derkach99 Posted January 18, 2015 Report Share Posted January 18, 2015 Just a quick question. Is it normal under cold temperatures (-20C) (engine cold) to hear whining when you try to steer the car? I hear another wine too but I think its just the accessory belt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
l67ss Posted January 18, 2015 Report Share Posted January 18, 2015 Just a quick question. Is it normal under cold temperatures (-20C) (engine cold) to hear whining when you try to steer the car? I hear another wine too but I think its just the accessory belt. First off......post 2000 . But anyway.....-20c? Yeah id expect a LOTTA strange noises. Thats F@+$IN COLD! Lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rich_e777 Posted January 18, 2015 Report Share Posted January 18, 2015 Its normal to hear the whine of a GM power steering pump at ALL times. Ive flushed all my old fluid out and replaced with a Lucas PS fluid plus conditioner and bought a new PS pump. Still sounds like the failing gearbox from an Alfa Romeo from an episode of Top Gear. One day I`ll rebuild or replace the rack and pinion(prefer to rebuild with quality kit) and do the above again plus replace or upgrade the lines to see if that helps. If not going to put some straight pipe exhaust on her just to drown out the whine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
94 olds vert Posted January 18, 2015 Report Share Posted January 18, 2015 Doing that wont help. My CS whines all the time and I have done all that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rich_e777 Posted January 18, 2015 Report Share Posted January 18, 2015 I have to believe it will work. Wasn't there a discussion a few years ago about this? IIRC the reason was due to inferior bearings being used in the remanned pumps but I'm not sure on that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derkach99 Posted January 19, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 19, 2015 Ok, just another quick question that worries me about the car is that on the frame of the car just in front of the rear wheels I have some frame rot. It worries me a bit because as a result my mechanic asks me how much are you willing to spend in the car. I tell him I am planning to make the car a summer car and he says that's a good plan but I am afraid its going to cost alot to repair this rot when I get around to it. I believe there is still lots of strength in it though. I am just worried. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GnatGoSplat Posted January 20, 2015 Report Share Posted January 20, 2015 My 94 whines when cold too. As long as the fluid level is normal and there are no leaks, I don't worry about it. Give the suspension parts a good shake and see if the trailing arm mount is solid or not. If it wobbles like it's going to come off, then it's not safe to drive and needs to be repaired. I've seen plenty of pics posted here of the mount completely busted off. No idea how much it would cost to weld in a new mount, but it doesn't sound cheap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derkach99 Posted January 20, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 20, 2015 My 94 whines when cold too. As long as the fluid level is normal and there are no leaks, I don't worry about it. Give the suspension parts a good shake and see if the trailing arm mount is solid or not. If it wobbles like it's going to come off, then it's not safe to drive and needs to be repaired. I've seen plenty of pics posted here of the mount completely busted off. No idea how much it would cost to weld in a new mount, but it doesn't sound cheap. At this point I would say that they are solid especially notable during very cold weather when the rear suspension is stiff.(i think because the mono leaf spring is frozen solid.) My dad used to jack up the rear of the car from the knuckle of the trailing arm. Would undercoating prevent the rotting from progressing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
55trucker Posted January 20, 2015 Report Share Posted January 20, 2015 Temp really has no bearing on the state of the chassis, those two boxes rot from the inside out, what you see on the outside is less than whats going on inside, if YOUR situation is this bad.......(this a generic photo) you need to get that addressed, as stated above fabrication costs money, you'd need to speak to a qualified welder (or a the very least someone who is experienced enough/comfortable doing this) who would be interested in tacking the job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derkach99 Posted January 20, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 20, 2015 Temp really has no bearing on the state of the chassis, those two boxes rot from the inside out, what you see on the outside is less than whats going on inside, if YOUR situation is this bad.......(this a generic photo) you need to get that addressed, as stated above fabrication costs money, you'd need to speak to a qualified welder (or a the very least someone who is experienced enough/comfortable doing this) who would be interested in tacking the job. So thats what that bolt does, its holds up the speed censor wire. mine is about the same as that but instead of a hold on the side there is one at the bottom, but this is just a box?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schurkey Posted January 20, 2015 Report Share Posted January 20, 2015 (edited) First off......post 2000 . But anyway.....-20c? Yeah id expect a LOTTA strange noises. Thats F@+$IN COLD! Lol Oh, please. -20C is what we hope it warms up to when it's -20F. I used to walk to school at -35F, the wind-chill was colder. Thank God for "Global Warming", it's made this sh!thole much easier to take. Hardly ever gets to -30F anymore. Both my '92 and '93 W-bodies are prone to PS fluid leaks in cold weather. The crappy hose clamps on the PS return hose loosen due to the hose cold-flowing out from under the clamps. Low fluid level causes a terrible whine even after re-filling the reservoir. After the emulsified air bubbles out of the fluid, it's quiet again except when first started and the fluid is cold. Be aware that GM sells "Cold-Climate" PS fluid, very expensive, but was the O-N-L-Y thing that would quiet the PS in my Trailblazer. Remove ALL the old fluid and "conditioner", refill with a quart (as needed) of the special cold-climate fluid. The cold-climate fluid works fine in the summer. http://www.amazon.com/Genuine-Fluid-12345867-Climate-Steering/dp/B000QIQAL4/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1421782548&sr=8-1&keywords=cold+climate+power+steering+fluid Where are you seeing a speed sensor wire??? I see a park-brake cable 'n' sheath. Edited January 20, 2015 by Schurkey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GnatGoSplat Posted January 20, 2015 Report Share Posted January 20, 2015 Yeah, I think that's a park brake cable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derkach99 Posted January 20, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 20, 2015 Yeah, I think that's a park brake cable. no that just holds up the abs speed censor wire, that hanger is gone on my car but the brake cable runs just to the inside of that toward the middle of the car. I find it amazing that my parking brake is still functional. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
