when is it time to ditch a car

[98gpgt]

Clearly many of you/us put lots of work into your cars. I paid 300$ for a 98 GP GT. It never had a problem running until the charging system (alternator) crapped out, likely due to a torrential downpour, puddles, etc. Maybe I'm tired. I had to struggle a bit like a schmuck with a wheel bearing. Like a bi-polar nut I finished the job on a day when I had to report for work at 11pm, and was quite worn out. But it's done. Now I have to do the ball joints. Then the tie rods, inner and outer (they're real bad at least on the driver's side). Then the engine/tranny mounts. Found a knick in the brake hose, that's soon. Let's see what else did I buy? Whatever. And now I have a fluid leak, haven't looked at it yet, brake or p/s probably. This situation isn't at all like my old 92 Lumina where nearly nothing went wrong in 104k miles, 5 years. My blower motor crapped out, and 1 or both of my heat blend doors. A/C may no longer be working. I thought the wheel bearing would turn my Anti lock and "Track Off" lights off. I have 1 O2 sensor, may need another, to turn my check engine light off. Don't have a clue why my ebrake light is on, I don't have ebrakes. Then I have to sit up nights and worry about coolant hydrolocking my engine. I did buy a uim gasket real cheap, 12$ and change. That's not going to solve the problem I know. I need tires desperately. Should I keep soldiering on? Don't actually have a choice right not, any money I have saved is going into a van that I just want and need to bring home crap to fix the house. Like I said maybe I'm just tired and things aren't all that bad and I shouldn't expect the world from a 300$ 18 year old buggy. I will point out it's a very comfortable car, could use a bit more head room. I've never posted pictures, it's also banged to hell LOL LOL. But I do like it.

[Grandprix1]

Honestly it's up to you. Have a 2002 GT. I say keep fixing it and then enjoy the car and what you've done to it when it's all finished. Something to be proud of you know?

 

 

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[Imp558]

You always have a car payment. Wether it's money outright on a newer car or repairs on an older car. I'd love to see pictures of it, that's a survivor.

[1989 Pontiac Se]

A car that cheap you need to hokd on to the things youll have to fix will all be fixed in time. It just sounds like a money issue. I sold my truck running and driving only thing was the frint in was wreck but all the lights still worked the bulvs even survived. Inly thing it needed was an o2 sensor i bought it for 500 out a fuel pump and a a/t shift solenoid in it and drive it with no a/c for 8 months until i put r134a in it an the found the compressor was still good i sokd that truck for 200. Amd i still regret it. If i turns on and it goes in drive and reverse keep it. You can always drive the van until you get her right.

 

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[1989 Pontiac Se]

You always have a car payment. Wether it's money outright on a newer car or repairs on an older car. I'd love to see pictures of it, that's a survivor.

Exactly everything is a process. Thats car is a survivor indeed.

 

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[Nas Escobar]

Clearly many of you/us put lots of work into your cars. I paid 300$ for a 98 GP GT. It never had a problem running until the charging system (alternator) crapped out, likely due to a torrential downpour, puddles, etc. Maybe I'm tired. I had to struggle a bit like a schmuck with a wheel bearing. Like a bi-polar nut I finished the job on a day when I had to report for work at 11pm, and was quite worn out. But it's done. Now I have to do the ball joints. Then the tie rods, inner and outer (they're real bad at least on the driver's side). Then the engine/tranny mounts. Found a knick in the brake hose, that's soon. Let's see what else did I buy? Whatever. And now I have a fluid leak, haven't looked at it yet, brake or p/s probably. This situation isn't at all like my old 92 Lumina where nearly nothing went wrong in 104k miles, 5 years. My blower motor crapped out, and 1 or both of my heat blend doors. A/C may no longer be working. I thought the wheel bearing would turn my Anti lock and "Track Off" lights off. I have 1 O2 sensor, may need another, to turn my check engine light off. Don't have a clue why my ebrake light is on, I don't have ebrakes. Then I have to sit up nights and worry about coolant hydrolocking my engine. I did buy a uim gasket real cheap, 12$ and change. That's not going to solve the problem I know. I need tires desperately. Should I keep soldiering on? Don't actually have a choice right not, any money I have saved is going into a van that I just want and need to bring home crap to fix the house. Like I said maybe I'm just tired and things aren't all that bad and I shouldn't expect the world from a 300$ 18 year old buggy. I will point out it's a very comfortable car, could use a bit more head room. I've never posted pictures, it's also banged to hell LOL LOL. But I do like it.

