replacing wheel bearings - no torque wrench

[worb4me]

1998 GP GT

 

I did bothe front sides on my Beretta oh 1995. I seem to recall having to stand on the ratchet or was it the breaker bar. I was 270 - 290 then, 312 now. I went as far as putting the donut on one side of the car last night ( hole in rim otherwise too small to accept socket ) and using my foot some to break it loose, but not a lot. What's a good means of estimating the 85 - 95 ft. Lbs needed? Was the nut just not tight enough and that's what was making all the noise (doubt it). And it was making a lot of noise once you went over 30 mph. I have a 30$ torque wrench from Walmart at mom's 30 miles away, but ain't getting on the bus just for that.

[Padgett]

100 ft-lbs is the same as for an alloy wheel lug nut so the same as that. 50 lbs on an 18" breaker would be 75 lb-ft so in there. Are talking about the hub nut - right ?

Edited May 25, 2016 by Padgett

[Bake82]

No good way to estimate this.  You need a torque wrench.

 

Here's a good reason why:

 

My 1991 civic rear wheel bearing nut torque is like 142ftlbs.  I thought I'd try it a little bit tighter to 150.  It was a race car and I didn't like the idea of a wheel coming off.

 

When I tightened it to 150ftlbs, the wheel hardly moved.  I backed it off to 142 and it was smooth as it should be.  Who knew 8ftlbs would make such a big difference, but it does. To me this isn't something that is "tight enough".  Do it right the first time or do it twice!

 

 

Don't skimp, get the proper tool, or you'll be doing wheel bearings again shortly.

[Imp558]

Whoever had the Regal before me didn't find it necessary to torque the lug nuts properly. Over the first year almost all of them broke. Every time I pulled a wheel 1 or 2 lugs would break.

[55trucker]

What is your question in reference to?

 

the torque spec for the three bolts holding the hub to the knuckle?  55 ft.lbs

 

the torque spec of the wheel lugs?  100ft.lbs

 

the torque spec for the axle shaft retaining nut? 185 ft.lbs

 

*replacing wheel bearings - no torque wrench*

 

*What's a good means of estimating the 85 - 95 ft. Lbs needed?*

 

answer..as stated there is none ...unless of course you have a calibrated wrist

[vipmiller803]

Hubs can be picky about their torque. Too loose and you have a loose tire up and down causing driveability issues, with wheel bearing failure to follow. Too tight and premature wheel bearing failure due to overstress/overheating. You have about a 30ish ft.lb margin of error where you are safe. If you want to risk it by hand, do it... I wouldn't

 

Also, keep in mind that a bad wheel bearing may be loose enough that the nut isn't nearly as tight as it should be. You should follow torque specs for new hubs, not what the old one was at. That is a sure way to kill the new one.

[Psych0matt]

I've never torqued a hub assembly properly, and never had an issue (also didn't realize those were something that we're picky about it)

[worb4me]

Well not to be contentious, but like Matt I did both those bearings 20 years ago and drop the car for another 4 years. The a1a video said 85 - 95. Used 95 iirc in the actual assembly. That's less then 60 lbs at the end of an 18" breaker bar, which really isn't a lot. I guess maybe I only has a 1/2" ratchet back then. It needed a lot of force to come off. I reciprocated by applying a lot. I'll have to look up specs for the Beretta.

 

I may just do my best drive itbeasy then go get the torquwr.

[mfewtrail]

1998 is 118 ft-lbs for the front hub nut. 55 for the three holding the hub to the knuckle. 100 for the lug nuts. It's super common to need much more force than the torqued to value upon removal. If you're using a new hub it should come with torque specs. My 118 ft-lb spec is from multiple repair resources. Get yourself a cheap torque wrench from harbor freight. So long as you treat it well it will do just fine for stuff like lug nuts, hubs, etc that fall within its torque range. They're like 10 bucks. +- 4% accuracy I believe which is more than good enough for something like this.

[Imp558]

This thread is beyond asinine, I own a toilet but I don't shit my pants and make a mess out of convenience. Nor do I declare how well my previous pant pooping endeavors worked out to justify my actions.

[Psych0matt]

Not sure if you're referring to me, I was just saying that I never realized there was actual torque specs for that, I just tightened them down and have never had an issue. What you do with your pants is up to you

[rich_e777]

 I own a toilet but I don't shit my pants and make a mess out of convenience.

I mean... really? Not even if its absolutely convenient?

 

I agree 100% though, a torque wrench is an absolute must when working on these things. If I were the OP I`d get them about ballpark numbers and SLOWLY, like people screaming death threats at you slowly, go get the torque wrench then torque them to spec. Then when your done with it, put the wrench down in your spare wheel well so it never leaves the car.

[Padgett]

Do not care for click wrenches from HF. Have used a Craftsman beam wrench for years. Don't suppose it really matters but have found some click wrenches to be way off. (So I use a beam to calibrate them).

