slick Posted November 17, 2003 Report Share Posted November 17, 2003 I'm thinking about getting my car painted. One of my friends dads would do it, but what i want to know is how much all the materials would cost, and I have a few questions. First, I need to know prices on how much paint, hardener, clear coat, primer, and reducer costs. I will be re-painting my car white. Now, I want a pearl effect in my paint. From what i hear, you add the pearl to the clear coat. Is this true? And pearls come in different colors, true? If this all is true, how much does pearl cost, specifically a reddish pearl? Ok, now for the final layout. I will be putting about 3-4 coats of paint on the car, if I do it. And about 2-3 coats of clearcoat, so I also need to know how much of all this stuff I need to get. Also, this would go really good in an appearance section!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Intlcutlass Posted November 18, 2003 Report Share Posted November 18, 2003 I have been wanting to do this for some time now. I have an 89 Cutty that needs body work badly. I was either going to change it to black , or keep the stock red/ silver. I had researched this a little. whatever you find out, please, please forward it to me. I am very interested to hear what you find out..... Lee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slick Posted November 18, 2003 Author Report Share Posted November 18, 2003 Ok, this is info i got from a guy from another message board, so here you go. As i get more info, i will post it: Paint prices depend on the brand of paint you use. I use sikkens paint and I believe a gallon of clear runs about $150.00. And that's without the hardner and reducer. I painted my friends accord with nason clear and I think it was less than $100.00 for a gallon and the hardener. I got 3 coats on the entire car including the bumpers and had some left over. If you want to use pearl your best bet would put some in the first 2 coats of clear then put at least 2 coats of clear without pearl on top of that. Sikkens has a sort of clear base that I use when I want to do something like this. So whatever paint you go with check with them and see if they have something like that. House of Kolor has a ton of pearls to pick from. When I painted my beretta I was going to do a blue pearl over top of the white but it always had a yellowish cast to it. I tried dry and liquid pearls and they were all the same. So before you go doing this I would suggest doing some test panels to make sure the color is what you want. I will get some prices from our sikkens rep tomorrow and post them for you. But for a general idea I paid $650.00 for materials when I did my car and he cut me a big break. Hope that helps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Intlcutlass Posted November 18, 2003 Report Share Posted November 18, 2003 I just sent you a PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slick Posted November 18, 2003 Author Report Share Posted November 18, 2003 Got it. I'm almost tempted to post the info. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slick Posted November 18, 2003 Author Report Share Posted November 18, 2003 Ok, i posted it. This is info i got from Intlcutlass: I make little "How to" sheets for myself, by cutting and pasting peoples comments & suggestions into a work doc. Here is that doc, pick out what you like. There have been several people out there who have expressed concern over the quality of my paint job only taking 4 weeks. Most say that is should take much longer for a quality job. If you add up the hours I actually spend on the car, it would make it take just over 2 weeks working full time. This equates to $3500 labor and $1000 in materials. Which is a reasonable price for a quality paint job. Most repaints around here will cost $2500 for a basic quality job, and $1500 for a good job. I am not as speedy as most professionals so it takes me a bit longer. Since there has bees some doubt, I thought I would explain the paint process for a show car finish. One thing to keep in mind is painting technology has increased tremendously over the past 10 years and new paint is far superior to the old stuff. The first thing you must do is strip the car. Decide how much of the car to take apart and how far you will go. The best paint jobs have all the old paint removed and all moldings, trim, bumpers etc. removed. There is no need to remove suspension, engine, interior or anything else as these items are easily masked off. If you do the total restoration then you would be stripping the whole car to the shell, but for just an external paint job it is not necessary. Strip the car in what ever means you want. Chemical strippers do a nice job, but require careful washing of the car to remove all residue and they make a mess on the floor. Any small amount of stripper left in some corner can ruin a paint job. And besides they are smelly and burn the skin. Also, strippers will damage any plastic filler so all filler must be removed and replaced. The alternative is to use abrasives to strip the car. Using a 9 inch sander with 24 or 36 grit paper, you sand until you see metal. If the paint job was an old lacquer job or used lacquer primer, then a razor blade may be used to remove the top layers. This method will remove some filler as you hit it so you must be careful. Once you hit metal use an 80 grit to rough up the metal for better paint adhesion no matter what stripping method you use. If filler is over 10 years old, or from an unknown paint job, then it should be removed and replaced. Either use the 9 inch random orbit sander or a knotted wire brush on a 4-1/2 inch angle grinder. I prefer the wire brush. There are some more exotic methods if paint removal if you have the finances. Media blasting with Walnut shells or Dry ice pellets works well but is not recommended unless you are doing a total strip of the car. NEVER sand blast a car body. The sand acts as a peen (this is how they shot peen rods) and will make body panels look like the ocean in a hurricane. You can also acid dip the car which will remove all rust and paint, but the car must be entirely stripped. After you have the car stripped, then the metal work begins. Small dents can be worked out by using a hammer and dolly or a semi pointed probe worked across the metal on the back side. I worked out several small dents this way and did not have to use any filler at all in those places. Larger dents have to be banged out using the hammer and dolly the best as can be done. Unless you are an artesian then you will have to use filler on large dents. Be sure to not have any high places in the metal or you will have a bump in the final paint finish that cannot be sanded down. Often high areas can be "shrunk" by using a pick hammer with a dolly in the back side. What you do is exchange the large dent or bump for a whole bunch of small bumps that are easier to fill and cover. Lightly just tap over that rise area working from the edges to the center and the bump will slowly disappears. This may take some practice to get good at. If you drill holes to pull out a dent, then you must weld up the holes when done to prevent moisture from getting to the back side of the filler material through the holes. There is only one way to fix rust. Cut it out and remove it and weld in new metal. Completely remove all rusty metal from the car, don't cover any up or the rust will grow. I use a Plasma cutter to cut the metal but quality tin-snips or a nibbler will work just fine. If your car has some surface rust than this is OK as the paint will completely seal it and prevent it from growing further. Cut a piece if 18 gauge metal to cover your rusted area that is about 1/4 inch larger than the hole. This metal should be a plain steel and not have any coating such as galvanized. The base metal should also be very clean for at least an inch away from the weld. Use wire brush or sander to clean. As an option, you can add a depression to the body metal for the patch to set in. A tool is made to do this but car must be used. This tool only makes 3/4 inch long ridges at one time and can cause some warping of the metal around the patch area. The new metal must be completely welded in using a good mig welder. Low current 110 welders just don't do the job with the exception of the Lincoln SP100 or SP125. I use a 200 Amp Century. Turn the welder up to a voltage that would normally melt holes in the metal if welded continuously. Then tack the metal in place using short bursts of weld (1 second) about every 4 inches around the patch. NEVER try to push the metal in place while welding. The metal should fit the contour of the body naturally with only a very slight pressure needed to hold the pieces together. If you press hard while welding then you add stresses to the patch and will cause warpage in the welding process. Once the piece is in place you can start welding it solid. This is very important to do slowly. Weld in about 1/4 to 1/2 inch strips around the patch with one hand on the surrounding metal about 3 inches away. Each weld spot should spaced apart around the patch area. You keep doing this until you fill all the gap in. If the surrounding metal gets too hot to hold you hand on then quit till you can lay your hand over the area that is being welded. This process may take 20 minutes for a 6 by 6 patch area. If you rush the welding then the metal gets too hot and warps. Sheet metal under about 12 gauge is made by a cold rolling process. This process puts stresses in the metal that are released in the welding process which will cause warpage. Keeping the head down reduces this possibility. The weld should be continuous and not just spotted. Moisture can come in from the back side and cause rust to grow under the filler material and cause the filler to lift off. Grind the weld lightly when done to reduce any high spots in the weld. Before applying filler, rough up the metal with a 24 grit disk on a 7 inch grinder so the filler has something to stick to. You may also want to use the pick hammer and slightly dent the metal in around the weld area so that less filler is needed to cover up the patch. For surface rust in areas like the floor board where is has gotten deep or has some Swiss cheese type holes less than the size of a pencil, then an alternate to welding can be done. Use a wire brush to remove all loose scale and sand away paint from the surrounding area for about 6 inches. Clean up all dust with a vacuume. Apply POR15 metal prep to the area to etch the new metal that is not rusted. POR15 will not stick to clean metal unless chemically etched. But it sticks very well to rust. Apply a heavy coat of POR15 paint over the entire area. Lay a layer of fiberglass cloth over the rusted area and coat with another heavy coat of POR15. After the paint is dry to the touch, add another coat and a layer of slightly smaller fiberglass cloth. After it has dried to the touch then add 2 more coats of POR15 alone waiting till the paint has dried to the touch between each coat. POR15 is an amazing paint. It does not ever fully get hard. It dries faster when it is damp out. It will not lift with the formation of rust like normal paint will, and is so strong that you will NEVER be able to peel that fiberglass