 

I made certain points in bold because my reply applies to those points. First thing's first, the alternator on a 3800 is stupid easy. Same for the 3100/3400. The hardest part is releasing tension on the tensioner pulley, and that's because of the space between the frame and the engine. I've done alt swaps on a GM V6 in 45 minutes, and that's because I like cleaning up stuff and other small things while I'm in there. 

 

Sometimes we struggle with the cars. It's just part of life. I personally had issues with the Alternator on my Cutlass Supreme, but my engine has that feature at the bottom by the halfshaft. Other times, I do things to em and it's easy as pie. The wheel bearing on my Cutlass is a good example of that. 4 bolts, impact wrench and some extensions and it was out. I've come to learn that while most things can be done with simple hand tools, things get easier when you have an impact wrench or some other power tool that helps you pop off the bolts/nuts with ease. I've certainly gotten lazier with that tool but I've also finished projects earlier than I would with hand tools. Shit, a brake job is 30 minutes for me now compared to an hour and some change with simple hand tools. Doing what we do, it's a mix of time, tools, and skills. You need a bit of all 3.

 

Tie rods aren't that hard. Hell, if you get stuff from RockAuto or use discount codes on Advance Auto Parts, they come out pretty cheap too. Just be smart about it on Advance, you're allowed unlimited orders after all. I usually make 2 or 3 orders just to discount more stuff since they have a 30% or $50 limit, whichever is greater. I've done tie rods myself a couple times. The inner ones aren't fun when space constrictions are taken into account but it's not as hard as say... an LQ1 alternator.

 

You said your brake hose is nicked... are you sure that's not your source of the leak? 

 

You mention your 92 Lumina, but each car is different, especially considering its previous owner. My 96 G20 went through a similar phase as your 98 GP GT. The previous owner treated it like shit. Meanwhile, minus my trans issue, my 94 Cutlass has been the most reliable car I've had. It's just how the previous owner treated them. Buying a used car is like playing the lottery. You just don't know what you got yourself into until it's too late. Honestly, most of the things you mentioned are very simple fixes. The hardest thing, IMO would be the engine mounts and maybe the traction control. 

 

The ebrake is part of the fault with the traction control (Trac off). When something fails, the "BRAKE", "ABS" and "TRAC OFF" LIGHT comes on. You have to get the codes scanned with a scanner that can also read body codes. It gets checked through the OBD2 port. Usually a shop has access to that kind of machinery. It's usually just an overglorified scanner, say for example a SnapOn scanner capable of reading both OBD1 and OBD2 as well as BCM codes. The triple light is because of the BCM. Then you can focus on that specific wheel. It may be as simple as wiring, or as complicated as the BCM itself. I can't say for sure with just knowing the light is on. It has to be checked. 

 

As far as the A/C goes, focus on the blower motor first. Get it to blow air then focus on the cooling aspect of the climate control.

 

Also, return the UIM and get a LIMG kit. They usually come with a UIM. If it doesn't then you gotta keep it but it won't make sense to put the UIM first then the LIM. Make sure the LIMG is metal. Felpro makes them, we all use them and it's it will make that 3800 tough as nails. The job isn't the hardest but it's not a cake walk either. Time is consumed and you have to take some things off the belt drive to be able to clear the LIM. Take a weekend (if it's a daily) and take care of it. You'll be glad you did. 

 

Tires are the easiest part. Go to a used tire shop for now until you can save up for a brand new set. 

