Old style vs new style brake boosters

[Dark Ride]

In my particular case I have a lot of wiring and battery cables coming through the firewall where the shift cable for a column shift would go and I was trying to push those aside to get it to lock. I stopped trying when I realized that even if it did lock, it was going to cause issues with the down pipe anyway. The locks did appear the same and measured the same so theoretically it should lock into place. I didn't know the 92-93 models were better. I may replace mine with the newer style since it's all out anyway and this one is original.

[55trucker]

Many years ago when the 1st gen cars were coming back to the dealers in droves suffering with lack of braking I (in '96) pulled out my booster & sent it into a local rebuilder where I had it upgraded to the 93 specs. It did make a mild difference in the pedal response. At THAT time the later 94+ booster was still so new there was little rebuild availability on it. Today I want to upgrade the booster again, on the fence as to whether to get the 2000+ or the 94-99 booster. 

[Imp558]

Automakers being creatures of habit makes me wonder how many other GM vehicles would have a compatible booster.

[Nas Escobar]

Automakers being creatures of habit makes me wonder how many other GM vehicles would have a compatible booster.

 

Well going off of 55trucker's comment, I learned that GM did in fact make that booster design proprietary to the W body. A couple years ago, someone made asked a question in regards to what interchanged between the 3 generations of W and it seems in THEORY the booster interchanges between all W's built from 1988 through 2016. 

 

Here's where it gets tricky... GM has different part numbers for the booster throughout the years, and are different between the car models. For example, the 2000-2005 Impala and Monte Carlo use the same brake booster but only share it with the 1998-1999 Intrigue; however the Intrigue got the Regal's brake booster in 2000 and the Impala got that booster in 2006 and shared it with the LaCrosse.

 

Using rock auto as a reference point, these are the power brake booster interchangeability. I'll post an AC Delco part number, they're reman unless stated.

 

14PB4268 - 1988-1991 Regal, Cutlass, and Grand Prix. 1990-1991 Lumina.

14PB4036 - 1991-1993 Regal, Cutlass and Grand Prix. 1994 Lumina. 

14PB4446 - 1994-1997 Regal, Cutlass and Grand Prix. 1995-1999 Lumina and Monte Carlo. 1997 only Century. The last 1G brake booster was carried over for 1997.

 

This is where GM starts acting funny...

 

So, 14PB4446 is listed as a P/N for the 2G W's, which I thought was a mistake but Rock Auto made it a point to list the 97 Century, which was on the 2G W since the name migrated from the freshly cancelled A body. however, this happens...

 

14PB4318 - 1997-1999 Regal and Century, 1997-2000 Grand Prix, 1998-1999 Intrigue. 1997 Only Cutlass Supreme.

 

There's also a new version available from AC Delco, PN 178633 and it lists the same cars as 14PB4318. In theory, since the 1997 CS is still a 1G, wouldn't that mean that this specific booster can interchange with the 94-96 W's and 95-2001 Lumina? I may want to try this on my 93 Z34. 

 

Now the Intrigue is really an oddball. So Rock Auto lists 2 PN's for the Intrigue. If you look it up for the 1999 Intrigue, there's an option for "light duty brakes" and "heavy duty brakes". According to that statement, the 2G's got light duty brakes up until 1999 and the Impala/Monte Carlo (on the hypothetical 2.5 W) has heavy duty brakes only, which I assume the Intrigue's HD brakes were the Impala's light duty brakes since the Impala got a police package.

 

14PB4072 Is the PN for the "Heavy Duty" 1998-1999 Intrigue brakes and the 2000-2005 Impala Monte Carlo. Also available new; PN 178650. 

 

Since I'm doing this by searching parts as the years increase, I'm now going to talk about the 1.5G Lumina.

 

So according to GM (or AC Delco), They made one booster up until 1999 then used another in 2000 and 2001 for fleet sale Luminas, however both interchange. According to Rock Auto, 14PB4446 is for Luminas up until 1999 that have a specific pedal rod (C24 and A19). Both have the same sized push rod.

 

14PB4317 is for 1995-2001 Luminas and 1995-1999 Monte Carlos with pedal rod W5. Now the question is: How do you know which pedal rod you have? Or is this bullshit to confuse people and in reality all 94-2005 boosters interchange considering that 97 W's got the 94 booster yet the 97 Cutlass Supreme also got the 98-2000 booster? Because knowing GM, they did something so insignificant that it required a new PN... 

 

Prior - another part company lists their booster's interchangeability so weird compared to GM. According to them, 1997-1999 are one set of boosters and they will interchange with 1997-1999 Luminas but not 1997 or 1999+ Monte Carlos. But it's perfectly fine to use a 1997 Cutlass Supreme booster on a 2005 Impala. At that point, I'm almost tempted to rip a booster out of a 2005 Impala SS at the yard and stuff it in the Z34. 

 

 

 

14PB4104 - 2000-2005 Century, 2000-2004 Regal, 2001-2008 Grand Prix, 2005-2009 LaCrosse, 2006-2008 Impala, 2006 and 2007 Monte Carlo, 2000-2002 Intrigue with no HD or LD distinction between brakes.

 

Now the Intrigue intrigues me now (see what I did there?) because the 3G W GXP got upgraded brakes over the lower tier GP's. In the Grand Am world, the rear GXP brake calipers are a desirable upgrade to the rear brakes but have to be adapted to fit. Knowing this, why was there a distinction over what kind of brakes the 1998-1999 Intriuges got if it later became irrelevant?

 

 

 

 

3G boosters are a mess. Moreso on the Impala. 

