02 GP Performance Shift

[Grandprix1]

With the stock PCM it's nothing but a light though right?

 

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It's a PCM from ZZP. I wanted to keep the stock tune on the stock PCM in case I ever sell it (not happening) or just in case something goes wrong I have the stock tune. It's got ZZP shift tables in it. Stock shift tables when Performance Shift is off. ZZP shift tables when it's on as well as raised rev limiter and skip shift

[l67ss]

For the record Saturn's and mid 90s grand ams had perf shift

[jaredbonner1]

For the record Saturn's and mid 90s grand ams had perf shift

It's funny because my 1997 Saturn dd has a performance button that doesn't do much at all

 

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[l67ss]

To be fair a Saturn doesn't have much performance to shift

[jaredbonner1]

Especially since it burns oil and coolant as much as it does gas now

 

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[Imp558]

With the stock PCM it's nothing but a light though right?

 

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I believe you were asking, the answer is yes.

Without having the perf mode tables flashed in or replacing the PCM with one that has perf mode tables this is just a neato indicator on the DIC and while the PCM will indeed switch tables those tables are exactly the same as the normal mode tables.

[jaredbonner1]

I believe you were asking, the answer is yes.

Without having the perf mode tables flashed in or replacing the PCM with one that has perf mode tables this is just a neato indicator on the DIC and while the PCM will indeed switch tables those tables are exactly the same as the normal mode tables.

Honestly if the light is already there I think it would be fun to have a switch to scare people in the passenger seat 😂

[Imp558]

Honestly if the light is already there I think it would be fun to have a switch to scare people in the passenger seat

 

Find an aircraft supply store and order a barf bag dispenser for the passenger's side, that'll raise an eyebrow here and there.

[White93z34]

I had a car with a "performance shift" switch AND light. Never scared a single person.

 

But, yes if you want it the PCM first has to be flashed to enable the tables.

[Grandprix1]

I know the tune I have is more aggressive then what would come from the factory. It's not true performance shift either. I still have 4th gear and it shifts at normal shift points until 50% throttle then it runs all the way up to redline or just a smidge past it. As long as the roads aren't wet or damp when it down shifts twice it's just on the edge of loosing traction and it pulls hard.

 

 

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[digitaloutsider]

What is "true" performance shift?  And what does 4th gear have to do with it?  Fourth gear is still there in factory PS tables.

[Grandprix1]

From what I had read about

It when I originally decided to go about this was that when your turned performance shift on (stock performance tables) u didn't have 4th gear to keep you in the power band and it shifted at high rpms

 

 

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[digitaloutsider]

Whoever told you that is incorrect.

 

The ONLY thing performance shift does is change shift time, shift pressure per TPS angle % and shift points.  That is it. Which is why it doesn't make sense to have it turned off, just leave it on all the time (hence our suggestion to just put the PS vales in the normal shift tables).

[jaredbonner1]

Speaking of PCMs, what's the best brand to get? I know people don't like the zzp ones. I was looking at intense because I heard people like them

 

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[Grandprix1]

Speaking of PCMs, what's the best brand to get? I know people don't like the zzp ones. I was looking at intense because I heard people like them

 

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I've personally never had an issue with ZZP I like the way it runs. It runs better at high RPMs then the stock tune and it just feels better. You get a lot for what u pay. And they are very flexible with what u want to do with it to an extent unless they have the car. Their customer service is great and has always answered my questions which were extensive before I did the tune. Give them a shot.

[White93z34]

I'd wager on a overall stock L36 car it doesn't make much of a difference when it comes to canned tunes.

[digitaloutsider]

Agreed, there's nothing really to notice on an N/A car. I'm not particularly impressed with any of the canned tunes I've looked at, with ZZP being one of the worst offenders (completely disabling torque reduction on shifts, rather aggressive spark advance for an otherwise stock car, etc).

 

Will at Overkill makes a good product and is generally considered to be one of the better canned tunes, but he's impossible to get a hold of.

[94 olds vert]

I have been considering getting an overkill tune. At the 3800 meet last summer, I talked to someone who had that tune, and he told me it was better than the ZZP tune he had.

 

http://www.getoverkilled.ca/3800sc.html

[Grandprix1]

Agreed, there's nothing really to notice on an N/A car. I'm not particularly impressed with any of the canned tunes I've looked at, with ZZP being one of the worst offenders (completely disabling torque reduction on shifts, rather aggressive spark advance for an otherwise stock car, etc).

