Getrag 284 Serviceability

[Go4DaMo]

Let's address the elephant in the room here for some of us die-hard 5-speed lovers. The 284 is extinct. I feel it's appropriate to have a thread dedicated to options we owners have in servicing the transmissions.

 

I'm currently experiencing an input shaft seal leak that's causing my clutch to slip more every day. I'm vigorously searching for a solution to this.

 

Side note:

Here's what I've found for the **output** shaft seal w/my application, a 92 Lumina:

GM Part #: 14092900

Status - Discontinued. No NOS in inventory nationwide.

Cross-referencing this part number through Timken's downloadable PDF yielded a replacement part, 2003N, which is available at AutoZone.

 

Also, the forum member with the 284 2nd gen gold Impala mentioned on his Instagram possibly having his 284 machined to accept an off-the-shelf input shaft seal. I haven't heard back from him to confirm if that's the route he took.

 

Who knows what about axle seal replacement with this trans? I've been told they're available & told they can't be found.

 

Thanks, everyone.  As the old dogs say at the track:

"If you ain't got a clutch, you ain't got much!"

Edited November 25 by Go4DaMo
Timken cross-refernce is an OUTPUT shaft seal

[carkhz316]

Your part number for the input shaft seal is the same as what I came up with through the local parts store and Rock Auto. The left side axle seal is still available (can't remember part number off hand), as I've replaced it already on both of my 284's. The passenger side is slightly different and I haven't found any part numbers, though it looks to be a simple design that could be matched up by dimensions alone. Really only need a I.D and O.D. as it just has to seal the I-shaft tube and the axle itself. Let me know what you come up with on the input shaft seal replacement. 

[Mach 5]

the main issue is the sleeve cracking and wearing and the seal tearing. the seal is moulded in to the housing itself. Im hoping by next year either myself or Jay, somebody, maybe Rodney Dickman?? can come up with a solution. Even if just the bearing is used and something is just matched up for the seal and make the tube out of stainless like RD has been doing would be awesome. I need to fix this myself there is nothing stronger than a 284 trans. I snapped the crank before the trans only issue has been that pesky leaking seal. I will keep you informed if a solution arises. That 2003n is the correct number. also I believe Timken 3543 is a common part for that axle seal

 

Jarek

RRRM

[19Cutlass94]

I have a brand new input shaft seal sitting about 2 feet from me. The issue I've found with the seal leaking, is that it's not actually the seal... There is a small o-ring on the outside where tapers. This o-ring becomes hard and brittle. Then it no longer seals. If you want the cheap option, go to the auto store, have them match you up an o-ring, and put a little RTV around it when you install it. If you want the expensive option, you can buy the seal from me for $300 since that's what it costs me.

 

But when you split the case, and pound the seal out, see if that inner seal is still good or not. I'm sure it will be. Then just do like I mentioned above.

 

 

The biggest issue with these transmissions is the synchros. That and finding someone to put new ones in haha.

[carkhz316]

So you have split the case to service them to some degree? Care to share your experience? I was under the impression from some blurb on the web that you needed special tools/ jigs to reassemble parts of this beast. Also, where/ how/ why was the seal $300? I'm guessing some NOS on some dealer's parts room?

[19Cutlass94]

You have to split the case to do anything short of changing the output shaft seals. Its really easy, just make sure you deal with the detent system correctly. You do need special tools, or some sort of tools to change the gears, synchros, etc. But to change the input shaft seal, you just need to split the case and deal with the detent system. 

 

And the seal I have costs that much because its a Getrag seal. I don't see 98% of people with 284's paying $300 for a seal. That's why I told him to check that o-ring. That's the cause of the leaking hes  having. I'd be VERY surprised if it was the actual seal that went bad.

[White93z34]

FYI Timkin 2003N is a output shaft seal, not input shaft seal.

[White93z34]

Jay, care to share any pictures?

 

Jarek, do you have a picture of the input shaft seal assembly out of the car?

 

I'd think we have enough people here who are machinists/know machinists that a similar solution to the 282 could be made for the 284 

 

Looking at how a 282 is serviced here may provide insight into the 284, It seems the bearing IS the seal.

 

As someone presently running a 284 of unknown history, I'd like to be able to service it.

[Mach 5]

the input shaft seal cannot be serviced separately. The major issue with them isnt always the seal leaking but moreso the sleeve itself cracks. I have a couple that have done so. Synchros are a pita and we need to find a supplier soon

[19Cutlass94]

I can post a step by step on how to split the case on a 284. It's pretty easy. 