cloth off again. The patch will be nearly as strong as the original metal. The stuff is not really paint, but they call it paint for lack of a better word. You can also use it for areas of heavy rust on the body that has not gone completely through. Simply paint a couple of coats over rusted metal before filling and painting. If you are going to top coat the POR15 then you need to spray a light coat of primer on it before it completely dries or sand it so the top coats will stick. You don't need the fiberglass cloth on an area that does not have holes through. I also recommend using it on any are under fenders where rust is on the back side and over the back side of the welded in patches. POR15 is not the same type of product as those rust converters like "Extend". It does not convert the rust, but covers it up preventing moisture from getting to the rust stopping any further growth. OH, and one other point, Wear plastic gloves. POR15 sticks to skin like crazy glue. If it dries on your hands you will wear it for about 2 weeks. I tried Acetone, Xylene, Toluene, Methel-ethel keytone, Tricholrethene, gasoline, Alcohol, Lacquer thinner, Carb cleaner, Brake cleaner with Hexane, Sand paper, and soap to get it off and nothing works. Now that all the metal is fixed we need to make the car smooth. There is no need to use lead as filler. Modern plastic fillers will last just as long as the paint job and are easier to work with. Besides, lead is toxic and hard to find at times, hard to apply, hard to sand, and the acid flux used can cause corrosion and paint problems. There are several types of plastic filler. Fillers with Fiberglass threads such as "Everglass" are for filling areas over 1/4 inch deep. These fillers do not crack when used for deep fill. Regular plastic fillers such as Marhide "Golden Extra" is the general purpose filler used to fill most dents and patches. Some special fillers such as "Metal-to-Metal" are used in areas that may be susceptible to cracking. These fillers are more flexible to resist the cracking. There is also a fine fill Polyester glazing filler to fill small imperfections and spots left from sanding or hail damage. These fillers are made to be used either under or over paint and are the only type made to do so. They should not be used in fill depths of more than 1/16th of an inch. The generic "Bondo" brand filler is of OK quality, but is hard to sand. You will find the Filler material you get at the paint store is not any higher priced than the Kmart Bondo but is far superior in quality and sandability. Applying filler can be somewhat of an art in itself. Mix up slightly more than what you will need. (this takes practice to estimate). Once mixed properly, you will have about 3 to 5 minutes to work with the filler before it starts to harden. Too much hardener will cause it to harden while mixing or if you can get it on the car, it will possibly crack when if cures because it hardened too fast. To little hardener will make it take for ever to harden or might not harden at all. As a rule, a cup full of filler uses about a half tablespoon of hardener. When mixed properly, it will get unworkable in 5 minutes, then be sandable in 12 to 15 minutes and totally hard after about 2 hours. It is chemically hardened and does not require any time to breathe. Cover the entire area being filled past the edges of what you think you will need. Once the area is covered work the filler from the edges to the center using the plastic scraper tool getting it as smooth as possible to the final contour. Once sandable, use a 9 inch random orbit sander with 36 grit paper and work down the filler to the desired contour holding the sander almost totally flat to the metal. If you desire, you can stop slightly before the final height and use an air file and 80 grit paper. Work the air file in random directions to prevent cutting too much in one area. For some tight or rounded areas you might also use a DA sander with 80 grit paper. Never use finer than 80 grit paper sanding filler. It will take too long and the longer it takes the more ripples you will get in the filler. Trying to sand the filler perfectly smooth takes bunches of time to get it smooth and not get ripples. Don't worry about the deep sanding marks in the filler, as the primer will take care of them. If you have to apply a second coat, then the second coat should cover the entire area and not just the low spots. If you cover just low spots then when you sand the new filler, you will sand some of the previous coat making new low spots. Trust me on this one, I learned the hard way. Another thing to remember about painting, you can see low spots but not high spots in the finish. Therefor leave any filler slightly high and don't have a low spot. I learned this the hard way also. It takes some practice, but filler can be easy to apply and sand quickly. Unless it is a corner of edge, don't ever sand filler by hand or with a small sanding block. Your hand motion will put ripples in the filler that will show up in the paint. To see how you are doing, hold your palm flat over a piece of paper towel. Rub your flat palm (and the towel) over the area you are working on while looking away or closing your eyes. You will then "feel" the high and low spots that need attention. The whole art of body work takes some practice to be good and fast. The guy that taught me can fill a dent in a door in one coat of filler and it only take him 15 minutes. That is about all I will say about filler as saying any more might require a book to get all the information across. Note: In the following procedures for painting, several precautions must be taken. All the paints used are chemically activated and cured. If you do not clean your paint gun at once, you will be buying a new one. The paint will cure in the gun in a short time. I actually had the primer setting up before I could get it all sprayed on. These new paints are also more hazardous than the old lacquers and enamels. A dust mask is not sufficient. At the minimum you should use a paint spray respirator. If you are sensitive to chemicals or have some breathing problems like ahsma, then you need to wear a air supplied respirator. This is the type where a pump sits out side and pumps fresh air in to you. You could alternately wear a scuba or firefighters air tank. These new paints are absorbed through the skin and in reality, you should wear one of those white painters suits when spraying paint. The most absorbed area for paint is the eyes. Those little swimming pool eye covers work well if you do not have a full face respirator. For most people, the exposure is low enough for a single paint job, that the respirator is good enough, but it depends on the persons system. It doesn't seem to bother me, but my father can get sick standing outside the door watching me. Use your own good judgment. Also modern paints no longer have mixing instructions. You have to get the separate instructions from the paint store. It is one way the government is trying to persuade non professionals to not paint their own cars. For painting you will need a paint gun. I use a Devilbis GFG517 which is a normal flow gravity feed paint gun. The old suction feed guns are almost useless with today's paints. They are just too thick and heavy to spray out of a suction feed gun. HVLP guns may be used if you wish, but I don't like them. They put the paint out in a rough finish in anticipation of using a baking oven to make the finish smooth out. Once all low areas are filled then we are ready to start painting. First we need to cover up the bare metal to protect it. Mask all areas and openings off with masking paper and quality 3M masking tape. Don't use news paper as paint will actually soak through the paper making a mess of what is underneath. I use Ditzler DP40 epoxy primer. It mixes 1:1 with the DP402 catylist. You could also use Dupont Variprime acid primer. Give the metal 2 good wet coats allowing the paint to flash (gloss is gone) between coats. You should even cover the plastic filler. The DP primer should be top coated with the next primer stage within 24 hours and no longer than 7 days. DP primer causes a chemical adhesion to the next coat and the chemical reaction has ran out after 7 days and would require sanding for proper paint bonding. I usually wait about an hour and apply the primer. For primer I use Ditzler K36 Prima Urethane primer. You could also use Dupont Uro-prime. It is as high a quality as the clear coat that you will use and is a high solids paint. Mix it with 5 parts K36, 1 part DU4 hardener, and 1 part DT860 reducer. Apply 2 to 3 heavy coats letting each coat flash before applying the next. Let paint sit at least 2 hours and preferably overnight before sanding. Where most of the time came from the paint jobs of olden days was waiting on the lacquer primers to dry. To prevent shrinkage of primer you would have to wait about a week between sandings with lacquer to allow the reducer to completely evaporate. Plus the old lacquers were not high build, forcing you to apply more coats and sand more times. The only good Lacquer primer is the Ditzler Kondar primer which is a high build and will dry in about 3 days. But lacquer should not be used with modern top coats as they may react and reduce paint life. The new Urethane primers are chemically hardened and require very little drying time. When sanding primer, apply a light mist of some dark color from a spray can of lacquer. This is called a "tracer". It is your guide to sanding the paint. This procedure is called "Block" sanding. Use 180 grit paper to sand the first coat of primer. You may think this funny, but use a 3 by 3 inch piece of Styrofoam about 12 inches long to sand with by hand with sticky back 180 grit paper. The Styrofoam is straight, fairly solid, and has just enough give to not dig in. By hand you will work the foam in diagonal strokes trying to keep the sanding stroke at least 12 inches or more. Work it in many different directions while sanding to prevent cutting lines in the primer. You can also use the air file to sand the primer with a 180 grit paper. Work the air file in a slow motion across the paint changing directions often. For rounded areas, use a foam sanding block or the palm of your hand. Avoid using fingers to sand, but rather use the whole palm. If you sand with fingers you will cut little groves that you will see in the paint later. When sanding with a small block or by hand use rapid motion with very light pressure for best results. What we are looking for when sanding the primer is the removal of all the tracer coat. Once all evidence of the tracer coat is gone, then we can stop sanding. Just like the filler, the more we sand, the more likely we are to get waves in the paint. As you sand over the filled area, you will slowly see the those massive sanding scratches go away. If while sanding, you reach primer or metal before all the tracer coat is gone, then stop sanding there as you will need to add more tracer coat. If you have an area that is real low or you have some "chip" spots then these can be filled with the polyester filler I mentioned earlier. Just mix and use as little as possible for the fill. Sand the filler with 80 grit using the 9 inch random orbit sander, the DA