GrandPrix34 Posted November 24, 2003 Report Share Posted November 24, 2003 i did a search on the subject and my spark is very weak yellow not a blue...plus it wont start and when i do manage to get it to start, it sounds horrible like satan himself laughing (no joke!) wat sensor does the 93 DOHC have? The 3X or the 24X? And its located behind the engine on the middle of the block, i know, but could i access it from the top? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrandPrix34 Posted November 24, 2003 Author Report Share Posted November 24, 2003 Detach the sensor connector and install jumper wires from the power and ground terminals of the sensor connector to the wiring harness. This permits the sensor to receive power and ground without signaling the ignition system during inspection. NOTE: Do not connect a jumper wire to the signal terminal on the sensor. This will cause the engine to start. Use extreme caution when performing this test. now i know how to jack a car :-D kinda like gone in 60 secs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robby1870 Posted November 24, 2003 Report Share Posted November 24, 2003 I doubt you could access it from the top. Your best bet is from below. Dont know about the 3x or 24x though....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
99RegalGS Posted November 24, 2003 Report Share Posted November 24, 2003 If my Chiltons book is right it's a 3x. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrandPrix34 Posted November 24, 2003 Author Report Share Posted November 24, 2003 hey robby, how did you remvoe it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robby1870 Posted November 24, 2003 Report Share Posted November 24, 2003 hey robby, how did you remvoe it? Alright, its (like you said) in the middle of the block at the bottom. One bolt right beside it holds it in place. Take that bolt out, the just pull it out. However, the "just pull it out" part is not that easy. Its going to be stuck and not want to come out. Keep pulling on it and twisting it maybe to get it out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrandPrix34 Posted November 24, 2003 Author Report Share Posted November 24, 2003 here's a simpler question...how to get to it? Just lift the car on jackstands and remove the alternator cooling duct/rack and pinion heat shield and its right there? Hope its not the alternator cooling duct cuz that baby is siliconed on there since they repaired my alternator :-D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robby1870 Posted November 24, 2003 Report Share Posted November 24, 2003 Yeah, basically, take stuff off the belt end of the motor so that you can reach your hand through to get to it. I havent done it on a DOHC, but I bet its harder, especially since you have an auto Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrandPrix34 Posted November 24, 2003 Author Report Share Posted November 24, 2003 yeah lets see how it goes...maybe ill replace my alternator while im at it...lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joey b Posted November 24, 2003 Report Share Posted November 24, 2003 A bad CPS should have nothing to do with a weak spark. The CPS simply tells the car WHEN to fire. However, it may be broken. Test the voltages at the ICM before even bothering to try to change it cause it is a PITA. If it reads correct voltage then look elsewhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrandPrix34 Posted November 24, 2003 Author Report Share Posted November 24, 2003 how do i test voltage at the ICM? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joey b Posted November 24, 2003 Report Share Posted November 24, 2003 there are 3 harnesses on the ICM. You have to disconnect the 2 wire harness that is next to the 5 wire harness. That runs directly to the CPS. Use some alligator clips to test while someone turns the engine over. The car will not start cause the CPS is not attached to the ICM. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AWeb80 Posted November 26, 2003 Report Share Posted November 26, 2003 any word on that yet GP34 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joey b Posted November 26, 2003 Report Share Posted November 26, 2003 what did you find out aweb? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrandPrix34 Posted November 26, 2003 Author Report Share Posted November 26, 2003 well first disconnected the 2 wire harness connector from the right side of the ICM as described in the GM manual...tested with the igntion on the ON position and sure enough there was current flowing thru their... 