 

GM made a different brake booster for the 5.3 V8, the 3.5 and the 3.9 (or so it seems as they're different part numbers). They also have an opening on the right hand side, opposite the check valve. Interesting enough, the 3.9 G6, which shared the engine with the Impala didn't get an extra port on the booster (it's also a traditional design with bolts instead of the cam lock) 

 

I'm not going to mess with those... it seems every 2 years they did something to it.

[Imp558]

That's interesting. I was thinking more along the lines of a Grand Am booster to be nice and small but now I'm thinking 9C1 Impala booster.

[Nas Escobar]

That's interesting. I was thinking more along the lines of a Grand Am booster to be nice and small but now I'm thinking 9C1 Impala booster.

 

 

Nope, GM used a traditional 4 nut mounted booster on the J body and the N body derivative. I've had both... The last Grand Am is more stand alone than the 4th gen was. The 3rd and 4th gens were basically bigger J bodies, even sharing the same rack and pinion design. Same goes for the Epsilon, it has the same style booster the N body used... Now Super Epsilon II or whatever they call the new Impala and Lacrosse's frame might be a different story.

 

9C1 Would probably be the HD brake booster the Intrigue got, which you have in your Monte Carlo... Unless I missed a P/N because AFAIK, GM kept it simple on the Impala, simply using the original 2G 97-99 Booster. If anything, it may be 14BP4104

 

 

It looks slimmer than the Impala/Monte Carlo/Intrigue one...

[Dark Ride]

Wow, there is a lot of good info/discussion here, may have to rename this thread "everything you need to know about our brake boosters"

[Bake82]

Great info!!!  

[Imp558]

Still sounds like the 14PB4072 HD one is our best option, and smaller to boot. Good work Nas!

[mfewtrail]

If you need diameter info on all those various W' body boosters through the years, I believe Autozones website should list that information for the replacements. I'm guessing a lot of them will actually interchange, you'll just need to modify the pushrod length as needed for your application.

[Dark Ride]

How would you modify the pushrod length?

[Imp558]

shorter would be easier, cut it, thread both sides and put a coupling nut on it

[Galaxie500XL]

shorter would be easier, cut it, thread both sides and put a coupling nut on it

I'd worry about failure modifying it that way...even welding/brazing I think could be potentially iffy after numerous (thousands) of cycles.

 

You really don't want to experience driving a car with no brakes whatsoever, if the rod breaks.

[Imp558]

Honestly I'd believe a welded or threaded splice to be the strongest point on that rod. Just looking at the picture above the eye that goes to the pedal looks pretty thin and it appears to be spliced on from the factory.

[55trucker]

Adjustable pushrods are nothing out-of-the-ordinary.

 

many manufacturers going back 40+ years make use of an adjustable pushrod on the master cylinder end. It's nothing more than a hollow rod inside the booster with a threaded inner rod held by a lock nut. It allows one to adjust up the gap between the pushrod and the master piston to eliminate pedal travel. Ford is a good example of this design going back to the 60's.

 

Doing the same at the foot pedal would not be what I would consider *dangerous*.

[Dark Ride]

So I've confirmed that both the 90 gp booster and the 99 lumina booster have removable pushrods. There is a little clip that you take off and the pushrod comes off. It is clear from the pictures on rock auto that the stock pushrod on the 14PB4072 booster is too long, but if it can be swapped I should be able to make it work. Heading to the parts store this week to see if I can get my hands on one to look at.

[Imp558]

So this combo if all works out will be:

 

1st Gen pedal assembly

1999 9C1 Booster

Second gen MC with tee fittings to get 4 wheels

 

Is that right?

[Dark Ride]

Thats my plan anyway, I guess we'll find out how that goes.

[Imp558]

Depending on where the chips fall this thread could be a sticky candidate. I'm curios if the first Gen MC fits the 9C1 booster. BTW are you sure the 99 Lumina is the better booster? I thought it came on the Monte SS and Impala.

[Dark Ride]

My bad, i didnt read your whole post correctly the first time. I couldn't use the 99 Lumina booster as it wouldn't fit for what I needed (I need the smallest booster) the booster I'm going to try to use came on the 01+ Monte Carlo. I'll test the old mc on the new booster, but theoretically it should fit.

[Imp558]

I was under the impression the smaller booster, which I have on the '01 MCSS was the same as the 9C1. I'm not sure if the Monte Carlo got the same booster without the SS package.

[Dark Ride]

I used the 02 monte Carlo as a reference and both engines list the 14PB4072 booster, so I think they are the same. 9C1 is that the police/taxi package?

[Nas Escobar]

So I've confirmed that both the 90 gp booster and the 99 lumina booster have removable pushrods. There is a little clip that you take off and the pushrod comes off. It is clear from the pictures on rock auto that the stock pushrod on the 14PB4072 booster is too long, but if it can be swapped I should be able to make it work. Heading to the parts store this week to see if I can get my hands on one to look at.

Keep us posted, I'm thinking about putting an Intrigue/Monte Carlo/Impala booster in my 93 Z24. I thought it would be pnp.

[Dark Ride]

As suspected, the Monte Carlo booster will lock into the gen 1 plate, however, the pushrods are not directly interchangeable. The slots for the locking clip do not align, but I may be able to cut new slots to make it work.

[Nas Escobar]

As suspected, the Monte Carlo booster will lock into the gen 1 plate, however, the pushrods are not directly interchangeable. The slots for the locking clip do not align, but I may be able to cut new slots to make it work.

How longer is the M/C pushrod compared to the GP's