or the Air file. Once the primer is done with 180 grit, add more primer. If you still had tracer paint or you had to add more filler, then apply 2 heavy coats. Wipe of blow off all dust before applying the next coat of paint. Just like the filler, paint the entire car again and not just small areas, although you can actually apply the paint a little heavier in the areas that you know are low. Repeat till you have no tracer showing. If you have no more tracer showing, then apply 1 heavy coat. When dry, sand with 400 grit paper by bare hand using water. Use 600 grit if you plan to paint with a metallic color. You will again want to use a tracer coat for sanding and sand till all tracer is gone. You should now have a very smooth car ready for final paint. Remove all the masking paper from the car. You will have to add new stuff for the final paint. Dust in the old paper can get in the paint and ruin a paint job. Using an air hose, wipe the paint off with a rag while blowing the dust you are wiping away. If you wash the car with water, make sure it has a couple hours to dry before painting. It will take you some time to mask it off anyway. Use the air hose to blow air in all areas of the car. The head lamp doors, under the fenders, the cowl vents, everywhere. Go around the car about 5 times blowing it off. If some dust is left in a crevice some where, odds are it will end up in the paint. Once you are done blowing all the dust off the car, reapply the masking paper. Paint in a well ventilated area. If in a building, then there should be a powerful fan blowing the paint fumes out with an opening on the opposite end to let fresh air in. Let this fan run while blowing off the car and for about 1/2 hour after to suck all the dust that is airborne out. Now is the only time to sweep the floor. From now on out, you do not sweep the floor till done. If it is a calm clear day, you can even paint out side. But any dust kicked up and carried by the wind will get in the paint. Once everything is clean and the car is masked off, wet the floor well with water. This keeps dust that is on the floor on the floor. If the floor dries out it is OK because the water makes it stick to the floor even after dry kind of like dust sticks to the car after it rains, i.e. rainspots. Just before getting ready to paint, wipe the car down with a tack cloth. Unfold the cloth and use very light rapid wiping. Pressing too hard will make some of the stuff in the tack cloth stick to the car which can mess up the paint job. With our fan running and respirator on, apply 2 light to medium coats of DP40 epoxy primer as a paint sealer. You cannot use the Dupont Variprime as a sealer. If you desire the DP40 can be thinned with up to 100% DT860 or 870 reducer to make is easier to spray. If you do reduce it, then you will have to wait a couple of hours before applying the color. Non reduced you can topcoat in about 30 minutes. If you are using a dark colored paint, then you may want to use the DP red (#74) or Black (#50?) instead of the #40 grey-green. No sanding is necessary before applying the color coat. You have several options of top coat. The oldest is Lacquer. Lacquer was once the paint of choice for show cars because it went on easily and could be buffed to an incredible shine. However, about 1980 they took the lead out of automotive paint and Lacquer has not been worth a C*** ever since. Up into the 80s GM cars were painted with non clearcoat lacquer. That is why some of those mid 80s GMs peel and flake so bad. You can still use it but it will not hold a shine very well and will tend to crack an cobweb easily with time. Most lacquer finishes are clear coated but don't have to be. For lacquer, you apply color till "hiding" is achieved, usually about 3 medium coats. Then clear is added. Lacquer is thinned with the appropriate temperature thinner at 100 to 150% ratio. For non sanding applications, use about 3 coats of clear. If you plan to sand the clear and buff it, then apply 6 coats as you will sand 3 of them back off. Apply the paint "wet" and overlap each pass 50% for best results. Don't be afraid to lay the paint on heavy. If you paint too slow, they you will see dull spots and roughness or "orange peel". For lacquer you will have to wait about a month before sanding and buffing. The next paint of generations is Enamel. For enamel to work properly, it must have a hardener added. This hardener will add some hazards to the paint above that of just the Enamel itself. If hardener is not used, then the Enamel will takes weeks to get really hard and the whole time it will be very easy to scratch. Enamel should not be sanded and buffed. Doing so will actually reduce the shine and the life of the paint. Enamel is applied in about 3 to 4 medium coats thinned with the appropriate temperature reducer at about 100%. Next came Urethane single stage paint. One of the earliest of this is Dupont Imron. This paint is mixed with a hardener and reducer just like the primer. It is applied in the same manner as Enamel. However, this paint may be sanded and buffed if desired. If you plan to sand and buff, then use 5 coats instead of 3. This is good paint for doing under fenders, in the engine bay, and suspension parts as it will shine well with little waxing and does not need to be buffed. By far the best top coating is the Basecoat-clearcoat. There have been several varieties in the past. One of the best is either the dupont Chroma base or the Ditzler Concept 2000. I painted my car with the concept 2002 clear and DBC basecoat. For the Ditzler, mix the basecoat 100% with DT 860 or 870 reducer. Apply 2 to 3 wet coats. This paint will cover fast. It will spray with the look of cottage cheese but will smooth out as it dries. Too dry of coat and it will not smooth out. Too wet of coat and you will get some runs like I did. If you get runs in the base coat, then let it dry about an hour and sand with water and 1000 grit paper. You can then apply a little more color to the area where the run is. Since the basecoat is not really a hardened paint, you can spray in a little area and it will mix in. As a matter of fact, you can just spray DT reducer over the area and the run sometimes will just melt away. The Base coat is very fragile and even after a week can be just wiped off with a rag of reducer. It requires the chemicals in the Urethane to make it harden. Therefore, the base coat is not sanded prior to clear coating. Once the base coat has flashed off, mix up some Clear and get ready to spray. For the Concept 2002, mix clear at 5 parts, DXF11 hardener at 5 parts and DT reducer at 1 part. It took me about 2 and a half quarts of clear for the whole car. Spray clear with 2 very heavy coats letting it dry to the touch between each coat. This clear is applied to just before the point of running. It may appear a little rough in appearance, but you will be sanding it out. The paint will look like cottage cheese as it is sprayed but within a minute will level out. For optimal results, after the car is painted, it is baked at 160 degrees for about 4 hours. Doing so will cause the paint to "float" out and get extremely smooth. This is the way the big paint shops get all the orange peel out of the paint that is caused by the HVLP guns. It is also the way the new car makers are getting the new car paint jobs so smooth without buffing. This clearcoat can be sanded within 8 hours of painting and should be sanded and buffed within 72 hours but no later than 7 days. If you wait more than 7 days, the paint gets so tough that it is near impossible to get all the sanding scratches back out when buffing. All masking paper should be removed after about 2 hours. Waiting any longer may let the paint get too hard and cause it to chip at the edges where the tape is. When painting 2 colors such as the rocker panels, the masking is applied directly over the previous color coat. Wait about an hour for the previous color coat to dry and then mask off for the second color. Be careful peeling tape back off so as to not pull away any of the fresh color. This is one reason why only good quality 3M painters tape should be used. It is also advisable to use "Fine Line" tape at the paint edge. This will make a finer edge where the two colors meet. Fine line tape also will bend in curves easier than masking tape. This is the stuff those guys use to paint those wild flames on cars. Sanding clear coat is similar to sanding the 400 grit of the primer just before the painting of color. Use the palm of your hand with either 1000 or 1200 grit paper and water. Work in circles and sand until all gloss from the paint is gone. You will see specks of gloss disappear as you sand out the rough areas. If you don't sand enough you will still see it as rough when done buffing. Be careful on edges so you don't sand through. Often I don't even sand the edges of the paint for this reason. You have to be very careful buffing. A power buffer can burn paint if worked too long or fast, or can cut right through edges. Use a cloth pad on a variable speed 0-2500 rpm buffer. Apply power buffing compound to the car in a small, 2by2 area. Run the buffer slow as it will go and work with medium pressure over the area until the compound starts to dry. As it is drying, increase speed to 1500 rpm and use light pressure buffing the paint to a gloss. Often it takes doing this 2 or 3 times to remove all the sanding scratches. You will still see marks from the buffer so don't confuse them with sanding marks. When getting close to an edge, always make the buffer wheel roll "off" the edge and not onto it. Tilt the buffer if necessary. A buffing wheel running onto an edge will rip right through paint. If the buffer is not working the finish up to a shine then the pad needs cleaned. Hood the buffer running and use a screwdriver to scrape away at the pad gently to remove the polish buildup. Be careful not dig into the pad or rip the screwdriver out of your hands. Do this to the entire car. Wipe the car off with a clean cloth. Change the wheel to a Foam pad. Use the Foam pad compound for the color of the car. Compounds are made for light and dark colors. Work this pad similar to the cloth wheel. This pad will remove all swirl marks from the cloth pad. Again wipe off the car with a dry clean cloth. It should now be looking pretty good. As a final finish, apply some type of professional finish enhancer. I prefer to not use any wax that contains silicone as it builds up on the paint. Eagle 1 carnuba was is pretty good and smells kinda neat too. It is the stuff Reces Pieces candy is shined up with. Don't believe me? Look in the ingredient list. You now have a 95 to 100 point paint finish. In summary: For a professional working 8 hours a day: 1 to 2 days to strip car of parts and paint. 