2nd, disconnected the 3 wire connector and checked for OHMS also with the ignition "ON" (not running though) and the book stated there should be between 900 - 1000ohms....918 registed on the Multimeter 3rd and final test, it asked for me 2 crank the engine on the same harness connector and using my remote start i cranked the engine (on this step i had to switch the Mutlimeter to the 2volt AC position but mine is digital so it automatically does that) and the book mentioned there ahd to be greater than .1 volt running thru the harness...... .1018 on the multimeter So after these test, the book concludes that i have to replace the ICM Now this fancy piece of machinery cost a pretty penny which i am using to pay off a major debt :-( Once out of the car, is there any way to check the ICM before i go out and buy a Declo replacement? Any tips or advice on this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrandPrix34 Posted November 26, 2003 Author Report Share Posted November 26, 2003 the odd thing is the 2wire harnes connector next to the 5 wire connector actually has 3 wires...the book shows it having an "A" "B" and "C" positon... Connectors "A" and "C" run directly to the cranksenor while connector "B" is a shielded ground wire... the actual ON HAND harness has a purple and a yellow wire which i matched perfectly to the ones on the book... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AWeb80 Posted November 26, 2003 Report Share Posted November 26, 2003 what did you find out aweb? Hopefully this weekend, it's been way too fucking cold here, and i've been workin alot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrandPrix34 Posted November 26, 2003 Author Report Share Posted November 26, 2003 AH! I had a GM mechanic come to the house to check the car...i managed to get it to run but here's wat he said: - Timing is off (how! All the marks line up, TDC and Crank line up?!?!) - POssilbe Bent valve (WTF?? I thought these were not interference motors!) He said he would charge me 130 to time the engine but he mentioned pulling it in and out of the engine bay to line up marks (WTF?!?!?!) AH! Im lost!! Wat are simptoms of a bad ICM?!?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joey b Posted November 26, 2003 Report Share Posted November 26, 2003 take it off (as much of a biatch as it is to do) and take it to Napa. They will test it for free. If it tests ok, put it back in and start your car. I have had that work once. Don't know how, but it did. But yeah, Napa tests it for free. While it is off test the resistance on your ignition coils. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slade901 Posted November 27, 2003 Report Share Posted November 27, 2003 Getting the resistance, voltage of your crankshaft position sensor does not give you 100% confirmation. A Digital Storage Oscilloscope (DSO) can confirm the sensor signal pattern to see if it has a good pattern or not. Replacing the CPS is cheap and it might be PITA but cheap. I think the 3.4L engine or all the DOHC engine also uses a Camshaft Position Sensor in addition to the Crankshaft Position Sensor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joey b Posted November 27, 2003 Report Share Posted November 27, 2003 I was talking about resistance of the COILS and the later models have a camshaft Position sensor, but the earlier models do not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrandPrix34 Posted November 27, 2003 Author Report Share Posted November 27, 2003 hey joeyB is there any way to check the ICM once its out of the car? I got mines out 2day and have it hear along wit the coils...AutoZone is closed till 10am 2morrow so i got a whole 8 hours of nothing (sleeps' overated anywayz) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quaddriver Posted November 28, 2003 Report Share Posted November 28, 2003 If you have the crank sensor that is low on the block, in the middle of the motor, on the back, then it removes with one 10mm bolt and a bit of ingenuity - its EASY to snap off the case. dunno what you mean by 3x or 24x, the crank itself has 6 evenly spaced grooves cut in it and 1 more groove before the #1 groove for the sync pulse. You can test the sensor by finding the 2 prong plug from the sensor, where it runs under the motor by the passenger side motor mount and then into the dis. set a dvom on AC and give it a crank, you should see almost 5v spikes if it is working. (these items dont typically fail tho) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slade901 Posted November 28, 2003 Report Share Posted November 28, 2003 CPS do get bombarded with metal filings because it is a magnet and it attracts metals. You might get the right reading using digital multimeter but that reading is not accurate. Only the Digital Oscilloscope can exactly pinpoint the reading based on time frame reference. However, you might be able to fix the CPS by removing it and cleaning it out of metal fillings but most of the time the CPS breaks into pieces before you could clean it. There is one program available in the internet for free. It is called oscilloscope and it uses your audio card for input of your signal to be analyzed. I'll post my results if it does work since I'm suspecting my CPS is causing problem on my car. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AWeb80 Posted November 28, 2003 Report Share Posted November 28, 2003 when testing the CPS, when i unhook the wire from the coilpacks, do i test the CPS end or the coilpack end? Cause if i test the CPS end, how would it be getting power in order to read voltage on it........I am checking for voltage right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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