Cam/Head upgrade advice needed

[euro1990]

Hey all. Just moved over from Yahoo!, seems most people use this now. Fine with me, I hate Yahoo.

 

Lumina's been out of comission since May. Call me lazy, just been too busy to fix her. Timing chain broke at about 95 MPH, ended up bending 4 valves.

 

http://www.tosinet.com/luminaeuro/heads.jpg

http://www.tosinet.com/luminaeuro/engine.jpg

 

While I have her apart, I'm considering a new cam and maybe some 3100

heads. Just wanted to know if anyone else has done a similar mod... I

read an article on 60degreeV6 a while back about 3.1/3100 intake

swaps, but I cant find it now. I'm really only interested in the

heads, I'm curious if they're a direct swap.

 

As for cams, I'd like to get something to improve the top-end power,

my stock 3.1 always seemed to lose it over 4000 RPM. Jonathan had an

upgraded cam in his 90 3.1/5-speed Lumina (that I drove back in 99?)

and he wasn't very happy with the results. Car seemed faster than

mine, but not as much as it should be for what he spent.

 

Well, thanks for any good advice, I look forward to the knowledge of

this board. I hate to say it, but since the Lumina died, it's been my

88 Caravan as a daily driver. And let's just say the Chrysler 3.0

board is full of F'ing idiots. Plain and simple.

 

Thanks!

[MaD]

I heard that minivan plenum/heads?? will bolt onto a multi-port engine, and the flow is way better than the stock intake manifolds??

 

 

Mind you, I don't know what in the hell I'm talking about, I'm simply recycling the information I've heard

 

-MaD-

[weisinator]

Google.com is your friend. Searching for "3100 heads 3.1" retreives the following document: http://www.60degreev6.com/download/3100swap.txt

 

60degreev6 looks to be going through some growing pains, so sit tight and check later for a formatted version.

[GnatGoSplat]

You will have great difficulty using just the 3100 heads and the 3.1 intake because the ports are differently shaped. I believe the best way to go if you want 3100 heads, is to use the 3100 intake and plenum as well.

[euro1990]

Well, I wasn't sure what was the difference. Was trying to go for the easiest swap, the rest of the swap sounded like a pain.

 

Oh well, I'll just be glad to get her running again. I've been driving my brother's $300 89 Regal lately just to get the feel of the W...

 

So... any cam advice? Anyone ever do one? Should I get new lifters?

[SuperBuick]

Lorenzo knows a ton about these motors.....try asking him.

[Brian P]

Well, I wasn't sure what was the difference. Was trying to go for the easiest swap, the rest of the swap sounded like a pain.

 

Oh well, I'll just be glad to get her running again. I've been driving my brother's $300 89 Regal lately just to get the feel of the W...

 

So... any cam advice? Anyone ever do one? Should I get new lifters?

 

you need new lifters with any new cam... there are a lot of cams out there for the 2.8/3.1...you could go "mild or wild" Lorenzo has the Crane 272 which is one of the highest lift available short of a reground custom job. The Crane 230 (old compucam) and the 250 which I might pick up, are sufficient for stock motors. If you want 3100 heads, you'll need the exhaust manifolds from a 3x00 due to the different shaped ports. And since you'll need to use the lower and upper intake off a 3x00, you need to connect the 3x00 throttle body, which will need to be custom (though shouldnt be too hard)

[Guest TurboSedan]

aq

[Brian P]

I got the opportunity to compare the 3100 intake runners to the 3.1...holy shit what a size difference. The 3100 had much larger runners, though they are a little shorter. I dont remember if the 3100 fuel rail is the same as the 3.1, but I assume the 3.1 injectors will fit in the 3100 intake. Hell if we can get mustang and buick 3.3L injectors to fit! Also the MAP and IAC are in very similar locations and will work without a flaw.

[GnatGoSplat]

The 3100 definitely breathes a lot better than the 3.1L, but all this improved mid/upper range comes at the expense of low end. The 3100 doesn't have a lot of low end. In fact, around town it feels really doggy. You really have to give it a good deal of pedal.

[Brian P]

Just for the sake of argument, a lot of people on the 60 degree V6 board are thinking that the reason the 3x00 has no low end torque because of the computer programming. For example, on Chris William's first motor he had a 3.1 block with 3100 intake manifolds, heads, and exh manifolds and he had a LOT of low end still. He used the 3.1 programming and later on modified it. His motor ran soooo much better than the 3100 in my mom's car, which is anemic at low speeds...

[GnatGoSplat]

Anything is possible, but general rule is longer, narrower intake runners = better low end while shorter, larger intake runners = better high end.

Put shorter, larger intake runners on a 3.1L and it should instantly decrease low-end.

[Guest TurboSedan]

qa

[Vegeta]

I think the low end loss is with the roller cam. The intake setup makes sense in theory but on chris' car it just wasn't the case at all. Im not so sure on the computer tuning cause the 3100 is flash.

 

You can fit larger valves but it will take some work and its not likely gonna help cause the manifolds still suck for the 3.1. The 3100 heads wont change compression, or by much at all if there is a slight change. I am pretty sure they are the same.

 

Wiring would all be the same if you do the top end swap, minus having to extend some wires.

[Brian P]

I think the low end loss is with the roller cam. The intake setup makes sense in theory but on chris' car it just wasn't the case at all. Im not so sure on the computer tuning cause the 3100 is flash.

 

You can fit larger valves but it will take some work and its not likely gonna help cause the manifolds still suck for the 3.1. The 3100 heads wont change compression, or by much at all if there is a slight change. I am pretty sure they are the same.

 

Wiring would all be the same if you do the top end swap, minus having to extend some wires.

 

I thought chris is using the 3.1 ECM, right?

[Vegeta]

Yes he is, which doesn't help for us knowing why the 3100 has no low end in terms of the computer. We dont know the 3100 code. The only difference we know of between what chris was running (and others now) and the 3100, which is the cam.

[Brian P]

Call me a PITA, but can't we say the flash computer that the 3100 uses is the reason why the stock 3x00's have zero low-end, since Chris has a ton of it using the 3.1 computer? I'm not sure if that's what you meant or not...