1 day to weld up holes 2 days to apply filler and smooth (1 day for most guys) 2 days to apply and sand primer (1 day for most guys) 1 day to apply finish 1 to 2 days to sand and buff. Total: 10 days at $40 per hour = $2400 labor + $1000 materials = $3500 for a show car finish. Some well talented people are faster. This gives you my 4 weeks working 4 hours per day. So that is all it takes now days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slick Posted November 18, 2003 Author Report Share Posted November 18, 2003 Ok, i posted it. This is info i got from Intlcutlass: I make little "How to" sheets for myself, by cutting and pasting peoples comments & suggestions into a work doc. Here is that doc, pick out what you like. There have been several people out there who have expressed concern over the quality of my paint job only taking 4 weeks. Most say that is should take much longer for a quality job. If you add up the hours I actually spend on the car, it would make it take just over 2 weeks working full time. This equates to $3500 labor and $1000 in materials. Which is a reasonable price for a quality paint job. Most repaints around here will cost $2500 for a basic quality job, and $1500 for a good job. I am not as speedy as most professionals so it takes me a bit longer. Since there has bees some doubt, I thought I would explain the paint process for a show car finish. One thing to keep in mind is painting technology has increased tremendously over the past 10 years and new paint is far superior to the old stuff. The first thing you must do is strip the car. Decide how much of the car to take apart and how far you will go. The best paint jobs have all the old paint removed and all moldings, trim, bumpers etc. removed. There is no need to remove suspension, engine, interior or anything else as these items are easily masked off. If you do the total restoration then you would be stripping the whole car to the shell, but for just an external paint job it is not necessary. Strip the car in what ever means you want. Chemical strippers do a nice job, but require careful washing of the car to remove all residue and they make a mess on the floor. Any small amount of stripper left in some corner can ruin a paint job. And besides they are smelly and burn the skin. Also, strippers will damage any plastic filler so all filler must be removed and replaced. The alternative is to use abrasives to strip the car. Using a 9 inch sander with 24 or 36 grit paper, you sand until you see metal. If the paint job was an old lacquer job or used lacquer primer, then a razor blade may be used to remove the top layers. This method will remove some filler as you hit it so you must be careful. Once you hit metal use an 80 grit to rough up the metal for better paint adhesion no matter what stripping method you use. If filler is over 10 years old, or from an unknown paint job, then it should be removed and replaced. Either use the 9 inch random orbit sander or a knotted wire brush on a 4-1/2 inch angle grinder. I prefer the wire brush. There are some more exotic methods if paint removal if you have the finances. Media blasting with Walnut shells or Dry ice pellets works well but is not recommended unless you are doing a total strip of the car. NEVER sand blast a car body. The sand acts as a peen (this is how they shot peen rods) and will make body panels look like the ocean in a hurricane. You can also acid dip the car which will remove all rust and paint, but the car must be entirely stripped. After you have the car stripped, then the metal work begins. Small dents can be worked out by using a hammer and dolly or a semi pointed probe worked across the metal on the back side. I worked out several small dents this way and did not have to use any filler at all in those places. Larger dents have to be banged out using the hammer and dolly the best as can be done. Unless you are an artesian then you will have to use filler on large dents. Be sure to not have any high places in the metal or you will have a bump in the final paint finish that cannot be sanded down. Often high areas can be "shrunk" by using a pick hammer with a dolly in the back side. What you do is exchange the large dent or bump for a whole bunch of small bumps that are easier to fill and cover. Lightly just tap over that rise area working from the edges to the center and the bump will slowly disappears. This may take some practice to get good at. If you drill holes to pull out a dent, then you must weld up the holes when done to prevent moisture from getting to the back side of the filler material through the holes. There is only one way to fix rust. Cut it out and remove it and weld in new metal. Completely remove all rusty metal from the car, don't cover any up or the rust will grow. I use a Plasma cutter to cut the metal but quality tin-snips or a nibbler will work just fine. If your car has some surface rust than this is OK as the paint will completely seal it and prevent it from growing further. Cut a piece if 18 gauge metal to cover your rusted area that is about 1/4 inch larger than the hole. This metal should be a plain steel and not have any coating such as galvanized. The base metal should also be very clean for at least an inch away from the weld. Use wire brush or sander to clean. As an option, you can add a depression to the body metal for the patch to set in. A tool is made to do this but car must be used. This tool only makes 3/4 inch long ridges at one time and can cause some warping of the metal around the patch area. The new metal must be completely welded in using a good mig welder. Low current 110 welders just don't do the job with the exception of the Lincoln SP100 or SP125. I use a 200 Amp Century. Turn the welder up to a voltage that would normally melt holes in the metal if welded continuously. Then tack the metal in place using short bursts of weld (1 second) about every 4 inches around the patch. NEVER try to push the metal in place while welding. The metal should fit the contour of the body naturally with only a very slight pressure needed to hold the pieces together. If you press hard while welding then you add stresses to the patch and will cause warpage in the welding process. Once the piece is in place you can start welding it solid. This is very important to do slowly. Weld in about 1/4 to 1/2 inch strips around the patch with one hand on the surrounding metal about 3 inches away. Each weld spot should spaced apart around the patch area. You keep doing this until you fill all the gap in. If the surrounding metal gets too hot to hold you hand on then quit till you can lay your hand over the area that is being welded. This process may take 20 minutes for a 6 by 6 patch area. If you rush the welding then the metal gets too hot and warps. Sheet metal under about 12 gauge is made by a cold rolling process. This process puts stresses in the metal that are released in the welding process which will cause warpage. Keeping the head down reduces this possibility. The weld should be continuous and not just spotted. Moisture can come in from the back side and cause rust to grow under the filler material and cause the filler to lift off. Grind the weld lightly when done to reduce any high spots in the weld. Before applying filler, rough up the metal with a 24 grit disk on a 7 inch grinder so the filler has something to stick to. You may also want to use the pick hammer and slightly dent the metal in around the weld area so that less filler is needed to cover up the patch. For surface rust in areas like the floor board where is has gotten deep or has some Swiss cheese type holes less than the size of a pencil, then an alternate to welding can be done. Use a wire brush to remove all loose scale and sand away paint from the surrounding area for about 6 inches. Clean up all dust with a vacuume. Apply POR15 metal prep to the area to etch the new metal that is not rusted. POR15 will not stick to clean metal unless chemically etched. But it sticks very well to rust. Apply a heavy coat of POR15 paint over the entire area. Lay a layer of fiberglass cloth over the rusted area and coat with another heavy coat of POR15. After the paint is dry to the touch, add another coat and a layer of slightly smaller fiberglass cloth. After it has dried to the touch then add 2 more coats of POR15 alone waiting till the paint has dried to the touch between each coat. POR15 is an amazing paint. It does not ever fully get hard. It dries faster when it is damp out. It will not lift with the formation of rust like normal paint will, and is so strong that you will NEVER be able to peel that fiberglass cloth off again. The patch will be nearly as strong as the original metal. The stuff is not really paint, but they call it paint for lack of a better word. You can also use it for areas of heavy rust on the body that has not gone completely through. Simply paint a couple of coats over rusted metal before filling and painting. If you are going to top coat the POR15 then you need to spray a light coat of primer on it before it completely dries or sand it so the top coats will stick. You don't need the fiberglass cloth on an area that does not have holes through. I also recommend using it on any are under fenders where rust is on the back side and over the back side of the welded in patches. POR15 is not the same type of product as those rust converters like "Extend". It does not convert the rust, but covers it up preventing moisture from getting to the rust stopping any further growth. OH, and one other point, Wear plastic gloves. POR15 sticks to skin like crazy glue. If it dries on your hands you will wear it for about 2 weeks. I tried Acetone, Xylene, Toluene, Methel-ethel keytone, Tricholrethene, gasoline, Alcohol, Lacquer thinner, Carb cleaner, Brake cleaner with Hexane, Sand paper, and soap to get it off and nothing works. Now that all the metal is fixed we need to make the car smooth. There is no need to use lead as filler. Modern plastic fillers will last just as long as the paint job and are easier to work with. Besides, lead is toxic and hard to find at times, hard to apply, hard to sand, and the acid flux used can cause corrosion and paint problems. There are several types of plastic filler. Fillers with Fiberglass threads such as "Everglass" are for filling areas over 1/4 inch deep. These fillers do not crack when used for deep fill. Regular plastic fillers such as Marhide "Golden Extra" is the general purpose filler used to fill most dents and patches. Some special fillers such as "Metal-to-Metal" are used in areas that may be susceptible to cracking. These fillers are more flexible to resist the cracking. There is also a fine fill Polyester glazing filler to fill small imperfections and spots left from sanding or hail damage. These fillers are made to be used either under or over paint and are the only type made to do so. They should not be used in fill depths of more than 1/16th of an inch. The generic "Bondo" brand filler is of OK quality, but is hard to sand. You will find the Filler material you get at the paint store is not any higher priced than the Kmart Bondo but is far superior in quality and sandability. Applying filler can be somewhat of an art in itself. Mix up slightly more than what you will need. (this takes practice to estimate). Once mixed properly, you will have about 3 to 5 minutes to work with the filler before it starts to harden. Too much hardener will cause it to harden while mixing or if you can get it on the car, it will possibly crack when if cures because it hardened too fast. To little hardener will make it take for ever to harden or might not harden at all. As a rule, a cup full of filler uses about a half tablespoon of hardener. When mixed properly, it will get unworkable