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3.4 DOHC Lifter Tick


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Posted

Hey, I've got a '91 GTP 3.4 with 220k on it. It has an intermittent lifter tick when hot. All of the lifters clatter for the first 1/2 second before quieting down during a cold start, which is quite common from what I've read (had a 95 Z34 which did the same thing). After 15-20 miles of highway driving, I hear a lifter ticking (on the front band it sounds like) after I slow down and then engine is idling. It will quiet down and then get louder as I drive. If I allow the engine to cool for a bit, it gets over this problem. Any of you guys have this problem? I put a new set of Victor Reinz lifters in this thing to fix this issue, but it didn't change it much. I'm running syn. 10-30. Oil pressure is well within the acceptable range, according to the service manual. Do the oil temperatures get particularly high in this engine?

Posted (edited)

Hmmmmmm,

 

I ask now, it's after the fact, but, is the same lifter location giving you this problem that was occurring before you changed the lifters?, one really needs a stethoscope to accurately locate the lifter in question. 220k is a fair amount of use, I don't put tooooo much faith in the cluster gauge, a mechanical gauge fitted to the sending unit port would give you better idea of what's really happening inside. I really can't say I agree with the clattering situation seeing as I've never encountered that at all with my engine.

 

If this IS a pressure problem (but it's not readily visible) try running a 10-40w synthetic, the great thing about synthetics is that you can run a heavier grade and still get the same flow capabilities that a thinner mineral based oil delivers.

Edited by 55trucker
Posted

Thanks for the reply. I wish mine did not have the clattering lifters upon start-up. Both sets of lifters did it though, and I think there's a TSB on it too. It does seem like the location of the ticking lifter (when hot) did not change between sets of lifters. I put a fresh bottom end in the engine (i.e.stock main and rod bearings, had crank polished; it didn't need turning and oil pump) at 197k, although it didn't need it, so oil pressure should be more than satisfactory. Have not put a mechanical gauge on it though. The timing chain tensioner was the most worn component I saw in the engine. I'll try the 10-40 synthetic. Thanks for the suggestion.

Posted

Ok,

 

now the plot thickens........have you had the oil distribution cover off for any reason? it's below the intake manifold, it's mounted to the top of the block valley area, in there is an anti drain-back valve that prevents oil from draining from the top end of the engine when not running. If it's stuck open that could be the reason for your clattering at start-up.

Posted

Just for shits and giggles I would try a 5w40 SYN in it.

 

Shell Rotella is a good choice.

Posted

if you're going to consider/run a 40 weight synthetic to try and help flow at low temps and pressure at high temps.... might as well go all the way to a 0W-40 and possibly end up with something thinner than a 5W-30 when cold and a 40 weight when warm.

Posted (edited)

If the lifter isn't toast, any friggin' oil that gets inside will keep them quiet...once all the air is purged out of them.

 

Two sets of lifters, same noise? I'd be looking at the cam lobe, and lifter-to-lifter bore clearance. Any unusual wear marks on the top of the old lifters?

 

How about valve stem tip heights? Ideally, they're all the same. Functionally, some minor differences are tolerated by the plunger in the hydraulic lifter assembly.

 

There is a bulletin for lifter tick when cold. Parts are available--sort of--but not from GM. The job is REALLY EASY (if you have the cam carrier off the engine) It'd be something of a pain-in-the-ass "on the car".

http://60degreev6.com/forum/showthread.php/49738-LQ1-Service-Bulletin-57-61-09-Lifter-tick-%28cold%29

The problem is, this bulletin isn't intended to fix the lifter noise when hot, that you have.

 

This is what the lifter looks like when I pulled them apart for cleaning and inspection:

Lumina_Lifter_01.JPG

 

The early 3.4s have an oil-to-water oil cooler immediately behind the oil filter. GM must have figured this engine would be run hard. Later 3.4s don't have the oil cooler. I think the cooler was deleted for the '95 model year.

Edited by Schurkey
Posted

I had a chevy venture 3.4 in the shop and it ticked due to a loose rocker arm. it popped off stripped the head smoked a valve. looked like a botched intake job.....

Posted

A somewhat common problem with the 3.4. They reduced the size of the rocker arm studs, I think around 2003. Of course, this meant there's more stress on the aluminum threads holding the stud in place, making them far more likely to strip.. I've already had to helicoil one of them for the same problem on my parent's 2003 Grand Am GT.

I had a chevy venture 3.4 in the shop and it ticked due to a loose rocker arm. it popped off stripped the head smoked a valve. looked like a botched intake job.....
Posted

Thanks for the information guys. Did not know about the anti-drainback valve in the oil distribution cover. I have not removed the cover, put perhaps I will to check on the status of that valve. Is it serviceable? The engine is absolutely pristine inside, especially for 220k. The original owner meticulously maintained this thing, so I hope the tick is not due to a clearance issue. I inspected both the tops, the plunger, and the ends of the valve stems when I replaced the lifters, and I did not notice any unusual wear patterns. I did not check lifter to lifter bore clearance though, nor the heights of the valve stems. The tick is becoming a more consistent problem, unfortunately. Thanks for the link/information to the 60 degree site with the repair for the cold tick problem. And my '91 does have the oil cooler on it. Had a '95 Z34 some years ago that did not have that oil cooler.

Posted

I've never been *fortunate* enough to have to remove and clean out the cover, the valve just sits in the vertical passage, gravity keeps it on the seat when the engine is not running.

 

But if I was encountering the annoying clatter at start-up this is where I'd look first.

 

 

DOHC%20oil%20distribution%20Large_zpsxxcxsybj.jpg

Posted

Awesome, I'll check that out. Thank you very much. Then I'll tackle the hot tick problem.

 

Andy

Posted

Something about those sharp bends in the bottom of the oil passages on either side of the distribution cover makes me nervous....looks like it would be awfully easy for junk to block the passages at the bends.

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