 

You always have a car payment. Wether it's money outright on a newer car or repairs on an older car. I'd love to see pictures of it, that's a survivor.

 

This. I've been on both ends of this spectrum and no matter what you always have to invest in a car. It's just life. I just bought another car and I have to do a tune up to it. Meanwhile all my other cars need some sort of repair. 

[98gpgt]

well presumably anything can be fixed, and you can keep fixing a car until everything is new. But it was explained to me recently the reason for lemon laws is the premise that if you have to keep fixing something ... you're going to have to keep fixing it. We're not talking about new cars here. I don't have a huge problem w/anything I've done or have to do in the foreseeable future. Just that I'm afraid something major will happen that's not practical to deal with. Hell I suppose I could put a new tranny in, I guess. I'm not worried about the engine, apart from UIM failing. The reason I bought the gasket was on account of this nutty idea that I would cast an UIM in aluminum myself. Not totally practical, as the pattern is a bit complicated, but my idea was to use an old UIM as the pattern. A crazy idea, but the gasket was only 12$ as I said. It's a keeper nevertheless. So is the car, barring some catastrophic calamity. My nephew sold me a 1990 Chrysler LeBaron convertible for 600$ years ago. It's said the only time you want to own one is when the previous owner/s already had it a while and fixed everything that was bound to fail. Mine never stranded me in the 30-40k miles I drove it. The engine was great and fuel efficient, 3.0 Mitsubishi I believe. But... the valve stem seals needed replacing, and the car would smoke up after taking off from a light say. Was a damned good car though. I didn't do really anything to it, until the radiator crapped out, I think I was responsible for that. But the tranny went in the 160+ area. Bite me Chrysler! But my 82 G10 did about the same thing. So should I get a tranny manual for this thing? It's just that the GM cars I've owned since 1989, but for that 3400 Lumina, were extremely reliable and largely maintenance free. That was a beautiful car externally (and the interior), but it had certain problems. Not sure if they were common on every single one. The Luminas until 94 are still probably the nicest looking sedans out there, still striking when I see one. But that one was a pita. So apart from that all the GMs I've owned were dreams of reliability and maintenance wise. Not so much with this one. That's why I'm concerned. This car isn't a whole lot more complicated then that 92 Lumina 3.1 I don't think. I'm just wondering if the quality is there.

[Nas Escobar]

well presumably anything can be fixed, and you can keep fixing a car until everything is new. But it was explained to me recently the reason for lemon laws is the premise that if you have to keep fixing something ... you're going to have to keep fixing it. We're not talking about new cars here. I don't have a huge problem w/anything I've done or have to do in the foreseeable future. Just that I'm afraid something major will happen that's not practical to deal with. Hell I suppose I could put a new tranny in, I guess. I'm not worried about the engine, apart from UIM failing. The reason I bought the gasket was on account of this nutty idea that I would cast an UIM in aluminum myself. Not totally practical, as the pattern is a bit complicated, but my idea was to use an old UIM as the pattern. A crazy idea, but the gasket was only 12$ as I said. It's a keeper nevertheless. So is the car, barring some catastrophic calamity. My nephew sold me a 1990 Chrysler LeBaron convertible for 600$ years ago. It's said the only time you want to own one is when the previous owner/s already had it a while and fixed everything that was bound to fail. Mine never stranded me in the 30-40k miles I drove it. The engine was great and fuel efficient, 3.0 Mitsubishi I believe. But... the valve stem seals needed replacing, and the car would smoke up after taking off from a light say. Was a damned good car though. I didn't do really anything to it, until the radiator crapped out, I think I was responsible for that. But the tranny went in the 160+ area. Bite me Chrysler! But my 82 G10 did about the same thing. So should I get a tranny manual for this thing? It's just that the GM cars I've owned since 1989, but for that 3400 Lumina, were extremely reliable and largely maintenance free. That was a beautiful car externally (and the interior), but it had certain problems. Not sure if they were common on every single one. The Luminas until 94 are still probably the nicest looking sedans out there, still striking when I see one. But that one was a pita. So apart from that all the GMs I've owned were dreams of reliability and maintenance wise. Not so much with this one. That's why I'm concerned. This car isn't a whole lot more complicated then that 92 Lumina 3.1 I don't think. I'm just wondering if the quality is there.