in 5 minutes, then be sandable in 12 to 15 minutes and totally hard after about 2 hours. It is chemically hardened and does not require any time to breathe. Cover the entire area being filled past the edges of what you think you will need. Once the area is covered work the filler from the edges to the center using the plastic scraper tool getting it as smooth as possible to the final contour. Once sandable, use a 9 inch random orbit sander with 36 grit paper and work down the filler to the desired contour holding the sander almost totally flat to the metal. If you desire, you can stop slightly before the final height and use an air file and 80 grit paper. Work the air file in random directions to prevent cutting too much in one area. For some tight or rounded areas you might also use a DA sander with 80 grit paper. Never use finer than 80 grit paper sanding filler. It will take too long and the longer it takes the more ripples you will get in the filler. Trying to sand the filler perfectly smooth takes bunches of time to get it smooth and not get ripples. Don't worry about the deep sanding marks in the filler, as the primer will take care of them. If you have to apply a second coat, then the second coat should cover the entire area and not just the low spots. If you cover just low spots then when you sand the new filler, you will sand some of the previous coat making new low spots. Trust me on this one, I learned the hard way. Another thing to remember about painting, you can see low spots but not high spots in the finish. Therefor leave any filler slightly high and don't have a low spot. I learned this the hard way also. It takes some practice, but filler can be easy to apply and sand quickly. Unless it is a corner of edge, don't ever sand filler by hand or with a small sanding block. Your hand motion will put ripples in the filler that will show up in the paint. To see how you are doing, hold your palm flat over a piece of paper towel. Rub your flat palm (and the towel) over the area you are working on while looking away or closing your eyes. You will then "feel" the high and low spots that need attention. The whole art of body work takes some practice to be good and fast. The guy that taught me can fill a dent in a door in one coat of filler and it only take him 15 minutes. That is about all I will say about filler as saying any more might require a book to get all the information across. Note: In the following procedures for painting, several precautions must be taken. All the paints used are chemically activated and cured. If you do not clean your paint gun at once, you will be buying a new one. The paint will cure in the gun in a short time. I actually had the primer setting up before I could get it all sprayed on. These new paints are also more hazardous than the old lacquers and enamels. A dust mask is not sufficient. At the minimum you should use a paint spray respirator. If you are sensitive to chemicals or have some breathing problems like ahsma, then you need to wear a air supplied respirator. This is the type where a pump sits out side and pumps fresh air in to you. You could alternately wear a scuba or firefighters air tank. These new paints are absorbed through the skin and in reality, you should wear one of those white painters suits when spraying paint. The most absorbed area for paint is the eyes. Those little swimming pool eye covers work well if you do not have a full face respirator. For most people, the exposure is low enough for a single paint job, that the respirator is good enough, but it depends on the persons system. It doesn't seem to bother me, but my father can get sick standing outside the door watching me. Use your own good judgment. Also modern paints no longer have mixing instructions. You have to get the separate instructions from the paint store. It is one way the government is trying to persuade non professionals to not paint their own cars. For painting you will need a paint gun. I use a Devilbis GFG517 which is a normal flow gravity feed paint gun. The old suction feed guns are almost useless with today's paints. They are just too thick and heavy to spray out of a suction feed gun. HVLP guns may be used if you wish, but I don't like them. They put the paint out in a rough finish in anticipation of using a baking oven to make the finish smooth out. Once all low areas are filled then we are ready to start painting. First we need to cover up the bare metal to protect it. Mask all areas and openings off with masking paper and quality 3M masking tape. Don't use news paper as paint will actually soak through the paper making a mess of what is underneath. I use Ditzler DP40 epoxy primer. It mixes 1:1 with the DP402 catylist. You could also use Dupont Variprime acid primer. Give the metal 2 good wet coats allowing the paint to flash (gloss is gone) between coats. You should even cover the plastic filler. The DP primer should be top coated with the next primer stage within 24 hours and no longer than 7 days. DP primer causes a chemical adhesion to the next coat and the chemical reaction has ran out after 7 days and would require sanding for proper paint bonding. I usually wait about an hour and apply the primer. For primer I use Ditzler K36 Prima Urethane primer. You could also use Dupont Uro-prime. It is as high a quality as the clear coat that you will use and is a high solids paint. Mix it with 5 parts K36, 1 part DU4 hardener, and 1 part DT860 reducer. Apply 2 to 3 heavy coats letting each coat flash before applying the next. Let paint sit at least 2 hours and preferably overnight before sanding. Where most of the time came from the paint jobs of olden days was waiting on the lacquer primers to dry. To prevent shrinkage of primer you would have to wait about a week between sandings with lacquer to allow the reducer to completely evaporate. Plus the old lacquers were not high build, forcing you to apply more coats and sand more times. The only good Lacquer primer is the Ditzler Kondar primer which is a high build and will dry in about 3 days. But lacquer should not be used with modern top coats as they may react and reduce paint life. The new Urethane primers are chemically hardened and require very little drying time. When sanding primer, apply a light mist of some dark color from a spray can of lacquer. This is called a "tracer". It is your guide to sanding the paint. This procedure is called "Block" sanding. Use 180 grit paper to sand the first coat of primer. You may think this funny, but use a 3 by 3 inch piece of Styrofoam about 12 inches long to sand with by hand with sticky back 180 grit paper. The Styrofoam is straight, fairly solid, and has just enough give to not dig in. By hand you will work the foam in diagonal strokes trying to keep the sanding stroke at least 12 inches or more. Work it in many different directions while sanding to prevent cutting lines in the primer. You can also use the air file to sand the primer with a 180 grit paper. Work the air file in a slow motion across the paint changing directions often. For rounded areas, use a foam sanding block or the palm of your hand. Avoid using fingers to sand, but rather use the whole palm. If you sand with fingers you will cut little groves that you will see in the paint later. When sanding with a small block or by hand use rapid motion with very light pressure for best results. What we are looking for when sanding the primer is the removal of all the tracer coat. Once all evidence of the tracer coat is gone, then we can stop sanding. Just like the filler, the more we sand, the more likely we are to get waves in the paint. As you sand over the filled area, you will slowly see the those massive sanding scratches go away. If while sanding, you reach primer or metal before all the tracer coat is gone, then stop sanding there as you will need to add more tracer coat. If you have an area that is real low or you have some "chip" spots then these can be filled with the polyester filler I mentioned earlier. Just mix and use as little as possible for the fill. Sand the filler with 80 grit using the 9 inch random orbit sander, the DA or the Air file. Once the primer is done with 180 grit, add more primer. If you still had tracer paint or you had to add more filler, then apply 2 heavy coats. Wipe of blow off all dust before applying the next coat of paint. Just like the filler, paint the entire car again and not just small areas, although you can actually apply the paint a little heavier in the areas that you know are low. Repeat till you have no tracer showing. If you have no more tracer showing, then apply 1 heavy coat. When dry, sand with 400 grit paper by bare hand using water. Use 600 grit if you plan to paint with a metallic color. You will again want to use a tracer coat for sanding and sand till all tracer is gone. You should now have a very smooth car ready for final paint. Remove all the masking paper from the car. You will have to add new stuff for the final paint. Dust in the old paper can get in the paint and ruin a paint job. Using an air hose, wipe the paint off with a rag while blowing the dust you are wiping away. If you wash the car with water, make sure it has a couple hours to dry before painting. It will take you some time to mask it off anyway. Use the air hose to blow air in all areas of the car. The head lamp doors, under the fenders, the cowl vents, everywhere. Go around the car about 5 times blowing it off. If some dust is left in a crevice some where, odds are it will end up in the paint. Once you are done blowing all the dust off the car, reapply the masking paper. Paint in a well ventilated area. If in a building, then there should be a powerful fan blowing the paint fumes out with an opening on the opposite end to let fresh air in. Let this fan run while blowing off the car and for about 1/2 hour after to suck all the dust that is airborne out. Now is the only time to sweep the floor. From now on out, you do not sweep the floor till done. If it is a calm clear day, you can even paint out side. But any dust kicked up and carried by the wind will get in the paint. Once everything is clean and the car is masked off, wet the floor well with water. This keeps dust that is on the floor on the floor. If the floor dries out it is OK because the water makes it stick to the floor even after dry kind of like dust sticks to the car after it rains, i.e. rainspots. Just before getting ready to paint, wipe the car down with a tack cloth. Unfold the cloth and use very light rapid wiping. Pressing too hard will make some of the stuff in the tack cloth stick to the car which can mess up the paint job. With our fan running and respirator on, apply 2 light to medium coats of DP40 epoxy primer as a paint sealer. You cannot use the Dupont Variprime as a sealer. If you desire the DP40 can be thinned with up to 100% DT860 or 870 reducer to make is easier to spray. If you do reduce it, then you will have to wait a couple of hours before applying the color. Non reduced you can topcoat in about 30 minutes. If you are using a dark colored paint, then you may want to use the DP red (#74) or Black (#50?) instead of the #40 grey-green. No sanding is necessary before applying the color coat. You have several options of top coat. The oldest is