 

Will at Overkill makes a good product and is generally considered to be one of the better canned tunes, but he's impossible to get a hold of.

Is not having torque management a bad thing? I think the spark advanced is more for the S/C application to reduce KR but I don't notice much of a difference. I've actually gotten better gas mileage on the ZZP tune then I have on the stock tune. What does overkill have that ZZP doesn't offer? I would like it to tune for HP more but that's hard with out having a dyno tune and I'm not paying $500 for one.

[digitaloutsider]

Overly aggressive spark advance = more KR, not less.

 

Completely disabling torque management on already fragile transmissions is a recipe for broken input shafts and stretched chains, but on an L36 car, I wouldn't worry about it.  They're stout enough to take most anything an N/A 3800 is going to throw at it assuming you don't drive like a total dick.  Some parts of TM programming needs to go, like injector disabling, but ZZP has the only tune I've ever seen from anyone where torque reduction is totally disabled.  You don't see that in Overkill, INTENSE, or even old DHP 1.5.

 

I highly doubt there are any hidden ponies in an L36 that you're going to find with a tune.  If you want power, bolt a blower on.

 

As for ZZP vs Overkill, the general consensus is that ZZP simply quenches knock with lots of fuel instead of proper tuning.  Read around on various groups, ZZP PCMs had a very bad name for a very long time for a good reason.

[Grandprix1]

So what I'm understanding is by disabling torque management and more spark advance I'm actually doing worse to my car then what I thought was doing better?

 

 

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[digitaloutsider]

Shorter answer:

 

Are you showing crazy amounts of KR?  If no, don't worry about the spark advance if it's working for you.  L36s have lots of KR in the stock tune, anything lower than stock is fine.

Did ZZP tune it well?  You have an Aeroforce gauge, are your LTFTs all over the place?

Do you have enough power to break the transmission?  No, probably not. Even at stock 14% torque reduction, an L67 car is still putting more torque through the trans than you with TR disabled.

 

Longer answer:

 

Spark/fueling/enrichment/MAF tables become a much bigger issue when you're dealing with modded, boosted cars.  A ZZP PCM is probably OK for a mostly stock car (still wouldn't run one because they're simply not good). People get into trouble with canned tunes because they start trying to do too much with it. Once you start dropping pulleys beyond the ~3.5" range, you really need to begin tuning yourself, or find a friend who knows how.  At the very least, find a canned tuner who is willing to work off of your scans.

 

Basically, there's not much to screw up on your car because there's not much to go wrong.  I personally wouldn't have paid for a ZZP PCM, but if your primary goal was making the car have Performance Shift, it'll work for you. Drive it and don't worry about it.  If you decide to go boosted or start swapping gear ratios, buy a tuner.

[Grandprix1]

Shorter answer:

 

Are you showing crazy amounts of KR? If no, don't worry about the spark advance if it's working for you.

Do you have enough power to break the transmission? No, probably not. Even at stock 14% torque reduction, an L67 car is still putting more torque through the trans than you with TR disabled.

 

Longer answer:

 

Spark/fueling/enrichment/MAF tables become a much bigger issue when you're dealing with modded, boosted cars. A ZZP PCM is probably OK for a mostly stock car (still wouldn't run one because they're simply not good). People get into trouble with canned tunes because they start trying to do too much with it. Once you start dropping pulleys beyond the ~3.5" range, you really need to begin tuning yourself, or find a friend who knows how. At the very least, find a canned tuner who is willing to work off of your scans.

 

Basically, there's not much to screw up on your car because there's not much to go wrong. I personally wouldn't have paid for a ZZP PCM, but if your primary goal was making the car have Performance Shift, it'll work for you. Drive it and don't worry about it. If you decide to go boosted or start swapping gear ratios, buy a tuner.

Ok that's what I needed to know lol. I'd like to learn how to tune but I can't afford hpTuners. It does what I want it to do. I can break the tires loose and keep them loose but I don't do that. Tires are expensive and so are diffs and transmission.

[jake91]

I have been considering getting an overkill tune. At the 3800 meet last summer, I talked to someone who had that tune, and he told me it was better than the ZZP tune he had.

 

http://www.getoverkilled.ca/3800sc.html

Ive heard nothing but praises for overkill

[Grandprix1]

Highest knock retard got during about a 75% throttle run from about 60mph was 6.5 I'm guessing that's nothing drastic

 

 

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