worb4me Posted March 16, 2017 Report Share Posted March 16, 2017 Or in reality what fails inside the battery? My charging system problem still isn't fixed, but I'm getting closer LOL. Been pouring over the factory manuals, things that were mysterious are less so. Regardless I *have* been driving the car, it's doing well, but I already killed a battery, thankfully the managet replaced it for nothing. I'm charging it constantly obviously. I had bought a 30$ Schumaker charger from walmart, been doing much shorter charging intervals then with the prior battery, an hour or two instead of the full 6 - 7 hours. 8 amp charger. Can't say it's holding up much better. My question is is the electrolyte breaking down? Or are the plates becoming sulfated (from frequent charging or discharging?). Or both? Or something else? worb4me 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nas Escobar Posted March 16, 2017 Report Share Posted March 16, 2017 Non AGM batteries don't like to be deep cycled. If you have a charging problem or your car has parasitic drain, then the battery dying will be a common problem, especially if the battery drains overnight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
worb4me Posted March 16, 2017 Author Report Share Posted March 16, 2017 There most definitely is a problem with my charging system. The battery gets drained while driving. I'm not familiar with charging lingo like deep cycle or trickle etc. What I want to know is can this battery be replenished somehow. Either by replacing acid or scouring plates, not that the latter is practical. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nas Escobar Posted March 16, 2017 Report Share Posted March 16, 2017 There most definitely is a problem with my charging system. The battery gets drained while driving. I'm not familiar with charging lingo like deep cycle or trickle etc. What I want to know is can this battery be replenished somehow. Either by replacing acid or scouring plates, not that the latter is practical. Have you gotten the alternator tested? But no, batteries can only have water added from the top and that's it. You can't replace a cell, the acid or the scouring plate. I'd personally would recommend a dry cell battery. Those are usually sold as AGM batteries. Dry cell/AGM last longer. Imp558 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
55trucker Posted March 16, 2017 Report Share Posted March 16, 2017 This may be a bit *over your head*  1st do a simple system voltage test with a meter & the engine running  the voltage across a meter should read better than 13.8 volts at idle with no load on the system, do you have this?  Next  determine if there is a parasitic loss.....  is there a parasitic loss?.....  test the system with a digital multimeter to find out....... set the meter to DC 10 amps, insert the black (common lead) to the -com (or ground) terminal on the meter, connect the red lead to the meter's 10amp max terminal, disconnect the ground side of the battery, connect the meter between the battery & the ground cable (ground lead to neg on the battery, positive to ground cable), don't reverse the polarity, wait for the reading to stabilize, now read the amps passing thru the meter, if there is more than 50 milliamps/.05 amps flowing you have a parasitic loss.  Something in the system is using too much current, with the meter still attached start pulling fuses from the electrical centre, start with the small ones first, then pull the big ones, then pull the relays, watch the reading on the meter as you pull each one, you're looking for the item that causes a noticeable drop on the meter, when you find it that's what needs attention.   Next   assuming the battery is charged....  If you don't find a problem in the above test then pull the caps off the battery and test each cell with the meter, set the meter to dc volts 40, with the black lead on the battery ground dip the positive lead into each of the cells and note the voltage reading on the meter. Starting with the cell directly next to the negative terminal, you should see approx 2.2v, as you move to the next cell in line the voltage should increase approx 2.2v. When you get to the cell next to the positive terminal you should see approx 12.5 or better. If you get any reading on a cell that is low of this configuration you have a weak or bad cell. When finished clean your meter pos terminal with some acid neutralizer. rockfangd 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
worb4me Posted March 16, 2017 Author Report Share Posted March 16, 2017 None of that is too much for me, and many of those tests have been performed. I'm just wondering how any of that addresses my questions. Â In all likelihood the culprit is corrosion somewhere. I've just been dragging my feet horribly, and have been beset by inclement weather continuously. My queations have to do with the nitty gritty details of why batteries fail and what can be done about it. It may not be practical to carry out a battery overhaul, it would just be nice to know what it would take. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Imp558 Posted March 16, 2017 Report Share Posted March 16, 2017 It would take hours, special equipment, special training (not only in service but in materials handling) and a laboratory environment to actually repair a battery. Â Diagnosing your charging system requires a $8 multimeter from harbor freight and 15 minutes of reading on the internet, but it's all good bro...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