55trucker Posted January 20, 2015 Report Share Posted January 20, 2015 So thats what that bolt does, its holds up the speed censor wire. mine is about the same as that but instead of a hold on the side there is one at the bottom, but this is just a box?? that *box* is a structural section, the car's regular sheetmetal is in the neighborhood of 20 gauge (.035), these are approx 14-12 gauge (.083-.109), you look closely at that shot of the forward trailing arm *eye*, it has been used as a jacking point, and you can see it has folded over and as well broken thru and collapsed the box. Not pretty, foolish on the part of whoever & how many times in the past the trailing arm was used to lift the car. Expensive to rebuild..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
94 olds vert Posted January 20, 2015 Report Share Posted January 20, 2015 I jack up my convertible from the that mount, but my car is not a rot box. I see a lot of first gens in the junkyard because of those mounts. I have seen plenty of Ws going down the road with a snapped trailing arm and it is just bouncing down the road. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derkach99 Posted January 20, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 20, 2015 that *box* is a structural section, the car's regular sheetmetal is in the neighborhood of 20 gauge (.035), these are approx 14-12 gauge (.083-.109), you look closely at that shot of the forward trailing arm *eye*, it has been used as a jacking point, and you can see it has folded over and as well broken thru and collapsed the box. Not pretty, foolish on the part of whoever & how many times in the past the trailing arm was used to lift the car. Expensive to rebuild..... Broken through the box? mine has folded over lips like that one does. there really seems to not be a good place to jack up the rear of the car. My cutty is going to be put away next winter this is the last one! mine just has rust holes in the bottom the other side looks noticeably better. Also that is a speed sensor wire because one of mine started to come off the bottom of the car and got yanked off my the tire, im in need of a new one, the wire hugs the trailing arm like that one does complete with the plastic covering. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GnatGoSplat Posted January 20, 2015 Report Share Posted January 20, 2015 You actually jack up on the trailing arm mount itself? I wouldn't think that's a good idea. On the vert, I've jacked up on the factory jack location because it seems quite thick. It's thinner on the 89 so I'm afraid to use the factory jack location with my hydraulic jack. In the past, I've jacked it up on that spot next to the mount where it looks like there's an extra layer of metal folded over. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
94 olds vert Posted January 20, 2015 Report Share Posted January 20, 2015 I see no problem with jacking it up there, I usually put a jack stand there as well to hold the car. If my CS was a MI car like my 91 GP was there was no way I do that. That metal was looking crusty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derkach99 Posted January 20, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 20, 2015 (edited) the silver cable is the parking brake cable. The black wire or cable below it i can't remember what that one is for. Edited January 20, 2015 by derkach99 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derkach99 Posted January 20, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 20, 2015 You actually jack up on the trailing arm mount itself? I wouldn't think that's a good idea.On the vert, I've jacked up on the factory jack location because it seems quite thick. It's thinner on the 89 so I'm afraid to use the factory jack location with my hydraulic jack. In the past, I've jacked it up on that spot next to the mount where it looks like there's an extra layer of metal folded over. My dad would use the mount to jack up the car. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rich_e777 Posted January 20, 2015 Report Share Posted January 20, 2015 In the front its fine to use the rear subframe mount and I stick a jack stand just behind it on the unibody frame, for the back ive used the front trailing arm mount with a small jack but with a big floor jack I always use the centerline jack pad. I like to use a block of wood or rubber pad to spread the weight out and prevent scratches Those wires go to your rear speed sensors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GnatGoSplat Posted January 20, 2015 Report Share Posted January 20, 2015 The mount seems to be really thin metal to me. Unless the service manual says otherwise, I don't think it's a good idea to jack on that spot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
55trucker Posted January 20, 2015 Report Share Posted January 20, 2015 Broken through the box? Do you not see the edge where the steel has severed? The upward pressure of jacking on the bottom of the trailing arm support there has pushed the trailing arm support thru the rotted box. The proper location for a lifting pad is the area in front of the support where there is vertical strength in the sides of the box (or there would be in a healthy car), but whoever is lifting the car has to watch for the emerg brake cable & the small wire loop that holds the park cable right there & in the case of an ABS car that sensor which is in the same location. Get sloppy & one can squeeze the park cable with the weight of the car and crush it & also destroy the ABS sensor wire. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derkach99 Posted January 21, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 21, 2015 Do you not see the edge where the steel has severed? The upward pressure of jacking on the bottom of the trailing arm support there has pushed the trailing arm support thru the rotted box. The proper location for a lifting pad is the area in front of the support where there is vertical strength in the sides of the box (or there would be in a healthy car), but whoever is lifting the car has to watch for the emerg brake cable & the small wire loop that holds the park cable right there & in the case of an ABS car that sensor which is in the same location. Get sloppy & one can squeeze the park cable with the weight of the car and crush it & also destroy the ABS sensor wire. im confused so the trailing arm is suppose to be under teh box not in it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rich_e777 Posted January 21, 2015 Report Share Posted January 21, 2015 ^ correct, if that is the underside of your CS, then you need major metal work done and it is dangerous to drive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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