19Cutlass94 Posted April 10, 2015 Report Share Posted April 10, 2015 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Savage Posted April 11, 2015 Author Report Share Posted April 11, 2015 Cranked up our part car on fumes yesterday. It doesn't have strut towers or wheels anymore from parting out the body, 98 Monte Carlo 3100. Took the Brake Booster line off and plugged it into the top of a coffee can with a tube ran to the bottom to bubble, before I unplugged the fuel relay and cranked it and let the fuel empty out of the lines. Put 1/8 of the cans size in Gas in it and it cranked rite up and I dumped it out after seeing it run good, put same amount in of 91% Isopropyl Alcohol in the can and it cranked rite up and ran better and the intake and sensors read engine temp of 50-90*F and let it run on its own for an hour just idling since it doesn't have wheel or strut towers, and temps never got over 90 and ran that long fine on about 4 ounces of alcohol in the bottom of the can. Alcohol seems to make it run better than the gas, but you need to figure out a seperate Butterfly valve or valves to the gas pedal to adjust the A/F ratio while you accelerate and you need a heating element so you need to make a metal can you can keep heated to 60-90 as you accelerate the gas chills from the air flow and won't evaporate and it stalls out. Still a big work in progress to drive down the highway and to make a adapter plate for the throttle body or a Y adapter on the Brake Booster line to make it work good. Also haven't seen any productive comments yet from glancing past them so just ignoring those. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Savage Posted April 11, 2015 Author Report Share Posted April 11, 2015 To George, reason I said what I did is to people's comments previously about it not being able to work and just saying if it could be done it would be, if you look it up the first Vapor system was designed in 1927 as a custom carb and there's been plenty over the years and several people have setups, plenty of videos on YouTube too. I'm using this post mostly to document my findings for other people to help them out instead of telling them hey it works or doesn't work and here's 50 websites with different variations with different setups and different down sides and better sides everything else, I'm documenting the best ways to do it per application and first were starting off with lawn mowers and that part car, but I don't want people to comment with unconstructive criticism because it takes away from this blog completely and requires People to read alot of BS to even read the tests we end up running. also unplugged the fuel lines in general on the car to dry out the tank on it to put it up for my car in the future if I need it. So fuel systems not even on the car just ran it dry in the fuel lines to make sure it was cleared out too because I plan on parting this car out good, and the gas tanks empty and been airing out for weeks, my dad and cousin who run the shop were amazed it was Running good and true and cold, and the exhaust was cool to the touch and just smelled like the other air not odors or anything. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Savage Posted April 11, 2015 Author Report Share Posted April 11, 2015 Pitzel Thanks for that info and I'll look into it and see if it's similar and could help with these Vapor designs it's really weird watching and listening to it work, but it's cool watching it run with dry fuel lines now, and 4 ounces of alcohol evaporating running for am hour idle varried from 1700-2100. But it's really cool, we're gonna make some auto flow setups to keep the current amount of fuel that's gonna get evaporated to keep the A/F constant after we get stuff built we will post more. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Savage Posted April 11, 2015 Author Report Share Posted April 11, 2015 Me and my dad and cousin are looking into different designs too, there's a float mechanism that attaches to the container on some people's setups taped into the fuel lines of the car and auto fills the tank with gas as it evaporates from the main tank, been looking at alot trying to do it better, just rite now we're watching alot of videos and reading alot of Web pages figuring out the design we need to make it work better when we initially start with as a good one we can control better Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Savage Posted April 13, 2015 Author Report Share Posted April 13, 2015 New thing I'm messing with, how much will the stock Computer lean the A/F ratio trying a direct Vapor injection on the PCV for a Vacuum fed system mounted on the radiator too keep heated properly. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Savage Posted April 13, 2015 Author Report Share Posted April 13, 2015 Trying to see if the system can lean out to use just enough Gasoline to keep the A/F ratio proper. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrett Powered Posted April 13, 2015 Report Share Posted April 13, 2015 you are a fucking Savage man lol, I am sure you are getting a lot of work done with your setup. what injector duty cycle allows for this vapor to be injected for hours of good work to win big business deals and get that pretty chick? I am sure you got dyno pulls, datalogs and vids to share. right? we can't wait Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Savage Posted April 13, 2015 Author Report Share Posted April 13, 2015 Actually haven't got s*%# worth running yet, mostly working with different setups online I've found seeing which ones work the best. Don't want to post vids of what doesn't work well enough to drive on, so far the Methanol Injection system is helping with some ideas to play with(those are readily available) looking