55trucker Posted March 16, 2017 Report Share Posted March 16, 2017 I see what you're getting at..  was under the impression that you've got a parasitic loss and you're constantly having to recharge the battery with a charger,  battery failure?..  constant *quick* recharging where high current in the end warps the plates causing a short  stratification...the acid sinks to the bottom of the cells, the battery appears to be fully charged but it actually suffers with poor CCA performance.  low electrolyte from exposure to high heat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GabsOlds Posted March 16, 2017 Report Share Posted March 16, 2017 Don't waste your time. Fix the problem. 1. Have your alternator tested. Replace if necessary. 2. Replace your wires, preferably with 4 gauge or thicker. 3. Upgrade to a better battery (only as an improvement, not to get around the problem). Nas Escobar 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
worb4me Posted March 16, 2017 Author Report Share Posted March 16, 2017 Diagnosing your charging system requires a $8 multimeter from harbor freight and 15 minutes of reading on the internet, but it's all good bro...... Oi I wish. Funny thing is I had no idea even where the grounds were, assuming that's even the problem, until I flipped through, I don't know, 200+ pages of the service manuals. All the diagnostic info lightly touches on wiring/corrosion. Watchex a bunch of videos too. Â I am not a master mechanic, nor diagnostician (is that a word?). This, to me, is an unusual problem. No I haven't pulled the remanned alt to have it tested, probably will. I just feel that's not the problem. I'm learning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Imp558 Posted March 16, 2017 Report Share Posted March 16, 2017 What's the vehicle, YMM/Engine? Is there already a thread on this charging issue? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rockfangd Posted March 17, 2017 Report Share Posted March 17, 2017 If the car is going dead while driving it, it is obviously a charging issue. While the engine is running check the stud on the alternator. Voltage when running should be anywhere between 13.5 and 14 volts. Start there. This thread could use some more specific info as to what the car is doing. Year make, and model helps too. In all of my experience books are not always the answer. What is in my head could never be put into a book. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
worb4me Posted March 17, 2017 Author Report Share Posted March 17, 2017 But what alyernatives do you have if you can't get sufficient info anywhere else?? You may not have taken the time to put it on paper, maybe it's difficult to put it into words. But it's not impossible. I awkwardly tried to explain how I diagnosed a bad computer in my old 1992 Lumina. I should have rewritten that e-mail, in fact I will do it and post it as an article somewhere. Explaining all the nitty gritty, including how my prior knowledge of computers and electricty made it happen isn't easy (and I know it sounds like a joke being I haven't fixed this car yet, but this is different, a bit awkward to find and get at some stuff, everything isn't right on top. And that's where the service manuals came in. I figured out where 1 or 2 of the grounds are, that was just the first session. Like I said I'm still learning.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Padgett Posted March 17, 2017 Report Share Posted March 17, 2017 Do you have an Autozone nearby ? Around here they are very good about diagnosing a problem. Or if you are near Orlando you could just come here. If I needed a battery this time of the year, I'd check out the Sears Diehard Gold AGM - is on sale at the moment. But it is really sounding like an alternator problem to me. A pro would know where to stick a screwdriver to check the regulator. Imp558 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nas Escobar Posted March 17, 2017 Report Share Posted March 17, 2017 He's from NJ. I doubt Orlando is an option for him Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
movielover40 Posted March 17, 2017 Report Share Posted March 17, 2017 Look for a Battery Wholesale shop.  Pull in there and let them check out charging system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pitzel Posted April 2, 2017 Report Share Posted April 2, 2017 There's a relay that controls the door locks that is notorious for sticking in an energized position, draining the battery slowly.  When I finally figured that out, voila, battery drain problems went away and I can leave the car un-started for a month and it fires up straight away!  What car is it anyways? If if has the seat belt built into in the door setup, then it probably has the bad relay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
