Schurkey Posted April 27, 2017 Report Share Posted April 27, 2017 Grade 8 bolts will be fine, but Grade 5 would work just fine. If a patch-plate will work (subframe not totally rotted-out) the worst part of this mess will be getting the original hardware out. Imp558 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cessna Posted April 27, 2017 Author Report Share Posted April 27, 2017 Yes make sure the rot has not caused more problems than what is showing on the surface like Shurkey suggested, if it is still intact you should be good to go if that would be a better alternative for you, like I said I need to take a closer look at mine when the time permits, that was just a simple suggestion,also make sure you use a strait edge to line up the holes you want to drill, the bolt should be as vertical as possible to eliminate any added stress....let me know if you try this and how it works out for you ......Cessna Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
95GS Posted April 28, 2017 Report Share Posted April 28, 2017 A little crowbar persuasion pried it up & off, with the bushing. Yes Shurkey, Grade 5 would probably do the job.. Bolts are 3/8 or 10mm (not sure), head is 1/2 inch (13mm), nut is 11/16. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
95GS Posted April 28, 2017 Report Share Posted April 28, 2017 the worst part of this mess will be getting the original hardware out. I think I'll need heat to get it apart. Cessna, I had thought of your suggestion, but dismissed it, thinking the top rot would be excessive, and a welded plate would be necessary. Welding would be better, but I may try through-bolts with a bottom plate, bought them today. Rot is not too bad, quite local to those two bolt holes. If welding a top plate, I would want to hammer down the top surface to leave a level finished surface. Not much room for a hammer there. Nor is it the easiest place to weld - rubber boots, brake & gas lines, sway bar in the way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schurkey Posted April 28, 2017 Report Share Posted April 28, 2017 1. The bolts are metric. Doesn't matter, you're not going to re-use them. 2. Don't bother trying to unthread the nuts. Scrap the old bolts and strap. 3. Buy a Polyurethane sway bar mount set of the proper diameter and bolt spacing. Comes with the Poly bushings, and new metal straps. You'll need to source bolts long enough to go through the subframe and reinforcement strap that you'll fabricate. May even need a reinforcement on the top of the subframe, under the sway bar mounts--maybe 1/16 thick or so. The top plate MIGHT be included with the sway bar mount set. https://www.summitracing.com/parts/ens-9-5159g My Luminas take the 23mm version. Yours may be different. 4. As long as you're spending money, you could consider replacing the end-links with Poly parts, too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cessna Posted April 30, 2017 Author Report Share Posted April 30, 2017 Wow Gs looks as tho you do have a little problem there, glad you got them out , like shurkey said in the trash is best for those 2, yes I would agree its going to be tight maybe you could get the width of the frame and kinda make a cap to fit over and weld on the sides instead of the top room permitting that is im not sure how much of an effect it would be on the sway bar if you used say 1/16 steel i would think the bushing could handle that amount without problem. Let us know how it all works out ..Cessna Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
95GS Posted May 2, 2017 Report Share Posted May 2, 2017 Thanks for the input. I made this repair last Friday using the old parts & new bolts. Will post a couple of pics in a day or two that might help cessna. The sub-frame rot could be worse, but could be better too - don't like to see steel missing at a corner spot.. Sub-frame really should be removed & inspected & welded up right. For now it will hold. Shurkey, I have new Moog poly bushings, but did not install - explanation to follow with pics. Good idea to place a thin top plate. Replaced the end bushings last year to stop bar vibration, but didn't help because the bar ends are worn from sand & road dirt - so there's play and it rattles around. This could be normal for the mileage - c.180,000 miles Possible solutions are to: 1.replace bar - but could be hard to source a good one. 2. build up the ends by filling low points with welding rod, then grind to shape. 3. inject polyurethane caulking into gap between bushing & bar - cheap fix. Overall lesson here: Could have been avoided by careful anti-rust oil spray treatment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cessna Posted May 9, 2017 Author Report Share Posted May 9, 2017 Hey GS any pics of the new mod yet ....would like to see how it turned out ............ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schurkey Posted May 10, 2017 Report Share Posted May 10, 2017 Replaced the end bushings last year to stop bar vibration, but didn't help because the bar ends are worn from sand & road dirt - so there's play and it rattles around. This could be normal for the mileage - c.180,000 miles Possible solutions are to: 1.replace bar - but could be hard to source a good one. 2. build up the ends by filling low points with welding rod, then grind to shape. 3. inject polyurethane caulking into gap between bushing & bar - cheap fix. Overall lesson here: Could have been avoided by careful anti-rust oil spray treatment Waiting on photos, as I don't understand how the end-links can have "play". I don't get this at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vipmiller803 Posted May 11, 2017 Report Share Posted May 11, 2017 (edited) Waiting on photos, as I don't understand how the end-links can have "play". I don't get this at all. Corrosion and debris rubbing over time can eat away at the bar metal, making the ends a smaller diameter than original, ultimately causing play inside the original bushings. This happens all the time in our wonderfully salty state. 3. inject polyurethane caulking into gap between bushing & bar - cheap fix. Don't do that, those need to rotate and there is no way you can get the poly perfectly round. You could look into bushings made for a smaller diameter. Performance wouldn't be affected much either, since the narrowing is at the end of the bar. Edited May 11, 2017 by vipmiller803 Imp558 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
95GS Posted July 6, 2017 Report Share Posted July 6, 2017 Corrosion and debris rubbing over time can eat away at the bar metal, making the ends a smaller diameter than original, ultimately causing play inside the original bushings. This happens all the time in our wonderfully salty state. Yes Schurkey, vip is correct on this - the anti sway bar is quite worn at the outer ends where it's in contact with the bushings. Lots of road salt & sand in this region. When I get around to fixing this, I'll take a pic for you. The inboard bushing contact point also quite worn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
95GS Posted July 6, 2017 Report Share Posted July 6, 2017 Hey GS any pics of the new mod yet ....would like to see how it turned out ............ Sorry to leave you hanging. Life threw a curve ball. I implemented your idea of through bolts and a bottom plate, using what I had on hand - 3/16, heavier than required. Thanks Schurkey for your input, I installed a new bushing, but kept the old U-bracket and nuts. From the looks of the old bushing, the anti-sway bar may have been knurled at that point, but these patterns have rusted/worn away. The sub frame and components warrant a closer inspection, disassembly, etc. Old Bushing - note knurl pattern Bracket split when other end broke loose, but still strong Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
95GS Posted July 6, 2017 Report Share Posted July 6, 2017 Daylight in top of subframe..bar worn Top plate reinforcement - could have been heavier.. Compare Components Installed An interim repair, but quite secure. Stopped the rattle & clunk. Later added hardened lock washers. Imp558 and primergray 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cessna Posted July 6, 2017 Author Report Share Posted July 6, 2017 looks like a winner there 95Gs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
95GS Posted July 6, 2017 Report Share Posted July 6, 2017 looks like a winner there 95Gs "Stabilized".... Did you fix your own - is it the same issue? BTW - as predicted, that old hardware was really stubborn - propane + lotsa torque, but the old nuts have nice large flanges, so worth keeping. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cessna Posted July 7, 2017 Author Report Share Posted July 7, 2017 My bushings look fine, seems to be coming from front strut on drivers side the more I look into it, thinking of changing front struts out don't really like these Monroe's the car has a lot of bounce to it .....more than i like anyway so after that we will see if it clears it up .......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Imp558 Posted July 7, 2017 Report Share Posted July 7, 2017 (edited) Nobody seems to like Gabriel Ultra struts but mine have treated me well. Not too soft but not performance stiff either. Kind of a nice dd middle ground. Edited July 7, 2017 by Imp558 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
95GS Posted July 7, 2017 Report Share Posted July 7, 2017 My bushings look fine, seems to be coming from front strut on drivers side the more I look into it, thinking of changing front struts out don't really like these Monroe's the car has a lot of bounce to it .....more than i like anyway so after that we will see if it clears it up .......... A lot of bounce may be a separate matter from rattle and clunk. Might need a closer inspection, with pry bar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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