Lacquer. Lacquer was once the paint of choice for show cars because it went on easily and could be buffed to an incredible shine. However, about 1980 they took the lead out of automotive paint and Lacquer has not been worth a C*** ever since. Up into the 80s GM cars were painted with non clearcoat lacquer. That is why some of those mid 80s GMs peel and flake so bad. You can still use it but it will not hold a shine very well and will tend to crack an cobweb easily with time. Most lacquer finishes are clear coated but don't have to be. For lacquer, you apply color till "hiding" is achieved, usually about 3 medium coats. Then clear is added. Lacquer is thinned with the appropriate temperature thinner at 100 to 150% ratio. For non sanding applications, use about 3 coats of clear. If you plan to sand the clear and buff it, then apply 6 coats as you will sand 3 of them back off. Apply the paint "wet" and overlap each pass 50% for best results. Don't be afraid to lay the paint on heavy. If you paint too slow, they you will see dull spots and roughness or "orange peel". For lacquer you will have to wait about a month before sanding and buffing. The next paint of generations is Enamel. For enamel to work properly, it must have a hardener added. This hardener will add some hazards to the paint above that of just the Enamel itself. If hardener is not used, then the Enamel will takes weeks to get really hard and the whole time it will be very easy to scratch. Enamel should not be sanded and buffed. Doing so will actually reduce the shine and the life of the paint. Enamel is applied in about 3 to 4 medium coats thinned with the appropriate temperature reducer at about 100%. Next came Urethane single stage paint. One of the earliest of this is Dupont Imron. This paint is mixed with a hardener and reducer just like the primer. It is applied in the same manner as Enamel. However, this paint may be sanded and buffed if desired. If you plan to sand and buff, then use 5 coats instead of 3. This is good paint for doing under fenders, in the engine bay, and suspension parts as it will shine well with little waxing and does not need to be buffed. By far the best top coating is the Basecoat-clearcoat. There have been several varieties in the past. One of the best is either the dupont Chroma base or the Ditzler Concept 2000. I painted my car with the concept 2002 clear and DBC basecoat. For the Ditzler, mix the basecoat 100% with DT 860 or 870 reducer. Apply 2 to 3 wet coats. This paint will cover fast. It will spray with the look of cottage cheese but will smooth out as it dries. Too dry of coat and it will not smooth out. Too wet of coat and you will get some runs like I did. If you get runs in the base coat, then let it dry about an hour and sand with water and 1000 grit paper. You can then apply a little more color to the area where the run is. Since the basecoat is not really a hardened paint, you can spray in a little area and it will mix in. As a matter of fact, you can just spray DT reducer over the area and the run sometimes will just melt away. The Base coat is very fragile and even after a week can be just wiped off with a rag of reducer. It requires the chemicals in the Urethane to make it harden. Therefore, the base coat is not sanded prior to clear coating. Once the base coat has flashed off, mix up some Clear and get ready to spray. For the Concept 2002, mix clear at 5 parts, DXF11 hardener at 5 parts and DT reducer at 1 part. It took me about 2 and a half quarts of clear for the whole car. Spray clear with 2 very heavy coats letting it dry to the touch between each coat. This clear is applied to just before the point of running. It may appear a little rough in appearance, but you will be sanding it out. The paint will look like cottage cheese as it is sprayed but within a minute will level out. For optimal results, after the car is painted, it is baked at 160 degrees for about 4 hours. Doing so will cause the paint to "float" out and get extremely smooth. This is the way the big paint shops get all the orange peel out of the paint that is caused by the HVLP guns. It is also the way the new car makers are getting the new car paint jobs so smooth without buffing. This clearcoat can be sanded within 8 hours of painting and should be sanded and buffed within 72 hours but no later than 7 days. If you wait more than 7 days, the paint gets so tough that it is near impossible to get all the sanding scratches back out when buffing. All masking paper should be removed after about 2 hours. Waiting any longer may let the paint get too hard and cause it to chip at the edges where the tape is. When painting 2 colors such as the rocker panels, the masking is applied directly over the previous color coat. Wait about an hour for the previous color coat to dry and then mask off for the second color. Be careful peeling tape back off so as to not pull away any of the fresh color. This is one reason why only good quality 3M painters tape should be used. It is also advisable to use "Fine Line" tape at the paint edge. This will make a finer edge where the two colors meet. Fine line tape also will bend in curves easier than masking tape. This is the stuff those guys use to paint those wild flames on cars. Sanding clear coat is similar to sanding the 400 grit of the primer just before the painting of color. Use the palm of your hand with either 1000 or 1200 grit paper and water. Work in circles and sand until all gloss from the paint is gone. You will see specks of gloss disappear as you sand out the rough areas. If you don't sand enough you will still see it as rough when done buffing. Be careful on edges so you don't sand through. Often I don't even sand the edges of the paint for this reason. You have to be very careful buffing. A power buffer can burn paint if worked too long or fast, or can cut right through edges. Use a cloth pad on a variable speed 0-2500 rpm buffer. Apply power buffing compound to the car in a small, 2by2 area. Run the buffer slow as it will go and work with medium pressure over the area until the compound starts to dry. As it is drying, increase speed to 1500 rpm and use light pressure buffing the paint to a gloss. Often it takes doing this 2 or 3 times to remove all the sanding scratches. You will still see marks from the buffer so don't confuse them with sanding marks. When getting close to an edge, always make the buffer wheel roll "off" the edge and not onto it. Tilt the buffer if necessary. A buffing wheel running onto an edge will rip right through paint. If the buffer is not working the finish up to a shine then the pad needs cleaned. Hood the buffer running and use a screwdriver to scrape away at the pad gently to remove the polish buildup. Be careful not dig into the pad or rip the screwdriver out of your hands. Do this to the entire car. Wipe the car off with a clean cloth. Change the wheel to a Foam pad. Use the Foam pad compound for the color of the car. Compounds are made for light and dark colors. Work this pad similar to the cloth wheel. This pad will remove all swirl marks from the cloth pad. Again wipe off the car with a dry clean cloth. It should now be looking pretty good. As a final finish, apply some type of professional finish enhancer. I prefer to not use any wax that contains silicone as it builds up on the paint. Eagle 1 carnuba was is pretty good and smells kinda neat too. It is the stuff Reces Pieces candy is shined up with. Don't believe me? Look in the ingredient list. You now have a 95 to 100 point paint finish. In summary: For a professional working 8 hours a day: 1 to 2 days to strip car of parts and paint. 1 day to weld up holes 2 days to apply filler and smooth (1 day for most guys) 2 days to apply and sand primer (1 day for most guys) 1 day to apply finish 1 to 2 days to sand and buff. Total: 10 days at $40 per hour = $2400 labor + $1000 materials = $3500 for a show car finish. Some well talented people are faster. This gives you my 4 weeks working 4 hours per day. So that is all it takes now days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slick Posted November 18, 2003 Author Report Share Posted November 18, 2003 Ok, i posted it. This is info i got from Intlcutlass: I make little "How to" sheets for myself, by cutting and pasting peoples comments & suggestions into a work doc. Here is that doc, pick out what you like. There have been several people out there who have expressed concern over the quality of my paint job only taking 4 weeks. Most say that is should take much longer for a quality job. If you add up the hours I actually spend on the car, it would make it take just over 2 weeks working full time. This equates to $3500 labor and $1000 in materials. Which is a reasonable price for a quality paint job. Most repaints around here will cost $2500 for a basic quality job, and $1500 for a good job. I am not as speedy as most professionals so it takes me a bit longer. Since there has bees some doubt, I thought I would explain the paint process for a show car finish. One thing to keep in mind is painting technology has increased tremendously over the past 10 years and new paint is far superior to the old stuff. The first thing you must do is strip the car. Decide how much of the car to take apart and how far you will go. The best paint jobs have all the old paint removed and all moldings, trim, bumpers etc. removed. There is no need to remove suspension, engine, interior or anything else as these items are easily masked off. If you do the total restoration then you would be stripping the whole car to the shell, but for just an external paint job it is not necessary. Strip the car in what ever means you want. Chemical strippers do a nice job, but require careful washing of the car to remove all residue and they make a mess on the floor. Any small amount of stripper left in some corner can ruin a paint job. And besides they are smelly and burn the skin. Also, strippers will damage any plastic filler so all filler must be removed and replaced. The alternative is to use abrasives to strip the car. Using a 9 inch sander with 24 or 36 grit paper, you sand until you see metal. If the paint job was an old lacquer job or used lacquer primer, then a razor blade may be used to remove the top layers. This method will remove some filler as you hit it so you must be careful. Once you hit metal use an 80 grit to rough up the metal for better paint adhesion no matter what stripping method you use. If filler is over 10 years old, or from an unknown paint job, then it should be removed and replaced. Either use the 9 inch random orbit sander or a knotted wire brush on a 4-1/2 inch angle grinder. I prefer the wire brush. There are some more exotic methods if paint removal if you have the finances. Media blasting with Walnut shells or Dry ice pellets works well but is not recommended unless you are doing a total strip of the car. NEVER sand blast a car body. The sand acts as a peen (this is how they shot peen rods) and will make body panels look like the ocean in a hurricane. You can also acid dip the car which will remove all rust and paint, but the car must be entirely stripped. After you have the car stripped, then the metal work begins. Small dents can be worked out by using a hammer and dolly or a semi pointed probe