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Led OnBoard Conversion for Dash Cluster-Looking for Info


Michael Savage

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Grabbed a 2nd Dash Cluster and wanting to replace all the bulbs with Saudered on LEDs with Resistors between the + connection and the bulbs since they run about 3v vs 12-14v the car sends to the stock bulbs. Looking for a diagram of the board to find out which leads at positive and negative

 

 

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Makes no sense. Why not just buy 12v LED bulbs? I've installed them in a number of clusters.

 

I think what he's trying to do is keep the dimmer working with the LEDs, but even then, they sell LEDs that can keep function of the dimmer. Also, 1st gen and 1.5 gens didn't have the bulbs soldered...at least to my knowledge. I know GM started doing that crap in 2000 with the Cavalier but I don't think the 1.5s were soldered. All you have to do is pull the bulb out the wedges and trial and error since LEDs are polarized and incandescents are not.

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Oh I'm making my own so I know the resistance is correct so the bulbs don't burn up and to keep the dimmer working, costing me about $8. I was planning on saudering them, but now that I've looked at the caps the normal bulbs go in I've changed my mind on the part.

 

Looking for a diagram of the board that shows the positive and negative sides of the terminals for the bulbs

(so I don't have to turn 30 bulbs multiple times, and since I can't make all the bulbs illuminate without there actually being a problem)

 

 

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i went the DIY route, but I didn't specifically mark any of the pads, I just used my multimeter to find out which pads did what and soldered with that information fresh in mind.

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I'll look into it with my multimeter tomorrow night(mostly a late night project when I get bored) I appreciate that, I forgot all the time how useful that meter is lol, but I'll mark mine with a red dot and take a picture to show people whenever I get it done, still waiting on the bulbs to come in, can't decide what color I want the gauges , Red or Blue lol big decision. Might just make both and try both out.

 

 

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you won't make the gauges red.... you would need to pull the color filter out of the stack to do so. I found 3 colors to work acceptably(green, white, blue) and posted samples at some point.....

 

http://www.w-body.com/showthread.php/45930-WHATEVER!-v2-0?p=1218797&viewfull=1#post1218797

 

I thought it was a gel that was applied to the cluster in the back that had to be sanded off.

 

BTW I did try the red LED on my Cutty cluster which has that blue color gel in the gauges and it does work, it just doesn't look like Pontiac's red, but it is still a distinguishable red.

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going off of memory, with the 1.5 clusters, you have the clear plastic layer, then multiple sheets stacked on top of it. if you were to separate the plastic grid from the stack, you still don't have access to the color layer, the stack would need disassembled, which will almost certainly destroy it.

 

I haven't had an early analog CS cluster in my hands to take apart to compare it. the blue/green filter in the 1.5 clusters doesn't like to pass red light from my testing, if it did pass any, it was likely a small amount or just a hideous color(or both) and I quit pursuing it.

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Discostudd: bbengineer is a good suggestion but is for 2000+ I have the 95-99 one.

 

The 95-99 from looking at it needs to be heated then the front black pealed off gently to get to it, but I agree that's too much trouble, be cool to have read but doesn't look promising, behind the black layer is the color layer and holding it too the light has a blue hue too the numbers, oh well.

 

Robert: refresh me on checking the positive and negative side of the terminals with the multimeter I haven't used it in forever.

 

 

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depending on your meter, if it has a continuity function(beeps when the leads are touched together), that helps, otherwise you need to run the multimeter in the resistance measurement portion, if it's auto-ranging, you'll only have one setting, if it isn't, then choose the lowest range.

 

then you get to probe around the pads and see which ones have a constant ground connection and which ones have a constant +12V connection with something either on the cluster or externally switching the other necessary connection when appropriate. I don't think any of the bulbs have both switched, that would be unnecessary.

 

alternatively..... you could follow the ground pins starting at the 32 pin connector and with a fine-tipped black marker, basically trace all of the locations it goes to. that won't give the pad identications of all of them, but it helps.

