Ultimate W-body Drivetrain Discussion Thread.

['93RegalGS3800]

Anything goes here. Dosen't matter how crazy or rediculious it is. I just want to know what everybody thinks would bring the W-body alive.

[jake91]

Ls9 rwd swap !!!!

 

Hey you said crazy

[RobertISaar]

Suzuki Cappuccino swap.

[2k2cse]

I'd be happy with a 6 speed, turbo LS4, with awd.

['93RegalGS3800]

RWD and AWD conversions are probably the top mods for these cars. It would be cool to have the engine in the front powering the rear wheels but it would take alot of metal fab work to make it happen. Taking the existing transverse layout and stuffing it in the trunk is more practical but you sacrifice the ease of workabality.

 

There are very few RWD conversions out there due to the constraints of the chassis. There are a few twin engine cars from what I understand. It will take a lot of work to build one but the chassis can be adapted to that easier.

 

I like what has been said so far. Keep it coming guys. If anybody has any input on how one of these mods can effect driving dynamics then lets hear it. I can only think that having all the weight removed from being in front of the front axle will improve the handeling in a positive way.

[RobertISaar]

 

I like what has been said so far.

 

even my sarcastic option?

 

 

 

for an honest response.... would have to know what is meant by ultimate. a W sized/weight car can play many, many roles, from eco-box to a legit grand-touring car.

[Nas Escobar]

The answer to this question is the G body. Had they simply kept the G body and placed our body styles onto the G body this would not be a thing. Imagine a 1992 GTP with the LT1 or a 1990 Regal T Type with twin turbos or maybe a new S type with a supercharged engine...

['93RegalGS3800]

even my sarcastic option?

 

 

 

for an honest response.... would have to know what is meant by ultimate. a W sized/weight car can play many, many roles, from eco-box to a legit grand-touring car.

 

Sacrasam or not it's still an opinion.

 

The beauty of the W-body chassis is in fact the many roles it has played from the factory. It was featured as a sedan, coupe, and convertable with diffrent seating options in the early cars and had a viraty of engines installed. The aftermarket or custom fabricator could work a number on a chassis and make it a nice street car or dedicated track car.

 

I have no clear definition of ultimate here. It's whatever you think would benifit the chassis the most for what you want to use it for.

[Turbocharged400sbc]

twin drivetrains still sticks you with shitty McPherson suspension, and you don't wanna go down the billet brick road like we have....

 

id straight up find a Catera with the blown motor for 1k, turbo 3800 and manual trans with rwd

mini german made GTO...damn near a commodore

 

though id put the opel frontend on it....fuck the caddy nose

[RobertISaar]

to me.... the best set of compromises in a vehicle is a GT. going off of the Wikipedia description ALMOST describes an early W-body even.

 

in any case, FWD would not be kept.... would have to be RWD, rear-biased AWD or go full banana and copy the 911 and go mid/rear engine, maybe even AWD at that.

 

it can't have a glorified tractor engine, it needs to have something that would really wail.... or sing, depending on how you want to look at it. this rules out pretty much anything outside of 10/12/more cylinder count engines with very few exceptions. I can't quite decide between a few engines, so i'll give an option for a few configurations:

V10: BMW S85 or VAG 5.2 V10: some fantastic sounding and performing engines, and neither were limited to some single-purpose hypercar platform either.

 

V12: so many good choices here, starting in the late 80s/early 90s, some ridiculous engines have come forth. not getting into supercar categories is difficult though, BMW and Mercedes(and to some degree, BMW and Mercedes-based V12s) are the only two I can consider for non-supercar applications. VAG has produced a few interesting W12s as well.

 

Pistonless: yep, Wankel engines could be a good fit here, but they would need to be a bit out of the norm for Wankels. think 3/4 rotor varieties to try and make up for the lack of low-RPM grunt. or maybe a roots-blown rotary is what the world needs?

[rich_e777]

I want the gravity neutral tech out of Luke Skywalker`s land speeder from the first Star Wars movie in a 1st gen W-body coupe or vert.

 

Or go the safe route and spend the money on proven mods, optional equipment and swaps and just do a good job repairing and erasing what time has done to the car and let what is be is, then enjoy the hell out of it. It`ll still be better than a Honda or Toyota

['93RegalGS3800]

to me.... the best set of compromises in a vehicle is a GT. going off of the Wikipedia description ALMOST describes an early W-body even.

 

in any case, FWD would not be kept.... would have to be RWD, rear-biased AWD or go full banana and copy the 911 and go mid/rear engine, maybe even AWD at that.

 

it can't have a glorified tractor engine, it needs to have something that would really wail.... or sing, depending on how you want to look at it. this rules out pretty much anything outside of 10/12/more cylinder count engines with very few exceptions. I can't quite decide between a few engines, so i'll give an option for a few configurations:

 

V10: BMW S85 or VAG 5.2 V10: some fantastic sounding and performing engines, and neither were limited to some single-purpose hypercar platform either.