[mfewtrail]

Do not care for click wrenches from HF. Have used a Craftsman beam wrench for years. Don't suppose it really matters but have found some click wrenches to be way off. (So I use a beam to calibrate them).

I've seen the cheapies tested and more often than not they are accurate enough. I would stick to only stuff like lug or hub nuts on a hf cheapie personally. You have to put quite a bit extra on either of those items to cause a problem in my experience. I prefer split beam clickers. For $100 you can get a USA made split beam that will hold up to daily use for years and years to come. No need to run them back down to minimum torque like the micrometer style clickers when done torquing a fastener. Beam style still have their place as well and can be had cheap, they're just not that commonly available for purchase locally anymore. I use or have used every style made. I've never broken a single bolt when using torque wrenches, using everything from snap-on, cdi, etc. all the way to taiwan or china cheap ones. I don't know where hf's are made but if taiwan is an option over china(it is on a lot of hf sockets at least), I would go with the taiwanese option.

[Padgett]

Snapped 3 of 5 wheel lugs on my trailer soon after purchase. Some gorilla with a bigger air gun than hat size had put 5 12mm nuts on 1/2-20 studs. Replaced all.

 

ps see here.

Edited May 27, 2016 by Padgett

[worb4me]

Im the op so I guess imp's reply was more directed towards moi.

 

Everyone of us goes by experience, or not in some cases, as in gueastimating torque when you didn't have the wherewithal to actually know a tw is a good idea (and I do own one, in fact going to mom's tomorrow for an entirely different reason. Hope I can find it!). Haven't used it, bought it over 10 years ago at Wallyworld for 30$, thought it might come im handy.

 

Some peoples sense of feel is better then others. You don't have to rely on that, but sometimes you're forced to. Everyone is chock full of great advice, telling you what to buy or who's qualified to accomplish the repair. Often their are workarounds. 1000% percent agreement wheel bearings are an extremely critical item, the whole car dependa on their proper execution of their duties. But we all have to get by with a little less, even if it's just for a while. And if it's any consolation the car is still parked. But what I'll do is torque them to my satisfaction, then check with the torquer just to see how amazing my innate abilities are.

[Schurkey]

I prefer split beam clickers. For $100 you can get a USA made split beam that will hold up to daily use for years and years to come. No need to run them back down to minimum torque like the micrometer style clickers when done torquing a fastener. Beam style still have their place as well and can be had cheap, they're just not that commonly available for purchase locally anymore.

The downside to the split-beam torque wrenches is that they CAN NOT be used in the reverse direction (to check break-away torque)

 

The downsides to the old bending-beam torque wrenches is that hand position is critical, you have to be able to see the needle against the dial straight-on, (No parallax error) and there's no ratchet on the end.  The mechanism can be very accurate and never needs to be sent-out for calibration--but--the chances of operator error are very high.

 

Torque wrench calibration shops often charge more for foreign-made torque wrenches--or flat-out refuse to work on them.

 

I have a batch of torque products going in the shop for "check-up" tomorrow.  The shop gets $50 for a quick tune-up on a mechanical click-type torque wrench (up to 250 ft/lbs), more if there's something actually wrong beyond adjustment.   That goes to $125 for an electronic torque wrench (another reason to not own one.)

[Imp558]

I forgot about this thread... or ... tried to, but now that I see it again it's also good to point out that there were 2 different hole sizes in the wheel bearing assemblies. If you use the small bolts in the one that was intended for the large ones they don't catch much metal.

In which case I suppose you may as well forego the proper torquing too because it's already terribly frightening and there's not a hell of a lot more that can go wrong at that point.

[worb4me]

Which bolt holes are we talking about? If you're suggesting being somewhat off regatding torque represents the same danger as bearing mounting bolts giving out, well, I just have to scratch my head. If I understand you even. More specifics would be helpful, and I do appreciate your input believe me.

[Imp558]

when you purchase a hub assembly the hub assembly is available with two different hole sizes 2 mount to the spindle.

[Nas Escobar]

when you purchase a hub assembly the hub assembly is available with two different hole sizes 2 mount to the spindle.

 

On a first gen?

[Imp558]

On a first gen?

Yes I think one is 10 millimeter and the other is a 14 millimeter don't hold me to that I'm just pulling from my very very bad memory. Rich works at AutoZone he should know what I'm talking about.

[Nas Escobar]

Yes I think one is 10 millimeter and the other is a 14 millimeter don't hold me to that I'm just pulling from my very very bad memory. Rich works at AutoZone he should know what I'm talking about.

 

What year did they make this change? My 94 is all 13 (or 14, can't recall for sure).

[Psych0matt]

What year did they make this change? My 94 is all 13 (or 14, can't recall for sure).

thats what I was thinking

[Imp558]

It's the rear hub assemblies I'm remembering, and somehow I even remembered the bolt sizes correctly.