Blaze420 Posted December 4, 2003 Report Posted December 4, 2003 Anyone know where I can get some High Performance Headers for my 90' Chevy Lumina Euro 3.1? I can't seem to find any. Quote
slick Posted December 4, 2003 Report Posted December 4, 2003 Make them, or wait for me to get some money. Quote
Redfox340 Posted December 4, 2003 Report Posted December 4, 2003 Like Slick94prix is inferring, they are not headers available for the W-Body. IIRC Vegeta was working on a pair for the DOHC to see flow numbers, but honestly, that's where it about stops. There has been a dead-rumor that the 3400 Grand Am header would work, but they have the wrong exhaust opening. - Erik Quote
slick Posted December 4, 2003 Report Posted December 4, 2003 Unless you send me some money so I can finish my set and make a few more sets. Quote
Redfox340 Posted December 4, 2003 Report Posted December 4, 2003 Unless you send me some money so I can finish my set and make a few more sets. Ooooohhh... I like... :shock: - Erik Quote
Blaze420 Posted December 4, 2003 Author Report Posted December 4, 2003 Can you tell me how to make them then? Quote
slick Posted December 4, 2003 Report Posted December 4, 2003 Basically it takes time, planning, and money. For the headplate flanges, go to my cardomain site on the third page, exact measurements for your 3.1http://www.cardomain.com/id/slick94prix For the best results, use 1.5" tubing for the primaries, 2.25" crossover pipe, and 2.5" exhaust. You need the money to buy all this stuff. I would try to find steel tubing because a tig welder is harder to come across. I'm lucky that i have a good friend with a welder, so i can weld my steel tubing. If you don't know somebody with a welder, then be prepared to spend some bones. Also, your gonna spend a few bucks cutting the tubing and getting it bent. You will also need to make some custom gaskets, but you can buy gasket material for dirt cheap, so that's the easy part. Mainly, you just need to design, and find somebody that can mandrel bend tubing and weld. Quote
RedZMonte Posted December 5, 2003 Report Posted December 5, 2003 I can make a set of headers.. if someone comes with cash in hande and brings a car down i will make headers... fact of the matter is the 3.1L mpfi will not gain enough power to justify the cost of a set of headers. better off turboing or juicing the motor. Redz Quote
Vegeta Posted December 5, 2003 Report Posted December 5, 2003 how much power does a 3.1 gain from headers, shane. How about a modified high compression 3.1 with custom intake and a cam? How much would you be charging to make it not worthwhile? Quote
GPXSS Posted December 5, 2003 Report Posted December 5, 2003 fact of the matter is the 3.1L mpfi will not gain enough power to justify the cost of a set of headers. better off turboing or juicing the motor. Redz Spoken like a true DOHC owner Quote
Robby1870 Posted December 5, 2003 Report Posted December 5, 2003 I agree. A 3.1L with high CR, big cam, yada yada yada, would see nice gains from headers. I mean how could it not? Stock manifolds and downpipe are really restrictive, not even considering the circle shaped exhaust port. Quote
93GTP Posted December 5, 2003 Report Posted December 5, 2003 Well, for the most part, it's true. 3.1's are pretty damn gutless stock, so unless you have several other tasteful mods done to it, headers arent a high priority. If you're running high compression, and a more agressive cam etc.., then sure. But I can definetely say with certainty that the amount of people with these mods on this board is very small. Quote
Vegeta Posted December 5, 2003 Report Posted December 5, 2003 Let me break this down for the DOHC owners. This applies to your motor too, so honestly I dunno wtf you are thinking. What is the most restricted part of the engine? Hint, they look like logs. EXHAUST MANIFOLDS. Headers should be the first mod to the DOHC, 3.1, 2.8, 3100,3400. With a properly designed set of headers...which means more than just slapping tubes on a flange, gains from stock would be pretty decent. Start modding the engine and they get even more important. The 2.8/3.1 does have a crappy intake, which is why the gen 3 top end helps so much, but I still say they are barely behind the exhaust in terms of hindering performance. So, again, i ask why headers are not worth it for the 3.1....and what is this being based on because its obviously NOT facts from people who HAVE headers on their gen 2 pushrod engines. Quote
slick Posted December 5, 2003 Report Posted December 5, 2003 I have heard somewhere that headers will make 20 whp. I guy had some headers made for his 3.1 beretta. Quote