 

V12: so many good choices here, starting in the late 80s/early 90s, some ridiculous engines have come forth. not getting into supercar categories is difficult though, BMW and Mercedes(and to some degree, BMW and Mercedes-based V12s) are the only two I can consider for non-supercar applications. VAG has produced a few interesting W12s as well.

 

Pistonless: yep, Wankel engines could be a good fit here, but they would need to be a bit out of the norm for Wankels. think 3/4 rotor varieties to try and make up for the lack of low-RPM grunt. or maybe a roots-blown rotary is what the world needs?

 

This is some crazy stuff and I like it. I always thought the 3800 would be the best all around engine for a perfromance W-body. If you wanna really get crazy with it then I can see a Porsche drivetrain swap being ideal to get the RWD conversion we all want.

 

twin drivetrains still sticks you with shitty McPherson suspension, and you don't wanna go down the billet brick road like we have....

 

id straight up find a Catera with the blown motor for 1k, turbo 3800 and manual trans with rwd

mini german made GTO...damn near a commodore

 

though id put the opel frontend on it....fuck the caddy nose

 

Exlpain to me more at to why the McPherson suspension system is crappy. Plenty of cars use it but is it not the best setup for a good performing car?

 

I want the gravity neutral tech out of Luke Skywalker`s land speeder from the first Star Wars movie in a 1st gen W-body coupe or vert.

 

Or go the safe route and spend the money on proven mods, optional equipment and swaps and just do a good job repairing and erasing what time has done to the car and let what is be is, then enjoy the hell out of it. It`ll still be better than a Honda or Toyota

 

A gen 1 Cutlass Supreme or a widebody Gran Prix would look amazing with an antigravity drivetrain.

 

I can see you are the first to comment with a more realistic view. I think a mildly built W could put a smile on my face. I can agree that any W is better than a comparative Honda Accord or Toyota of the era. Gm has a thing for interchangability between diffrent cars and there is more of a performance market out there for these cars. Especially the 3800 and LS4 cars.

 

This also kinda brings up the question of how do you optomise a FWD chassis. I think one of the biggest things that holds back a FWD chassis is all the weight being at the front of the car. Not to mention the torque steer you get with performnace orented builds.

 

These comments sarcastic, funny, crazy, or realistic are good. They show what we really want from a car. Seems like there isn't much excitement with newer cars built for the masses. All that developement is going to silly computer systems. I honestly don't think many concumers think about enjoying the ride anymore these days and see driving as more of a chore.

[oldmangrimes]

I'd love to have a Volt drivetrain in my 'vert.   My dream has always been to have an electric convertible, for (mostly) silent cruising through the forests on the rural Oregon roads that I love to drive.   Without the engine sounds, I'd be better able to hear the roar of the waterfalls, the crashing of the ocean waves, the cries of the birds, the wind in the canopy of trees overhead.   I think I'd see more wildlife without the engine sounds, although I'd have to be more careful about not hitting deer in the road.   

I really want to keep my convertible forever, and after the 3100 dies (which may take a while, it's only got 194k on it) I'd love to put a Voltec drivetrain in it.    I need the range extender, because many of the places I like to drive require a few hundred miles of driving in a day.    Although by the time my 3100 dies at 300k or so, battery technology will have improved enough that I can just put in an all-electric drivetrain.   I think 300hp and 400 lb-ft of torque should be enough . . . 

['93RegalGS3800]

I'd love to have a Volt drivetrain in my 'vert.   My dream has always been to have an electric convertible, for (mostly) silent cruising through the forests on the rural Oregon roads that I love to drive.   Without the engine sounds, I'd be better able to hear the roar of the waterfalls, the crashing of the ocean waves, the cries of the birds, the wind in the canopy of trees overhead.   I think I'd see more wildlife without the engine sounds, although I'd have to be more careful about not hitting deer in the road.   

I really want to keep my convertible forever, and after the 3100 dies (which may take a while, it's only got 194k on it) I'd love to put a Voltec drivetrain in it.    I need the range extender, because many of the places I like to drive require a few hundred miles of driving in a day.    Although by the time my 3100 dies at 300k or so, battery technology will have improved enough that I can just put in an all-electric drivetrain.   I think 300hp and 400 lb-ft of torque should be enough . . . 

 

This is something new I don't think I have read on here yet. I like the way you describe the experience of the drive and focous on what more you could see with a quieter car.

 

I've never been much of a fan of electric cars but this sounds glorius. It's more than the classic argument of zero polution. Maybe I should shift my thoughts about the electric car.

 

I'll always believe the ICE engine will have it's place for the time being. The sounds you get with bigger ICE engines are something I don't think I will want to give up in my lifetime. The scream of a 3800 (with factory exhaust) and roar of the V8 are sounds I love too much.

[RobertISaar]

back in the world of realism, there is some hope for mild hybridization of FWD vehicles already... fairly simple at that. there have been a couple of conversions done that involve modifying the hub and turning it into a hub-motor, essentially delivering power to the rear wheels while the engine takes care of the front.

 

it would be a neat way of ending up with a hybrid AWD W.