at that concept for just the gases off of it not the liquid, but what I'm wanting to try rite now is running it through a Vacuum line with Mesh to keep Flames from backing into the container and blowing up. Rite now it's trail and error and testing what works and doesn't work and wasting alot of coffee cans. The Vacuum fed design I'm looking at over the next couple days could be a keeper, but I have no idea how it's gonna run, unplugging the pvc valve and running the hose from the intake to the top of a mason jar, and the pvc with hose that runs to the bottom of the jar to bubble to help create the gases running Isopropyl. Mostly just trying to figure out what does and doesn't work to find the best way to setup this system better in the future as we learn more about it. Found a guy tonight who uses a Fog machine with Isopropyl, ethanol, or Methanol (depending what he has at the time) that he has routed into his airbox inlet. Finding alot of variations, but I see alot of people running them and having slight issues and running them through vacuum lines and creating vacuum leaks by just T'ing off from it so just looking at different ways and different setups to find the best ones and make 1 good one and a future tutorial. It's similar to old school steam engines. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Savage Posted April 13, 2015 Author Report Share Posted April 13, 2015 But yeah the setup is similar to Methanol Injection but instead of Liquid using just Vapor so like a Methanol Steam System or in this case Isopropyl Steam System or really any Flammable Evaporative Liquid one guy who has a nice system whose trying to get funding for Mass Production actually personally runs Colman Latern Fluid Vapors. It's alot to mess with, but it's worth it in the end if it can help alot of people, I mean once we figure out how to make them work and run engines rite with what it actually takes to make it work should cost the average Joe $20-100 to make their own setup for almost any application, and if it works as well as people say we could all save alot of money, and that's why I posted it on here for people's help on different ideas and info like with the stock Injectors and computer, how much will the computer actually lean the car out so you could continue running Liquid with the Vapor to keep a proper A/F ratio that's a question I'm looking at so if the Vacuum fed setup works I'll know if the car will lean itself out enough to run rite or just tell the car to dump gas. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrett Powered Posted April 13, 2015 Report Share Posted April 13, 2015 yup u just got to see what it takes to get the afr you need to run the car then datalog that so you have a base line to go off Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrett Powered Posted April 13, 2015 Report Share Posted April 13, 2015 I would think you would not run a stock calibration to achieve the work you need done. HP/ tq levels Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Savage Posted April 13, 2015 Author Report Share Posted April 13, 2015 Yeah Is the next thing I'm trying and having it wedged near a Coolant line to keep it from super cooling inside the Vacuum. It's interesting though, and yeah that's all the work I have well later on after lots of testing, and I mean really if I lose or gain HP/Tq that's fine lose is fine and raise is fine I'm mostly looking for a way to save gas mileage and improve efficiency. Testing we've seen alot of power lose, but haven't had 1 setup that was sealed and setup controlled. I'm just really inticed by this and it's gonna be fun testing it all, this is mostly my trial and error Blog to inform people what's working and what's not so people trying to do it don't end up wasting time like me, I mean it doesn't bother me because it gives me something to do and have a good goal. I drive way too much so gas mileage is what I'm looking at. This setup I'm working on now is heated Vapor PCV vacuum injection no idea how well or bad it'll work but it's interesting. Going to buy a Electronic Fuel Injection Crontroller or Tuner or whatever to adjust the O2 Sensor to tune down the Gasoline in future tests but rite now seeing if it'll even work rite, but so far so good. Finishing up a sealed container for the setup in the picture today setup for permanent usage with different setups so I don't have to waste coffee cans anymore. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Savage Posted April 14, 2015 Author Report Share Posted April 14, 2015 Out of town and just finished my jar, gonna put it between the air box hose and the Wiper Reservoir tomorrow started rating rite before I finished it, sliding a pipe into the PCV and connecting the bubbler hose to it and the Vapor hose to the pipe that goes to the intake when I drop the wife off at the Dentist, just hoping it won't be too much vacuum and suck the liquid up. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Savage Posted April 14, 2015 Author Report Share Posted April 14, 2015 Rating was supposed to be Raining Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mfewtrail Posted April 14, 2015 Report Share Posted April 14, 2015 Two options that will yield better results than what you're trying: A. Learn how to tune ECM's and use a custom tune to gain better fuel mileage. The consequence of this will likely be higher emissions. B. Strip unneccesary weight from the car. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Savage Posted April 14, 2015 Author Report Share Posted April 14, 2015 What I'm looking at is injecting fuems(Vapor[Liquid in Gaseous state]) before it enters the engine Gasoline 1 Gallon is equal to 160 gallons of fuems and can be burned in a similar amount as 1 Gallon due to the short cylinder cycles. Wanting to try alternative fuels to run on they may or may not work better or be cheaper as a Vapor. Main problem is getting the A/F ratio correct which is the fun part. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Savage Posted April 14, 2015 Author Report Share Posted April 14, 2015 The jar being dirty is from running a QT Mile around the block, that's a lot of gunk going in the intake, Jesus that's crazy. Oh and car idles a lot a lot smoother and runs better and much better acceleration. Just put the hose deep enough to bubble the Alcohol to vaporize it and not get liquid injected. Also becomes a PCV filter apparently. Need to get braided hose so it doesn't crunch under the vacuum, that ended up happening when I got back to the house and poped the hood. So back to waiting until I can get better hose. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Savage Posted May 8, 2015 Author Report Share Posted May 8, 2015 Basically this is the test setup(also makes a good PCV Filter) rite now since it can only hold about 2-4 Oz of Isopropyl it only works for about 10-20minutes. Upsides so far, I'm guessing since the vaccum in the jar is so high it's like it strips the Isopropyl CaH8O-Carbon-Hydrogen8-Oxygen directly into Gaseous form and sucks it in directly as those molecules separately. As you push the throttle the liquid turns into a white cloud in the jar that gets thicker and thicker. Which is cool. So far the car feels like it did 75,000 miles ago when I built it, so I'm guessing because of the high combustion due to the Hydrogen it's cleaned out a lot of the carbon and soot build up(gonna pull a plug tomorrow or a day soon) interested to see how clean it looks, but all in all after running about 3hours worth of it on my daily drives this week with the empty jar on it it doesn't even feel the same when you crank the car you can't even tell it's running it idles so smooth and engine temps have been staying a bit lower(no crazy change there just figured worth mentioning) and haven't checked MPG but doubt that would be bout the same since I haven't finished the project and trimed the fuel injected down. Even if this project ends up to be a dead end I did find out a way to clean the miles of soot and carbon build up out without taking the motor apart or using some crazy bottled up goo. Interesting part is considering how clean it's running now I'm wondering if those Methanol Injection systems actually help fuel economy on their own or if it's the fact it cleans the engine. Anyway just an update looking into welding up a big box in the next week or 2 with a bubbler splash guard(so liquid raw fuel doesn't blow up into the lines) Looking forward to these comments and questions because it's been cool running it this week. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Savage Posted May 8, 2015 Author Report Share Posted May 8, 2015 Also excuse the McGyver setup made this setup for $0 so worked with what I had, but 0 leaks Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Savage Posted May 11, 2015 Author Report Share Posted May 11, 2015 Alright got to a stopping point for the Catch Can Vacuum bubbler. Works good but you can't get over 45mph with running just the bubbler, it's just not enough, but running alcohol in it with the gas still hooked up allows for more efficient burn and cleans your valves and cylinders, loving that. Now on its just gonna stay on as an oil catch can, been liking that part with keeping stuff cleaner. Next project I plan on testing is a Ultrasonic Liquid Fogger setup in a can and connected to the oil/water catch tube on the bottom of the Intake Hose(just unclamps on the 95 Monte Carlo) not sure what other vehicles besides the Lumina that applies too. Going to wire it in to run full blast all the time ones I get it in, planning on mounting it to a bracket at the bottom of the can so it can't shift. Based on how well it works I may switch completely over to this. Other people have gotten it to work just not sure how well. So trial and error here we come. Other possible setup run the line from the Catch Can to it and run The Fogger Can to the intake to keep Gas fumes out of the Valve Cover. Yes there's alot I haven't figured out yet, but I don't have the new parts in hand, just switching to the Fogger because I figure it could give a more consistent higher amount of fuel. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schurkey Posted May 27, 2015 Report Share Posted May 27, 2015 I wasn't going to post here any more, but WTF, I saw this and thought of you. http://www.enginelabs.com/news/can-this-device-turn-regular-air-into-nitrous-oxide/ This could be your next project! It's clearly supported and endorsed by Enginelabs, so it MUST be for real! With this and a Brown's Gas generator, and some magnets on the fuel tubing, you could make hundreds of additional horsepower, on hardly any fuel at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Savage Posted May 27, 2015 Author Report Share Posted May 27, 2015 Looks like that works by putting a high electric charge into the air being inducted by adding the extra electrons to the air it could allow for molecules to bond easier so I see where that guy comes from, make a tube with a couple mesh plates seperated slightly and positive current to one and negative on the other but close enough too allow a spark(maybe maybe not maybe just one hooked up with postive on one side and negative on the other) as the air passed through it could charge the air and do like it says, I have a 100 watt amp I could run to it just to see lol but idk if that's how it works, but looking at it seems to be accurate, but if that's actually legit that could be awesome Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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