worked across the metal on the back side. I worked out several small dents this way and did not have to use any filler at all in those places. Larger dents have to be banged out using the hammer and dolly the best as can be done. Unless you are an artesian then you will have to use filler on large dents. Be sure to not have any high places in the metal or you will have a bump in the final paint finish that cannot be sanded down. Often high areas can be "shrunk" by using a pick hammer with a dolly in the back side. What you do is exchange the large dent or bump for a whole bunch of small bumps that are easier to fill and cover. Lightly just tap over that rise area working from the edges to the center and the bump will slowly disappears. This may take some practice to get good at. If you drill holes to pull out a dent, then you must weld up the holes when done to prevent moisture from getting to the back side of the filler material through the holes. There is only one way to fix rust. Cut it out and remove it and weld in new metal. Completely remove all rusty metal from the car, don't cover any up or the rust will grow. I use a Plasma cutter to cut the metal but quality tin-snips or a nibbler will work just fine. If your car has some surface rust than this is OK as the paint will completely seal it and prevent it from growing further. Cut a piece if 18 gauge metal to cover your rusted area that is about 1/4 inch larger than the hole. This metal should be a plain steel and not have any coating such as galvanized. The base metal should also be very clean for at least an inch away from the weld. Use wire brush or sander to clean. As an option, you can add a depression to the body metal for the patch to set in. A tool is made to do this but car must be used. This tool only makes 3/4 inch long ridges at one time and can cause some warping of the metal around the patch area. The new metal must be completely welded in using a good mig welder. Low current 110 welders just don't do the job with the exception of the Lincoln SP100 or SP125. I use a 200 Amp Century. Turn the welder up to a voltage that would normally melt holes in the metal if welded continuously. Then tack the metal in place using short bursts of weld (1 second) about every 4 inches around the patch. NEVER try to push the metal in place while welding. The metal should fit the contour of the body naturally with only a very slight pressure needed to hold the pieces together. If you press hard while welding then you add stresses to the patch and will cause warpage in the welding process. Once the piece is in place you can start welding it solid. This is very important to do slowly. Weld in about 1/4 to 1/2 inch strips around the patch with one hand on the surrounding metal about 3 inches away. Each weld spot should spaced apart around the patch area. You keep doing this until you fill all the gap in. If the surrounding metal gets too hot to hold you hand on then quit till you can lay your hand over the area that is being welded. This process may take 20 minutes for a 6 by 6 patch area. If you rush the welding then the metal gets too hot and warps. Sheet metal under about 12 gauge is made by a cold rolling process. This process puts stresses in the metal that are released in the welding process which will cause warpage. Keeping the head down reduces this possibility. The weld should be continuous and not just spotted. Moisture can come in from the back side and cause rust to grow under the filler material and cause the filler to lift off. Grind the weld lightly when done to reduce any high spots in the weld. Before applying filler, rough up the metal with a 24 grit disk on a 7 inch grinder so the filler has something to stick to. You may also want to use the pick hammer and slightly dent the metal in around the weld area so that less filler is needed to cover up the patch. For surface rust in areas like the floor board where is has gotten deep or has some Swiss cheese type holes less than the size of a pencil, then an alternate to welding can be done. Use a wire brush to remove all loose scale and sand away paint from the surrounding area for about 6 inches. Clean up all dust with a vacuume. Apply POR15 metal prep to the area to etch the new metal that is not rusted. POR15 will not stick to clean metal unless chemically etched. But it sticks very well to rust. Apply a heavy coat of POR15 paint over the entire area. Lay a layer of fiberglass cloth over the rusted area and coat with another heavy coat of POR15. After the paint is dry to the touch, add another coat and a layer of slightly smaller fiberglass cloth. After it has dried to the touch then add 2 more coats of POR15 alone waiting till the paint has dried to the touch between each coat. POR15 is an amazing paint. It does not ever fully get hard. It dries faster when it is damp out. It will not lift with the formation of rust like normal paint will, and is so strong that you will NEVER be able to peel that fiberglass cloth off again. The patch will be nearly as strong as the original metal. The stuff is not really paint, but they call it paint for lack of a better word. You can also use it for areas of heavy rust on the body that has not gone completely through. Simply paint a couple of coats over rusted metal before filling and painting. If you are going to top coat the POR15 then you need to spray a light coat of primer on it before it completely dries or sand it so the top coats will stick. You don't need the fiberglass cloth on an area that does not have holes through. I also recommend using it on any are under fenders where rust is on the back side and over the back side of the welded in patches. POR15 is not the same type of product as those rust converters like "Extend". It does not convert the rust, but covers it up preventing moisture from getting to the rust stopping any further growth. OH, and one other point, Wear plastic gloves. POR15 sticks to skin like crazy glue. If it dries on your hands you will wear it for about 2 weeks. I tried Acetone, Xylene, Toluene, Methel-ethel keytone, Tricholrethene, gasoline, Alcohol, Lacquer thinner, Carb cleaner, Brake cleaner with Hexane, Sand paper, and soap to get it off and nothing works. Now that all the metal is fixed we need to make the car smooth. There is no need to use lead as filler. Modern plastic fillers will last just as long as the paint job and are easier to work with. Besides, lead is toxic and hard to find at times, hard to apply, hard to sand, and the acid flux used can cause corrosion and paint problems. There are several types of plastic filler. Fillers with Fiberglass threads such as "Everglass" are for filling areas over 1/4 inch deep. These fillers do not crack when used for deep fill. Regular plastic fillers such as Marhide "Golden Extra" is the general purpose filler used to fill most dents and patches. Some special fillers such as "Metal-to-Metal" are used in areas that may be susceptible to cracking. These fillers are more flexible to resist the cracking. There is also a fine fill Polyester glazing filler to fill small imperfections and spots left from sanding or hail damage. These fillers are made to be used either under or over paint and are the only type made to do so. They should not be used in fill depths of more than 1/16th of an inch. The generic "Bondo" brand filler is of OK quality, but is hard to sand. You will find the Filler material you get at the paint store is not any higher priced than the Kmart Bondo but is far superior in quality and sandability. Applying filler can be somewhat of an art in itself. Mix up slightly more than what you will need. (this takes practice to estimate). Once mixed properly, you will have about 3 to 5 minutes to work with the filler before it starts to harden. Too much hardener will cause it to harden while mixing or if you can get it on the car, it will possibly crack when if cures because it hardened too fast. To little hardener will make it take for ever to harden or might not harden at all. As a rule, a cup full of filler uses about a half tablespoon of hardener. When mixed properly, it will get unworkable in 5 minutes, then be sandable in 12 to 15 minutes and totally hard after about 2 hours. It is chemically hardened and does not require any time to breathe. Cover the entire area being filled past the edges of what you think you will need. Once the area is covered work the filler from the edges to the center using the plastic scraper tool getting it as smooth as possible to the final contour. Once sandable, use a 9 inch random orbit sander with 36 grit paper and work down the filler to the desired contour holding the sander almost totally flat to the metal. If you desire, you can stop slightly before the final height and use an air file and 80 grit paper. Work the air file in random directions to prevent cutting too much in one area. For some tight or rounded areas you might also use a DA sander with 80 grit paper. Never use finer than 80 grit paper sanding filler. It will take too long and the longer it takes the more ripples you will get in the filler. Trying to sand the filler perfectly smooth takes bunches of time to get it smooth and not get ripples. Don't worry about the deep sanding marks in the filler, as the primer will take care of them. If you have to apply a second coat, then the second coat should cover the entire area and not just the low spots. If you cover just low spots then when you sand the new filler, you will sand some of the previous coat making new low spots. Trust me on this one, I learned the hard way. Another thing to remember about painting, you can see low spots but not high spots in the finish. Therefor leave any filler slightly high and don't have a low spot. I learned this the hard way also. It takes some practice, but filler can be easy to apply and sand quickly. Unless it is a corner of edge, don't ever sand filler by hand or with a small sanding block. Your hand motion will put ripples in the filler that will show up in the paint. To see how you are doing, hold your palm flat over a piece of paper towel. Rub your flat palm (and the towel) over the area you are working on while looking away or closing your eyes. You will then "feel" the high and low spots that need attention. The whole art of body work takes some practice to be good and fast. The guy that taught me can fill a dent in a door in one coat of filler and it only take him 15 minutes. That is about all I will say about filler as saying any more might require a book to get all the information across. Note: In the following procedures for painting, several precautions must be taken. All the paints used are chemically activated and cured. If you do not clean your paint gun at once, you will be buying a new one. The paint will cure in the gun in a short time. I actually had the primer setting up before I could get it all sprayed on. These new paints are also more hazardous than the old lacquers and enamels. A dust mask is not sufficient. At the minimum you should use a paint spray respirator. If you are sensitive to chemicals or have some breathing problems like ahsma, then you need to wear a air supplied respirator. This is the type where a pump sits out side and pumps fresh air in to you. You could alternately wear a