[Mach 5]

Ill stick with the Mach 5 89 tgp se with a getrag 282 and 336hp/ 442tq and the Racer X 90 tgp Getrag 284 ep lsd, tilton twin disc est 650-700hp when complete... or maybe like a guy I run in to when im at sk speed who had a lumina z34 the had a twin turbo big block with a s10 blazer frame welded in it to make It rwd.. he used to street race it back in the day.. I forgot the guys name but sick dude.

 

-Jarek

[Mach 5]

I think someone used an f body frame or something as well... with a northstar

[rich_e777]

A gen 1 Cutlass Supreme or a widebody Gran Prix would look amazing with an antigravity drivetrain.

 

I can see you are the first to comment with a more realistic view. I think a mildly built W could put a smile on my face. I can agree that any W is better than a comparative Honda Accord or Toyota of the era. Gm has a thing for interchangability between diffrent cars and there is more of a performance market out there for these cars. Especially the 3800 and LS4 cars.

 

This also kinda brings up the question of how do you optomise a FWD chassis. I think one of the biggest things that holds back a FWD chassis is all the weight being at the front of the car. Not to mention the torque steer you get with performnace orented builds.

 

These comments sarcastic, funny, crazy, or realistic are good. They show what we really want from a car. Seems like there isn't much excitement with newer cars built for the masses. All that developement is going to silly computer systems. I honestly don't think many concumers think about enjoying the ride anymore these days and see driving as more of a chore.

 

 

It all depends on what you want to do and how you want to drive, at this point I want mine to last rather than be fast and remain easily maintainable. A "special edition that could have been" approach with most model options from the lifespan of the CS and personalized customizations. That might mean upgrading it with a new engine and transmission to ensure accessibility to parts in the distant future. I don't see the 4T60E being short of parts anytime soon but my engine/trans and OBD system is from that transition phase, well worn, and could use about 30-40 more hp which isn't realistic with the current engine. I have my hands full just maintaining and repairing my cars and with a lot of other non-auto things demanding my time I cannot spare much building up and developing a supremely awesome beast like a few of the members have.

[vipmiller803]

back in the world of realism, there is some hope for mild hybridization of FWD vehicles already... fairly simple at that. there have been a couple of conversions done that involve modifying the hub and turning it into a hub-motor, essentially delivering power to the rear wheels while the engine takes care of the front.

 

it would be a neat way of ending up with a hybrid AWD W.

I thought audi was doing something like this with a concept crossover TT. Electric rear, hybrid front, totaling good power and 4wd with no driveshaft.

[RobertISaar]

likely a much more sophisticated installation than the ones I've seen.... I want to say something like 15-20HP hub motors, nothing too exciting, but it is power to the rear, enough to keep the car at-speed in most conditions without the assistance of the engine.

['93RegalGS3800]

It probably would be easier to mimic a RWD drivetrain in one of these cars with a good electric setup. Batteries up front and motors in the back.

 

With an ICE setup you have a lot of chassis work to tackle if you wanna prefrom a RWD conversion.

 

I don't know what kind of motors you would need and if they would fit under the rear of the car easily.

 

I'll applaud the first person that does this and adds a "ludricous" mode. An electric W-body with a sub 3 second 0-60 would be impressive.

[RobertISaar]

the guy who made an all-electric fiero would be a good person to copy then..... that thing is a beast.

['93RegalGS3800]

Anybody gave a hydrogen fuel system a thought? Wonder what it would take to get a recirculating hydrogen system to fit in the chassis. Most hydrogen vehicles have a dedicated chassis for all that equipment.

[Imp558]

A stanley steamer engine with a tranny from a Semi that has enough gears to get it over 25 MPH

[Turbocharged400sbc]

_{id like to drive a train through a W-body}

 

 

 

_lol

 

_{McPherson is a shitty compromise. we're doing a clean sheet chassis and are not able to make the McPherson stuff work so we are going with u/l a arms for a vastly superior geometry and fitment. yeah its gonna be tight as hell with the conventional coilovers and billet knuckles while trying to get as much steering angle as we can with the 16" rims and 12" rotor caliper position.}

 

_{but with clean sheet knuckles I can let us use the F body calipers with the 11" rotors with 15" rims while allowing em to tuck in far. the goal is to try and shove 28x 16x15 slicks in back with 28x10x15 (at least....I hope) up front}

_{id love to tuck 12" rims and still have 10-15* turning.}

 

_{with the 16x8 crosslaces up front and 8-9" wide tires we should have no problem driving it on the street}

 

_{its not easy to shove anything wider than the 10" rims and tires on the gm struts, not without massively changing the scrub radius}

 

_{its also far easier to get anti dive geometry up front and anti squat out back.}

 

_{plus there's the whole seal wiping issue of high hp cars and side loading on the strut tube/piston rod and seals.}

 

_{we now get to sell a buncha brand new "baller" gm w body suspension stuff, monoball pins for roll center correction as well as for steering.}

 

_{it was just too many compromises...and not enough suspension compression, nothing in double shear, etc.}

 

_{its over-engineered to a T but we've been screwing with it for 14 years so we know exactly what we want lol}