 

Lemon laws aren't for used cars though. They apply for new cars because a new car isn't supposed to require new parts for a long time. It's the same with electronics... say for example, if you buy a laptop; would you think it's normal that it eats through hard drives and motherboards? No. That's where the lemon law comes in. The thing with used cars (and I mentioned this on my last post) is that it's a gamble what you're getting into. Nissan for example are known for "robust" cars. My 96 Infiniti (subsidiary of Nissan same how Chevy and Cadillac are related by force of GM) needed a shit load of work when I first got it. There have been times I wanted to throw the towel but I haven't yet. It's just how the last person treated it. Obviously for a $300 car, you knew it would need work. Hell, I knew my $100 Buick Regal was gonna need work. I couldn't drive it after 15 minutes since the injectors were bad on it. That's why I always tell people "if you're not good with a wrench, and you don't have the funds for a mechanic then owning a car isn't for you... leasing is". 

 

Anyways to give you a firm answer on the question... the time to get rid of a car is when you're fed up of it. These are nothing more than machines so once you think it's not worth fixing it, that's when you get rid of it. No one can tell you "the time is when x goes wrong" because some people will fix that. Hell, if it came down to it, I would replace both the engine and trans in my Cutlass in a heartbeat, but those cars are hard finds, which is why I feel a certain way.

 

If you're concerned about the plenum breaking, you can get a Series 3 plenum and an adapter from ZZP to revert the plenum back to cable throttle. I have an aluminum plenum from an S3 if you're interested in it.

[Grandprix1]

Lemon laws aren't for used cars though. They apply for new cars because a new car isn't supposed to require new parts for a long time. It's the same with electronics... say for example, if you buy a laptop; would you think it's normal that it eats through hard drives and motherboards? No. That's where the lemon law comes in. The thing with used cars (and I mentioned this on my last post) is that it's a gamble what you're getting into. Nissan for example are known for "robust" cars. My 96 Infiniti (subsidiary of Nissan same how Chevy and Cadillac are related by force of GM) needed a shit load of work when I first got it. There have been times I wanted to throw the towel but I haven't yet. It's just how the last person treated it. Obviously for a $300 car, you knew it would need work. Hell, I knew my $100 Buick Regal was gonna need work. I couldn't drive it after 15 minutes since the injectors were bad on it. That's why I always tell people "if you're not good with a wrench, and you don't have the funds for a mechanic then owning a car isn't for you... leasing is".

 

Anyways to give you a firm answer on the question... the time to get rid of a car is when you're fed up of it. These are nothing more than machines so once you think it's not worth fixing it, that's when you get rid of it. No one can tell you "the time is when x goes wrong" because some people will fix that. Hell, if it came down to it, I would replace both the engine and trans in my Cutlass in a heartbeat, but those cars are hard finds, which is why I feel a certain way.

 

If you're concerned about the plenum breaking, you can get a Series 3 plenum and an adapter from ZZP to revert the plenum back to cable throttle. I have an aluminum plenum from an S3 if you're interested in it.

Not to hijack the thread but is that a direct swap with just the plate?

[l67ss]

The plate and either a breather cap or tap tb for pcv.

[l67ss]

To the op..on a car like this gotta remember parts are stupid easy and cheap to get. Basically you can rebuild the whole car and prolly still not have enough in it to cover a down payment on a newer car

[Nas Escobar]

Not to hijack the thread but is that a direct swap with just the plate?

 

The UIM bolts right on with no mods, but the throttle body won't because the S3 is drive by wire whereas the S2 was a cable throttle. That plate makes it all work. Then you gotta figure out the vacuum line I think.