 

I would like to atleast get the tools or know what kind of tools I need to service this trans. That way I can compare synchros to some I found that just might work. But I really need synchros from the 284 to compare.

[carkhz316]

Yes, please do. I would like to see the guts of one of these

[19Cutlass94]

Here's the inside of a 284;

 

 

Diff;

 

 

Where the detent system is;

 

 

Parts of the detent system (I'm missing a few parts)

 

 

The guts of the input shaft seal;

 

 

 

Sent from my iPhone

[19Cutlass94]

Here's some good info on the detent system. Shows a 282, but it's the same thing between the 282 and 284

 

http://www.rodneydickman.com/n36.html

 

http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum9/HTML/000008.html

[Mach 5]

like button don't work... I like this^^

[19Cutlass94]

That trans was the one that was grinding 2nd gear. So I'm guessing that synchro is gone. Kinda why I've been tearing into it. Not to mention I lost some detent parts so its no good anyways.

 

One of these days I'm gonna try and press out the shafts and see what I have to work with.

[GP1138]

OK 284 experts -- going to attempt to swap a good transmission into my '91 in the next couple weeks. Here is a parts list I've put together on RockAuto -- anything else I might need? I've got everything else, and I plan on lifting the body and dropping the cradle down, I think... unless I can get ahold of an engine hoist.

[19Cutlass94]

That clutch kit should come with a T/O bearing. Also, the output shaft seal should be a 2003N. Don't know where that part number came from. Also, just an FYI, match up those flywheels before you install the new one. I've had issues with them having the wrong number of teeth. Then you gotta pull everything back apart to change it out. What type of transmission fluid are you using? 

[GP1138]

Ah, yes. I figured Synchromesh -- forgive my noobishness.

[GP1138]

OK, killed the T/O bearing and switched the seals to the P/N you mentioned. How many quarts of Syncromesh? I'll do a search as well...

[RobertISaar]

GM says 4.2 pints.

[19Cutlass94]

which is about 2.1qts. I just use 2qts. GM synchromesh.

[19Cutlass94]

oh, and I'm gonna have to buy some bigger pressed to get these gears out. Messed around with it today for a little bit. Got one that's completely destroyed. 

[carkhz316]

WTF? Is that the correct throwout bearing for a 284? I searched high and low and could not get one for the life of me, separate from clutch kit. I called Spec, Exedy, etc. They all told me NO! Eventually, I got a hold of Kuntzie and he hooked me up with one.

 

Can anyone tell me if that TOB will work? GP1138, how did you find that/ know that it's the correct TOB?

 

19Cutlass94, thanks for the teardown. Makes me really want to dig into my noisy spare to see what's up. I can live with a noisy 4th synchro, but the input shaft bearing (noise would go away when you pushed in the clutch) sounded like a rock crusher.

[19Cutlass94]

You can find them separate, just depends on how deep your pockets are. But the 284 uses a pull type clutch. The T/O bearing snaps into the pressure plate then the fingers on the bearing slide into the clutch fork. You can find them but most are not cheap. Post a pic of the one you have.

 

And that noise you have is not you input shaft bearing. It's the T/O bearing. Common problem with the 284's is a noisy T/O bearing.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone

[carkhz316]

You can find them separate, just depends on how deep your pockets are. But the 284 uses a pull type clutch. The T/O bearing snaps into the pressure plate then the fingers on the bearing slide into the clutch fork. You can find them but most are not cheap. Post a pic of the one you have.

 

And that noise you have is not you input shaft bearing. It's the T/O bearing. Common problem with the 284's is a noisy T/O bearing.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone

Ya, I think I remember finding one on a GM parts overstock site, but the TOB was something north of $200 IIRC.

 

Regarding my TOB, it's not that that was making noise. My first 284 sounded like that with the BRAND NEW Spec clutch and new TOB. The noise sounded like rocks inside the transmission while sitting idling. The noise would near instantly go away upon pushing the clutch in. I swapped the same TOB and Spec clutch into my 2nd 284, and the trans is silent. I do occasionally get a light tapping at idle if the clutch is let out abruptly, but it goes away if you gently release the clutch. It's almost as if the TOB or fork isn't "centered" upon release of the clutch if you snap the pedal out to fast.