 

more alternatively..... this may be of use to you. this is the pinout(and a couple of notes) I've generated of the 95 MC cluster, I don't remember if you swapped years or what, but this definitely applies to 95 and 96 cars, at a minimum, possibly 97, but 98-99 would be slightly different. http://i.imgur.com/M88knoA.png

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I still have my 95 didn't swap to the Cutlass its a 95 too, haven't had the time with moving and such. But I'll look into that tomorrow if I have time I appreciate the pin out though and the multimeter help, LEDs come in Tuesday and getting excited!

 

 

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4ced1a5368ac0856d622df9d28c14dac.jpg

8eb2225b568a3ad8b4c96b9d0b3de689.jpg

7f9accb2b9c9e43473c6fb00a5b95426.jpg

That one light is the one that tells you your gauge is at 260 but I can't follow the current well because it runs through that big cluster of sauder points at the top right lol but I'm guessing the bottom side of the connector is the ground based on the other sensors, but I could be wrong.

Said I would post pictures of the points so here it is! Thanks to Roberts pinout.

 

 

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Well, bulbs came in and guess what, the Crazy Asians who put them together put the resistor on the ground wire instead of the hot wire so now I was to unsauder and resauder all the wires lol just my luck

 

 

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there isn't anything inherently wrong with doing that.... the circuit operates the same, but there is a longer run of an "unlimited" current source that would become very problematic if shorted to ground. potting compound, epoxy, liquid electrical tape or even hot glue is enough to prevent that from being an issue.

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The part I figured would be the problem is the LEDs they use are rated at 3v but with the resistor on the power wire makes them be able to handle the 14v car voltage by minimizing the load of voltage getting to the LED to keep it from burning up quick, with the resistor after the bulb in the ground wouldn't that be depremental and keep a back feed even higher that 14v in the bulb making it quickly burn up?

 

 

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LEDs don't function that way.... without a resistor, as soon you pass their forward voltage threshold, they'll try to conduct a more or less unlimited amount of current, which is why the resistor is there. without it, they would be destroyed instantly if you were to apply 14V to a LED with a 3V forward voltage rating. even 3.1 volts with no resistor MAY be enough to cause the LED to have a significantly shorter life than expected.

 

typical LEDs run somewhere in the 20mA range safely, though certain designs may be limited to 5mA, or something insane like 1 amp. depends on the exact line of LEDs. if you wanted to manually calculate the resistor you would need, take the highest voltage your system will see(around 14.4 volts), subtract the forward voltage of the LED(so 14.4-3=11.4), then take the new voltage number and divide it by current(.02 amps, since we're converting mA to A), 11.4/.02= 570 ohm resistor to allow it to run at 20mA while feeding it 14.4V. if you're sitting at battery voltage(around 12.6), then you can run some of the same calculations again with a twist to find out current consumption under a different voltage(12.6-3=9.6 volts, 9.6 volts through a 570 ohm load is .0168 amps).

 

so, with a 570 ohm resistor, your LED will operate between 16.8 and 20mA, depending on how loaded your electrical system is.

 

below the LED forward voltage threshold, they don't conduct any current(or, at least a very, very small leakage current), above it they're nearly infinite(until they burn out almost instantly), you use the resistor to keep the current allowed under control. it doesn't matter which side the resistor is on, since it does the same job in either position.

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Oh okay, I was worried from what I read(should have read it again without beer) if the resistors on the ground it would cause a capacitor style effect in the bulb and burn it up. So the resistor on either side limits the overall voltage once the current hits the resistor no matter where it is basically. Gotcha. That makes it easy again I'll mess with it tomorrow.

 

 

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Got 5 test bulbs in my cluster today gonna check how they look when it gets dark, hoping they're bright enough for the meters and not just the warning lights, if not I guess I'll order some 10mms for the meters, but 4x as bright turn signal and seat belt light so far.

 

 

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