[98gpgt]

To the op..on a car like this gotta remember parts are stupid easy and cheap to get. Basically you can rebuild the whole car and prolly still not have enough in it to cover a down payment on a newer car

 

 I know. There's just times where you stop and wonder what's going to blow next. Like I said I don't mind putting in some work (would prefer everything to be as reliable as my Beretta or Lumina). Just that I don't want it all to be for nothing. I can always get a nudda tranny. There's a place in PA I can get them for 75$. And the though of rebuilding a transmission I find interesting. As long as it can be done right, and perhaps with improved aftermarket parts, you can't go wrong. Should be able to be done for under maybe well under a grand.

 

 

 

1992 Lumina 88k miles, paid 500$ for it. It needed the hood cylinders put back on (?), a new fender and headlight, needed the scraped up bumper put back on. Drove it for 104k miles.Wound up paying for a tune-up (don't ask), a high pressure p/s line, and an ignition module All that probably cost more then the car. Eventually the computer went, got a replacement for 25$, car started right up. Then the starter wouldn't turn the motor over when it got cold. I bought a starter then junked the car (got 300$ for it).

 

1989 Beretta GT- purchased new for 13,500$. Junked it at 205k miles. Crankshaft sensor went, replaced the heater core myself. It didn't run for 6 weeks, I understand now I could have fixed it with a hair dryer or spotlamp on the ignition wires area. Did front struts myself, tires, the usual. I did have to replace the alternator, not the p/s pump or starter I don't think. Replaced the muffler somewhere, around 300$, got it home, it wouldn't start up after that. It sat for a while, eventually got junked. Ok, that's the GM I used to know and love!

[l67ss]

Oh you'll get to a point where the gp is dead nuts reliable. Only thing you really need to watch for is rust. Something that may surprise a few people is I actually used to kinda hate these cars. Only bought the Monte because I kinda had to. Grew on me fast and I got to the point where I was actually kinda cocky about it. Main parts you'll wanna keep an eye on is trans, icm, maf, and fuel pump. Aside from those you shouldn't have to worry about much

[digitaloutsider]

Rust is what will make me ditch a car with no second thought. I loved my '97 GTP, but the rust was way too bad for me to consider keeping it. 

[95GS]

Rust is what will make me ditch a car with no second thought. I loved my '97 GTP, but the rust was way too bad for me to consider keeping it. 

 

I think most old-car owners feel this way.

But no one ever posts about rust prevention.

[l67ss]

Rust never really phased me....I'll take rust over dents any day

[95GS]

Rust never really phased me....I'll take rust over dents any day

 

You've reminded me to post a pic of my retired rear sub frame.

One day I'll get around to it.

[l67ss]

With a rusty panel you just add metal. With dents the whole side can be distorted

[95GS]

With a rusty panel you just add metal...

 

Can one put a w-body on a rotisserie, to work on frame rust?

Or is this only for body-on-frame cars?

[White93z34]

People have been doing rotisserie restorations on unibody cars for ages now.

 

I mean, on the topic at hand... its a 18 year old car now. Its a 18 year old $300 car, which means it probably wasn't the most maintained thing on the road. 

 

You have plenty of other owners deferred service/maintenance to catch up on, most of which is pretty typical given the age and price paid for such a vehicle.

 

Is it rusty? If the body is shot its probably not worth the time of day past making it go down the road safely. If its clean, you'll have a few months worth of "car payments" then it would probably be ok for awhile.

 

If you are so worried about the upper intake, buy a new one, they aren't that expensive. And next time it will be an issue the car will be long scrapped and gone.

 

There's plenty of ways to mitigate vehicles from rusting, just no one usually thinks about it till its already too far gone. 

[digitaloutsider]

Rust never really phased me....I'll take rust over dents any day

 

[98gpgt]

There's some rust, nothing catastrophic. I could just replace the control arms.

[Imp558]

People who live outside the rust belt definitely see rust differently.

[55trucker]

show us what you're dealing with..........I don't like giving opinions on that which I haven't seen