RedZMonte Posted December 5, 2003 Report Posted December 5, 2003 fact of the matter is the 3.1L mpfi will not gain enough power to justify the cost of a set of headers. better off turboing or juicing the motor. Redz Spoken like a true DOHC owner I own a 3.1L and i can tell you even under boost it still has much to be desired. the 3.4 x motor is definatly breaths better and would benifit more from headers. but again i am not saying go get them for the x motor. i am just saying for the money it will be better invested boosting or juicing the motor. shane Quote
RedZMonte Posted December 5, 2003 Report Posted December 5, 2003 Basically it takes time, planning, and money. For the headplate flanges, go to my cardomain site on the third page, exact measurements for your 3.1http://www.cardomain.com/id/slick94prix For the best results, use 1.5" tubing for the primaries, 2.25" crossover pipe, and 2.5" exhaust. You need the money to buy all this stuff. I would try to find steel tubing because a tig welder is harder to come across. I'm lucky that i have a good friend with a welder, so i can weld my steel tubing. If you don't know somebody with a welder, then be prepared to spend some bones. Also, your gonna spend a few bucks cutting the tubing and getting it bent. You will also need to make some custom gaskets, but you can buy gasket material for dirt cheap, so that's the easy part. Mainly, you just need to design, and find somebody that can mandrel bend tubing and weld. i can piece together stainless mandrel headers. my guy does custom turbo manfiolds and headers constantly. shane Quote
slick Posted December 5, 2003 Report Posted December 5, 2003 Cool. I just need more money to get my tubes freaking bent. I am so damn broke because of christmas. Quote
RedZMonte Posted December 5, 2003 Report Posted December 5, 2003 I have heard somewhere that headers will make 20 whp. I guy had some headers made for his 3.1 beretta. I would guess lower then that. the GTP's gain 18hp from headers and they are going to require much more exhaust flow then a N/A motor. Shane Quote
Vegeta Posted December 5, 2003 Report Posted December 5, 2003 You have a turbo 3.1, not an NA 3.1. There is a difference with headers in each app, plus as I said, the intakes suck ass as well. The beretta owner with the shitty headers (that design blows goats) saw noticable gains. I dont recall ever seeing a dyno sheet on them. The 3400 gains 18 hp at the wheels with headers...so assuming anything between the 3800 and its upgrades with those of the 60V6 family is irrelevant. The only thing that would make headers not worth it is the price. Well, that and if the design is thought out or just thrown together. The DOHC obviously gains more from headers because of its flow characteristics. What kind of power does it take for a 3400 pound car to go from 14.9 to 14.3? Quote
GPXSS Posted December 5, 2003 Report Posted December 5, 2003 the 3.4 x motor is definatly breaths better and would benifit more from headers. but again i am not saying go get them for the x motor. i am just saying for the money it will be better invested boosting or juicing the motor. shane Breaths better yes.. would benefit more with headers, im not so sure. The 3.1 manifolds look way more restrictive to me than 3.4 manifolds do.. although you do have the bolt hole humps that we do not have, you have a considerably larger pipe size going out. Bone stock, then id have to say the 3.1 might not gain alot.. because its intake is too restrictive. I would say however with a 62mm TB that headers would make a huge difference on the 3.1 Quote
93GTP Posted December 6, 2003 Report Posted December 6, 2003 The only point I was trying to make is that they're going to be too expensive to be worth it. There's no doubt that there's definetely something to be gained with headers on either the 3.1 or 3.4 TDC, both stock designs are crap. But on both cars, there is really no where good to even run a good designed header, so the point is it's going to be really expensive, and still not even be that good a header. So the money can probably be spent better elsewhere. I plan on the boost method, at least I'll see good gains for the money I spend. Quote
slick Posted December 6, 2003 Report Posted December 6, 2003 There not expensive if you have access to a welder for free(im so lucky), and if you have scrap metal yards around here where you can find all the tubing for one set of headers for $3 (im so lucky again). Basically, if you look hard enough, you will find what you need for cheap. The flanges, im just using half inch steel for them, thats only another few bucks at the scrapyard. Gasket material is also cheap as hell. Quote
god910 Posted December 7, 2003 Report Posted December 7, 2003 Why am I remembering that the collectors needed to be about half the length of the car? It's probably coming out of my ass, not enough sleep and 23 straight days of work will do that to a man. So just tell me to shut the hell up. Quote
Vegeta Posted December 7, 2003 Report Posted December 7, 2003 yeah, smoking crack is more like it. Quote
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