fuel injectors?

[KnightOwl]

I've got an electric impact wrench I originally bought for rotating wheels/tires, but later found it was tough enough to yank axle nuts for front hubs (glad about that) so it sounds like it would handle the crank bolt. I also read the crank bolt is torque-to-yield (eye roll) so that has to be replaced also? Is there a non- TTY replacement?

[digitaloutsider]

It's TTY for a reason. Just replace it. It'll probably be the only time you remove the damper anyhow.

[KnightOwl]

Not taking it the wrong way but there is a big difference between 'worrying' and doing research. Nothing is lost on reading or asking questions. I'm sure anyone at a reputable machine shop will tell you porting/polishing will improve any manifold/head over stock. If it works on N/A engines there is no reason it wont improve a boosted engine. 'Willren' over on Bonnevilleclub.com is as technical and knowledgeable a guy as I've ever conversed with especially with blown 3800s as his "Green Monster" was evidence of. He provided many charts of his machine and flow work but I'm not going digging for them. Will also reported crazy high fuel mileage from his car, which I wont dispute from anyone, but it kinda falls under the category of seeing is believing.

 

I would also add every text or article I've read about supercharged engines talks about battling generated heat, from blower speed, efficiency, and airflow...again, more information is better than less.

 

I mean no disrespect because I do value the advice, but in the end each of us will make the final decision on what we choose to do. Also don't take it the wrong way because I have no wish to start unrest, but your posts often have the tone of you boing put-off if your suggestions aren't taken at face value without question. Maybe its me, and if my way of going about things is a bother, I apologize. I was always under the impression a forum was for fielding thoughts, ideas, and possibilities. It has never been my intention to irritate anyone.

[Imp558]

Ported heads are of little use while an engine is under boost but that doesn't mean it's a bad idea. We spend far more time not under boost.

[KnightOwl]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fbd33oEyCbU

 

This video is an excellent showcase of porting benefits. In this example, the GM Vortec head is already a decent piece and the porting provided a sizeable kick in both power and torque. Granted, the value is offset heavily by the cost of aluminum but that is weight savings and does nothing to enhance flow. The Vortec head could be machined and provide the same power benefit. Those figures would only go higher under boost. You don't have to be shooting for all -out racing power to get a more fun-driving and efficient engine. Yes, $1k sounds like a lot for a set of heads, and I know many have gone to the salvage yard and yanked L67 heads for minimal cost but personally, if I pull an engine apart its not going back together without properly reconditioned or new pieces. If I cant do it that way it will just stay as is internally.

[vipmiller803]

I don’t have a big impact wrench, so when trying to break the pulley bolt loose, I use the rope trick...cotton or nylon rope fed into the cylinder through the spark plug hole, then turn the engine until the rope compresses against the combustion chamber, then remove the bolt.

That is an interesting technique. I'm not sure I would want one rod bearing to contact with that much pressure while having no oil pressure though. Since it's virtually a static contact, it's not a huge deal. I have used vice grips around the flexplate with success before. I think Tom is mentioning just literally wacking a breaker bar/ratchet with a big hammer to simulate the impact with no means of holding the crank.

[Imp558]

I used the rope trick once on a small engine and the rope severed on the sharp edge of the spark plug hole. Then I had to use the 45 minutes with needle nosed pliers trick to recover the rope so I never did it again.

[KnightOwl]

I watched a video where a guy wedged the handle of a breaker bar against the cradle and then cranked the engine with the key. I fully expected the wrench to go flying but it didn't. Still seems risky.

 

Another video a guy fabricated a tool that wedged against the cradle with two pins going into the puller holes on the damper. A cut out allowed socket access to break the crank bolt loose.

 

If I go that route I'm hoping my electric impact will do the job.

[digitaloutsider]

You don't need to fill your engine full of paracord or fabricate some jig. Just put vice grips on the flexplate and use your impact to break it loose.

[digitaloutsider]

I used the rope trick once on a small engine and the rope severed on the sharp edge of the spark plug hole. Then I had to use the 45 minutes with needle nosed pliers trick to recover the rope so I never did it again.

 

I came very close to having the same thing happened when I was doing the valve springs on the Regal. Freaked me the fuck out.

[Imp558]

I like my new system much better. I put a 3/8" air hose in at work for Boudica, no vice grips, no ropes or jigs necessary. She drops that bolt out in 5 seconds.

[KnightOwl]

I checked with a former co-worker today that told me two places I could get heads reconditioned with mild porting for around $500. Another $140 for springs and if I grabbed a whole engine for the salvage $350 price, that would be way under the cost for any of the heads I've looked at. I'm very surprised machine work could be done that cheap but I'll certainly check it out.

 

Thanks to digitaloutsider, your counterpoint is well taken and I appreciate the input.

[Imp558]

My whole flow bench should be a little over $500

[digitaloutsider]

I checked with a former co-worker today that told me two places I could get heads reconditioned with mild porting for around $500. Another $140 for springs and if I grabbed a whole engine for the salvage $350 price, that would be way under the cost for any of the heads I've looked at. I'm very surprised machine work could be done that cheap but I'll certainly check it out.

 

 

That's not a bad deal at all for the head work. Just make sure you do your research on the shop beforehand. I've seen some really terrible "porting" work over the years. Springs are ultra cheap, and you should be able to get those way less than $140. If you plan on doing rockers now or at some point down the road, just go ahead and do the L76/L92 springs and retainers now. I paid $65 for them through Pace Performance. Part numbers are in my Garage here.

 

 

Thanks to digitaloutsider, your counterpoint is well taken and I appreciate the input.

