I was going to do it.  Next time it needs new front pads I will change the boots.

The parking brake cable adjustment is on the left rear side on my 92.  If you loosen the adjuster nut,(move it towards the hood) both rear caliper parking brake cables will be a piece of cake to take off and put back.  Adjust the nut as far it will go towards the front.  Spray some penetrating spray on the parking brake cable threaded shaft before turning the nut because they can get dirty and rusty.

Your rear parking brake cables on the 96 might be different than my 92, so disregard if that's the case.

Edited November 29, 2018 by snippits

[jiggity76]

33 minutes ago, snippits said:

Changed the front rotors and pads on my 92 Cutlass Supreme a few weeks ago. Changed just the pads on the back.  The rear factory solid rotors looked fine to me.

Turn your wheels all the way to the right or left when removing the caliper brackets on the front.  Makes it easier to get a good shot at the caliper bracket bolts.  It does take a T-60.  I did not have one, so I had to buy a GearWrench 1/2 drive T-60 from Advance Auto.  It was not an impact T-60.  Nobody had an impact T-60 in stock locally.

The front caliper bracket bolts are on there good 148 ft. lbs..  I soaked them with Liquid Wrench, and then used a 600 ft lbs reverse torque impact, and they would not move.  Got out my big breaker bar, and all but one came with some good grunts.  That last one was a bear, but I finally got it out.

My boots for the front calipers were still in good shape no tears.  I did have a new set to install that I bought from RockAuto cheap.  Basically, all you do is use a flat head screw driver, and pry the metal part of the boot that seats up against the boot bore away from the boot bore.  Clean it all up, and then install the new one.  I did not do it because my boots were good, but that's the way I was going to do it.  Next time it needs new front pads I will change the boots.

The parking brake cable adjustment is on the left rear side on my 92.  If you loosen the adjuster nut,(move it towards the hood) both rear caliper parking brake cables will be a piece of cake to take off and put back.  Adjust the nut as far it will go towards the front.  Spray some penetrating spray on the parking brake cable threaded shaft before turning the nut because they can get dirty and rusty.

Your rear parking brake cables on the 96 might be different than my 92, so disregard if that's the case.

Great info, thanks so much.  I believe I have a T60 and I definitely know my buddy has one.  I'll check out RockAuto for the rubber boots, I use them a lot and they're prices are pretty good.  I'll look at my car but in what general area is that parking brake nut?