worb4me Posted April 2, 2017 Author Report Share Posted April 2, 2017 what was draining the battery was a BAD ALTERNATOR!!! I was too lazy too pull it, then remanned one that I replaced the original with. When I finally did it, they tested it at advance, twice, after they gave it back to me the first time I noticed a pin was bent. It failed stator voltage and dc voltage test. Now ... at long last, I have my car! Ok now got to deal with gasket issues and the like. Still needs a good deal of work, but I'm not killing batteries. In fact the one I was using w/o a charging system for nearly 5 weeks is doing well. I'll return the one I bought. Saves me money for a van I'm looking to buy. It's like a long dark winter is over ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GabsOlds Posted April 3, 2017 Report Share Posted April 3, 2017 Don't waste your time. Fix the problem. 1. Have your alternator tested. Replace if necessary. 2. Replace your wires, preferably with 4 gauge or thicker. 3. Upgrade to a better battery (only as an improvement, not to get around the problem). It's good that you solved the problem. Now you can move on to the other 2 steps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nas Escobar Posted April 3, 2017 Report Share Posted April 3, 2017 You know he's not gonna do the other 2 now that he figured it's a bad alternator. Â Never knew bad alternators could drain the battery. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
worb4me Posted April 3, 2017 Author Report Share Posted April 3, 2017 It's good that you solved the problem. Now you can move on to the other 2 steps. Â It wasn't about wasting time so much, just about basic information. Never thought battery chemistry was that involved. But if it were the case that replenishing electrolyte and a basic cleaning, if practical, I don't think it would be a waste of time. Hard to save money for a nudda vehicle when you have to drop a c note every month. But I'm going to return this battery being the other one is doing ok. Can always buy one down the road as needed. The battery was a Bosch by the way. Not top of the line, but not too shabby I don't think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
worb4me Posted April 3, 2017 Author Report Share Posted April 3, 2017 You know he's not gonna do the other 2 now that he figured it's a bad alternator. Â Never knew bad alternators could drain the battery. Â Â Well it's good that you're learning new things. How long did you think you could drive a car w/a bad alternator? Battery is going to die eventually, no? Â Â Â Â Anyway I've already purchased a timing chain set, wheel bearings (one is done), ball joints, i/o tie rods, vc gaskets, o2 sensor (need a nudda one as both codes are present now, upstream and downstream), engine/tranny mounts, did the dogbones, yeah I'm lazy. Have 2 change the oil this week. I got my work cut out for me. As to the big 3 upgrade, thank you for reminding me, I should find the time amidst all the other stuff to do, weather is lots nicer. Will probably have to do the lim gasket, and replace the plenum. I'm still thinking of casting a replacement in aluminum as I don't want to spend 250$ for an 04+ plenum and adapter. Really don't have machinery that big to do the job, but there's workarounds if you're old skool enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
worb4me Posted April 3, 2017 Author Report Share Posted April 3, 2017 and incidentally I bought one of those Schumaker Red Fuel units. I believe there are 2 versions, mine is the cheaper variety, about 50$ at wallyworld. The thing sure does work. My battery was about 10.5vdc, I plugged it in and in seconds the car started up. Unit then read 99%. Nifty and it charges in 2.5 hours (maybe less). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nas Escobar Posted April 3, 2017 Report Share Posted April 3, 2017 Well it's good that you're learning new things. How long did you think you could drive a car w/a bad alternator? Battery is going to die eventually, no? The way it usually happens to me is that if the alternator messes up, I'm running on straight battery but if I charge it, it won't deplete. I never had a car where the alternator drains the battery just sitting. You know? Usually a bad alternator won't charge so I only get 10-15 minutes out the battery Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Imp558 Posted April 3, 2017 Report Share Posted April 3, 2017 I suppose if the rectifier bridge were shorting that would indeed cause an alternator to deplete a battery. As would shorted superfucked windings in theory. vipmiller803 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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