 

It's not personal, and it's not me being an asshole. I think most people on this board who have met me can attest to the fact I'm not a raging douchebag, despite the tone of my posts. I've just seen plenty of people spend a lot of money unnecessarily (and create a lot of headache for themselves) over the past 15 years. If I'm offering my input, it's in good faith.

[Imp558]

I order a nice set of valve seals and then when I drop heads off I hand them to them. I say they came with my gasket set so we may as well use them. That way I know the valve seals are a quality brand and I don't have to offend them by asking what brand they use.

[KnightOwl]

Just spoke with a local machine shop this morning and he seemed very knowledgeable and on board with what I was after. Recondition heads including magnaflux (if needed) new guides, 3 angle valve job, and mild clean-up port work including the bowl area will run about $750 all in. While that is a little higher than I was told its still substantially under the $1200-1400 figure for heads from ZZ or Milzy. He agreed a good clean-up in conjunction with high ratio rockers should greatly assist reducing KR which is always a goal, but seems more so with a top swap creating higher pressures.

 

So, besides the high ratio rockers and tune, what other steps can be taken to minimize KR? I already have the front Powerlog and the better DP/hi-flo cat.

[Galaxie500XL]

Diplomacy goes a long way in this hobby. You’d be surprised at the things that people will massively discount, or even give away if they feel like they’re talking to a decent human being.

[digitaloutsider]

Just spoke with a local machine shop this morning and he seemed very knowledgeable and on board with what I was after. Recondition heads including magnaflux (if needed) new guides, 3 angle valve job, and mild clean-up port work including the bowl area will run about $750 all in. While that is a little higher than I was told its still substantially under the $1200-1400 figure for heads from ZZ or Milzy. He agreed a good clean-up in conjunction with high ratio rockers should greatly assist reducing KR which is always a goal, but seems more so with a top swap creating higher pressures.

 

So, besides the high ratio rockers and tune, what other steps can be taken to minimize KR? I already have the front Powerlog and the better DP/hi-flo cat.

 

That's still a good deal at $750. I have some 243 heads I need work done on a future project on the Corvette, and that's still hundreds of dollars less than the quotes I've got. 

 

You should not be seeing any KR on a nearly stock build with your mods assuming the tuner is remotely competent. Or even incompetent, as long as you don't go crazy on the pulley. 

[KnightOwl]

LOLOL      Well, I already KNOW I'm not remotely competent! (yet) and I know I'm planning on staying with the stock size 3.8 pulley...that should make plenty of go-fast fun for me over my stock L36.

 

I assume a "canned tune" for a top swap would be safe place to start (and make the car drive-ready) until I can learn more the finer points of tuning myself? Scan gauges are also on many sites...are pretty much any of those ok?

 

Any particular tune supplier out there highly recommended? I know 3800performance and Milzy offer ready PCMs for top swap, and of course ZZP although they don't offer phone tech support on top swap unless you are a shop, not the individual.

[Imp558]

Honestly buying your own HPT tool is the best tuning option. Nobody cares about your car like you.

[digitaloutsider]

Yeah, scan gauges are pretty much all the same. Most people use an AeroForce to monitor KR. You could also use Torque and a BT OBD-II adapter for a non-permanent solution.

 

Personally, I would suggest either finding a used DHP box or buy HPTuners. That way, people in the community can help you get started on your tune. You can start with a canned tune, but about the only person who did a good one is now out of the scene (Will @ Overkill). If you go the DHP/HPT route and start with a canned calibration, I'd go into the good fuel spark table and decrease the WOT timing 1 degree given the higher compression. Once you dial things in, you can move it up incrementally from there. 

 

Having seen ZZP's calibrations, I'm not impressed, nor would I pay money for it. Don't need tech support from a vendor when you have a community that cares beyond how much $$$ you're giving them.

[Imp558]

Later this Summer I'm going to be learning my way through. I'd figured on making a tuning thread so members of various experience levels could hop in and help / get help on the topic.

[Galaxie500XL]

Later this Summer I'm going to be learning my way through. I'd figured on making a tuning thread so members of various experience levels could hop in and help / get help on the topic.

I could really use that..GM never built a 350 TPI manual car, so I’m currently running a MEMCAL that’s really not correct for my car.

[KnightOwl]

Diablosport Predator 2 seems like a popular choice? Some of the other don't appear to support the 3800 platform (looking at their websites) and some of the other models use a phone-like (Diablo Trinity) that appears to double as a scan gauge with lots of other options. Most of this seems like overkill for me, but then I know next to nothing about tuning.

 

Intense Racing offers a PCM tailored to your mods for $174, but I get how having a laptop and software allows hands-on access to set things up the way you want them. This feels like a steep learning curve that can do damage if you screw it up! LOL

[digitaloutsider]

Diablosports aren't tuning suites, they just dump someone else's canned tune onto your car. 

 

All the big vendors, ZZP, INTENSE, Milzy, etc will generally do tweaks to fit your needs, but I cannot say enough for having the flexibility to change parameters by yourself. A DHP/HPT setup is worth it's weight in gold, IMHO, especially if you're doing something like a topswap. 3800 tuning is pretty straightforward, and there is a lot of good information out there, some of it outdated (e.g. wasting lots of time doing VE tuning), but there is enough to point you in the right direction. For you, I'd start with the most basic calibration possible (just dumping the L67 engine parameters into your calibration), do some reading, do some more reading, and then tweak it from there.

 

Yeah, you can screw things up, but if you ask questions and do research, you'll be fine.