Stevo Posted July 20, 2014 Report Share Posted July 20, 2014 Back story (relevant or not). So I ran out of gas a few times in 2010/11. (I was living on a student budget but I digress). In May I was out with friends and while at an idle drive, the vehicle lurched in much the same way as one expects when you are running out of gas (odd because the dash said I burned no more than 10L and I keep a min 30L at a time). So I did my best to make it to the nearest station and filled the tank with 15L meaning there was 40L +/- in the tank. So what the hell? Then every once in a while the vehicle would just die at low idle. Sometimes when the car is cold and at times after a trip but always at low idle. First instinct was to pull the throttle body and it was gummed up. The vehicle ran without complaint for several weeks. Then the car began to stall again. Either at stop signs or intersections (great feeling there) or at low idle cruising down the street (check *** below). The current situation. A week ago Friday (10th). I put on a new resonator as the old one cracked like someone backed up and hit the exhaust on a rock and bent the exhaust at the rear of resonator (not sure if that was the case). The car stalled that day so I brought it up to my brother's place and put a reader on it. (OBD Code P0463 - Fuel Level Sensor Circuit High Input). Thursday (17th), we pulled and replaced the second CV shaft and after the car would NOT start. When it did it bucked and surged and blew black smoke. When it did run I was able to drive it up the street but at the last stop sign I hammered the throttle, spun the tires, blew a puff of black smoke and stalled the car. It would not start again afterwards. (Scanner said MAF problem). Friday (18th) I tried the start the car and again it would not start. I pulled and cleaned the MAF using an electronics spray. The car started right up and went into a smooth idle and gave NO codes. I drove the car up the street where it seemed to struggle with gas at the first stop sign. I made a stop and turned the car off. When I got back in and tried to start it, it took a couple of tries and ran. I took it for another quick run and everything seemed to be fine and parked it. When I tried to start the car later, it behaved the same as the day before and would not start and if it did would buck and miss and dump black smoke out the exhaust. The common thread was that when it stalled, the gas gauge and the rpm gauge moved almost in unison. The car also ran fine when the gas gauge falsely indicated a full tank of gas.*** So can anyone recognize anything in all of this? I have no idea where to start other than the wild goose chase of pulling and replacing sensors. I have a couple of videos of the engine running poorly. I will upload them later. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redgrandprix Posted July 20, 2014 Report Share Posted July 20, 2014 black smoke im pretty sure is an overly rich a/f ratio, what would cause that idk maybe an o2 sensor is out of wack but not throwing a code for some reason or maybe the car is missfiring due to a bad coil/plug/plugwire. maybe try disconnecting the battery for a few minutes and do an idle relearn if you haven't already but these are just some thoughts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobertISaar Posted July 20, 2014 Report Share Posted July 20, 2014 the fuel guage moving while running good/bad sounds like the PCM is flaking out(since the guage is driven off of a PWM signal on an 02GP), or a wiring problem causing the PCM to go nuts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nitehawkjcb Posted July 20, 2014 Report Share Posted July 20, 2014 (edited) To begin with - in my opinion, you have a MAF problem. It needs to be replaced. A buddy of mine has an 01 GTP, the MAF was bad, threw a code for it, and puffed black smoke out - but would stall at low RPMs. Replaced the MAF and did a tune up, now it doesn't stall or smoke at all. The gauge problem sounds like it could very well be an issue with the fuel level sensor and/or the wiring to the tank. To check that, you have to pull the entire sending unit and inspect. I have had those wires get so hot they melted together, shorting shit out. But, my car is older and was using tiny stock wires to push a Walbro. New sending unit with new fuel tank pressure sensor and she was back in business. Good luck with your repair. Replacing your sending unit/FTPS is easy though, there's a convenient access hatch under the carpet in your trunk, right behind the back seats. Edited July 20, 2014 by nitehawkjcb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo Posted July 26, 2014 Author Report Share Posted July 26, 2014 Thanks for the info fellas. Thankfully I got laid off from my job back in May so now I have more time to work on all of this. =/ I'm going to check the coil packs first. I need to replace the wires and plugs as well. I have to assume they are the original components on the car having not replaced them myself. The rear ones are going to be a @#&$% nightmare as usual. =\ The next thing will be an inspection of the sending unit. I have already had some wiring issues in some places and fixed those as best as possible. So I can only assume NH's points are on the money. I will then check the PCM as well if I cannot discern anything else at that point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AL Posted July 27, 2014 Report Share Posted July 27, 2014 I agree on the maf sensor, cleaning it usually only works for about 5 minutes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
94 olds vert Posted July 27, 2014 Report Share Posted July 27, 2014 I agree on the maf sensor, cleaning it usually only works for about 5 minutes I can confirm this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo Posted August 12, 2014 Author Report Share Posted August 12, 2014 .. and the winner is. MAF sensor. I found a outlet in town that sells AC Delco parts cheaper than the dealer. Prices were: $400 for a new Delco MAF $215 for a reman Delco MAF $90 for an aftermarket "other guys" brand MAF I picked the re-manufactured. Popped it in and it started up and ran high then low RPMs until it leveled at about 900RPMs. No black smoke. Now there is some top end ticking but I attribute that to it sitting and not running for so long with all the oil at the bottom end. Thanks all who gave me advice. Now it's plugs and wires. Oil/Filter Change. Rear Brakes and E-Brakes. I still have to pop that sending unit and check the wiring. Hopefully I can find work soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nitehawkjcb Posted August 13, 2014 Report Share Posted August 13, 2014 Glad you got it back in action. The ticking is possibly the injectors. Those things are loud. Could also be lifters, but that's less likely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo Posted August 25, 2014 Author Report Share Posted August 25, 2014 Did the plugs and wires last week. The car runs smoothly. I just want to say that I got into mechanical design for a reason and the clips on those wires are the biggest pain in the arse, I would NEVER design something like that. I did the back 3 first. Not fun. The plugs were blackened by the MAF issue. Some white tips on the center electrode and corresponding ground jump point, nothing horrible. The rear three plugs had serious corrosion on the hex flats so I should assume that they are factory. I replaced all plugs with Delco standard for that car and paid $8 each (1 year warranty). Delco wire set $100 (lifetime warranty). Weirdest thing EVER. I am standing in front of the car not touching anything. I am putting dielectric grease into a new wire's boot and the car BEEPED at me once and loud. Scared the shit out of me. My brother's dogs in the house started losing their minds and began barking. I am assuming it was a thank you for fixing the issue. =\ If I'm lyin' I'm dyin'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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