scuba or firefighters air tank. These new paints are absorbed through the skin and in reality, you should wear one of those white painters suits when spraying paint. The most absorbed area for paint is the eyes. Those little swimming pool eye covers work well if you do not have a full face respirator. For most people, the exposure is low enough for a single paint job, that the respirator is good enough, but it depends on the persons system. It doesn't seem to bother me, but my father can get sick standing outside the door watching me. Use your own good judgment. Also modern paints no longer have mixing instructions. You have to get the separate instructions from the paint store. It is one way the government is trying to persuade non professionals to not paint their own cars. For painting you will need a paint gun. I use a Devilbis GFG517 which is a normal flow gravity feed paint gun. The old suction feed guns are almost useless with today's paints. They are just too thick and heavy to spray out of a suction feed gun. HVLP guns may be used if you wish, but I don't like them. They put the paint out in a rough finish in anticipation of using a baking oven to make the finish smooth out. Once all low areas are filled then we are ready to start painting. First we need to cover up the bare metal to protect it. Mask all areas and openings off with masking paper and quality 3M masking tape. Don't use news paper as paint will actually soak through the paper making a mess of what is underneath. I use Ditzler DP40 epoxy primer. It mixes 1:1 with the DP402 catylist. You could also use Dupont Variprime acid primer. Give the metal 2 good wet coats allowing the paint to flash (gloss is gone) between coats. You should even cover the plastic filler. The DP primer should be top coated with the next primer stage within 24 hours and no longer than 7 days. DP primer causes a chemical adhesion to the next coat and the chemical reaction has ran out after 7 days and would require sanding for proper paint bonding. I usually wait about an hour and apply the primer. For primer I use Ditzler K36 Prima Urethane primer. You could also use Dupont Uro-prime. It is as high a quality as the clear coat that you will use and is a high solids paint. Mix it with 5 parts K36, 1 part DU4 hardener, and 1 part DT860 reducer. Apply 2 to 3 heavy coats letting each coat flash before applying the next. Let paint sit at least 2 hours and preferably overnight before sanding. Where most of the time came from the paint jobs of olden days was waiting on the lacquer primers to dry. To prevent shrinkage of primer you would have to wait about a week between sandings with lacquer to allow the reducer to completely evaporate. Plus the old lacquers were not high build, forcing you to apply more coats and sand more times. The only good Lacquer primer is the Ditzler Kondar primer which is a high build and will dry in about 3 days. But lacquer should not be used with modern top coats as they may react and reduce paint life. The new Urethane primers are chemically hardened and require very little drying time. When sanding primer, apply a light mist of some dark color from a spray can of lacquer. This is called a "tracer". It is your guide to sanding the paint. This procedure is called "Block" sanding. Use 180 grit paper to sand the first coat of primer. You may think this funny, but use a 3 by 3 inch piece of Styrofoam about 12 inches long to sand with by hand with sticky back 180 grit paper. The Styrofoam is straight, fairly solid, and has just enough give to not dig in. By hand you will work the foam in diagonal strokes trying to keep the sanding stroke at least 12 inches or more. Work it in many different directions while sanding to prevent cutting lines in the primer. You can also use the air file to sand the primer with a 180 grit paper. Work the air file in a slow motion across the paint changing directions often. For rounded areas, use a foam sanding block or the palm of your hand. Avoid using fingers to sand, but rather use the whole palm. If you sand with fingers you will cut little groves that you will see in the paint later. When sanding with a small block or by hand use rapid motion with very light pressure for best results. What we are looking for when sanding the primer is the removal of all the tracer coat. Once all evidence of the tracer coat is gone, then we can stop sanding. Just like the filler, the more we sand, the more likely we are to get waves in the paint. As you sand over the filled area, you will slowly see the those massive sanding scratches go away. If while sanding, you reach primer or metal before all the tracer coat is gone, then stop sanding there as you will need to add more tracer coat. If you have an area that is real low or you have some "chip" spots then these can be filled with the polyester filler I mentioned earlier. Just mix and use as little as possible for the fill. Sand the filler with 80 grit using the 9 inch random orbit sander, the DA or the Air file. Once the primer is done with 180 grit, add more primer. If you still had tracer paint or you had to add more filler, then apply 2 heavy coats. Wipe of blow off all dust before applying the next coat of paint. Just like the filler, paint the entire car again and not just small areas, although you can actually apply the paint a little heavier in the areas that you know are low. Repeat till you have no tracer showing. If you have no more tracer showing, then apply 1 heavy coat. When dry, sand with 400 grit paper by bare hand using water. Use 600 grit if you plan to paint with a metallic color. You will again want to use a tracer coat for sanding and sand till all tracer is gone. You should now have a very smooth car ready for final paint. Remove all the masking paper from the car. You will have to add new stuff for the final paint. Dust in the old paper can get in the paint and ruin a paint job. Using an air hose, wipe the paint off with a rag while blowing the dust you are wiping away. If you wash the car with water, make sure it has a couple hours to dry before painting. It will take you some time to mask it off anyway. Use the air hose to blow air in all areas of the car. The head lamp doors, under the fenders, the cowl vents, everywhere. Go around the car about 5 times blowing it off. If some dust is left in a crevice some where, odds are it will end up in the paint. Once you are done blowing all the dust off the car, reapply the masking paper. Paint in a well ventilated area. If in a building, then there should be a powerful fan blowing the paint fumes out with an opening on the opposite end to let fresh air in. Let this fan run while blowing off the car and for about 1/2 hour after to suck all the dust that is airborne out. Now is the only time to sweep the floor. From now on out, you do not sweep the floor till done. If it is a calm clear day, you can even paint out side. But any dust kicked up and carried by the wind will get in the paint. Once everything is clean and the car is masked off, wet the floor well with water. This keeps dust that is on the floor on the floor. If the floor dries out it is OK because the water makes it stick to the floor even after dry kind of like dust sticks to the car after it rains, i.e. rainspots. Just before getting ready to paint, wipe the car down with a tack cloth. Unfold the cloth and use very light rapid wiping. Pressing too hard will make some of the stuff in the tack cloth stick to the car which can mess up the paint job. With our fan running and respirator on, apply 2 light to medium coats of DP40 epoxy primer as a paint sealer. You cannot use the Dupont Variprime as a sealer. If you desire the DP40 can be thinned with up to 100% DT860 or 870 reducer to make is easier to spray. If you do reduce it, then you will have to wait a couple of hours before applying the color. Non reduced you can topcoat in about 30 minutes. If you are using a dark colored paint, then you may want to use the DP red (#74) or Black (#50?) instead of the #40 grey-green. No sanding is necessary before applying the color coat. You have several options of top coat. The oldest is Lacquer. Lacquer was once the paint of choice for show cars because it went on easily and could be buffed to an incredible shine. However, about 1980 they took the lead out of automotive paint and Lacquer has not been worth a C*** ever since. Up into the 80s GM cars were painted with non clearcoat lacquer. That is why some of those mid 80s GMs peel and flake so bad. You can still use it but it will not hold a shine very well and will tend to crack an cobweb easily with time. Most lacquer finishes are clear coated but don't have to be. For lacquer, you apply color till "hiding" is achieved, usually about 3 medium coats. Then clear is added. Lacquer is thinned with the appropriate temperature thinner at 100 to 150% ratio. For non sanding applications, use about 3 coats of clear. If you plan to sand the clear and buff it, then apply 6 coats as you will sand 3 of them back off. Apply the paint "wet" and overlap each pass 50% for best results. Don't be afraid to lay the paint on heavy. If you paint too slow, they you will see dull spots and roughness or "orange peel". For lacquer you will have to wait about a month before sanding and buffing. The next paint of generations is Enamel. For enamel to work properly, it must have a hardener added. This hardener will add some hazards to the paint above that of just the Enamel itself. If hardener is not used, then the Enamel will takes weeks to get really hard and the whole time it will be very easy to scratch. Enamel should not be sanded and buffed. Doing so will actually reduce the shine and the life of the paint. Enamel is applied in about 3 to 4 medium coats thinned with the appropriate temperature reducer at about 100%. Next came Urethane single stage paint. One of the earliest of this is Dupont Imron. This paint is mixed with a hardener and reducer just like the primer. It is applied in the same manner as Enamel. However, this paint may be sanded and buffed if desired. If you plan to sand and buff, then use 5 coats instead of 3. This is good paint for doing under fenders, in the engine bay, and suspension parts as it will shine well with little waxing and does not need to be buffed. By far the best top coating is the Basecoat-clearcoat. There have been several varieties in the past. One of the best is either the dupont Chroma base or the Ditzler Concept 2000. I painted my car with the concept 2002 clear and DBC basecoat. For the Ditzler, mix the basecoat 100% with DT 860 or 870 reducer. Apply 2 to 3 wet coats. This paint will cover fast. It will spray with the look of cottage cheese but will smooth out as it dries. Too dry of coat and it will not smooth out. Too wet of coat and you will get some runs like I did. If you get runs in the base coat, then let it dry about an hour and sand with water and 1000 grit paper. You can then apply a little more color to the area where the run is. Since the basecoat is not really a hardened paint, you can spray in a little area and it will mix in. As a matter of fact, you can just spray DT reducer over the area and the run sometimes will just melt away. The Base coat is very fragile and even after a week can be just wiped off with a rag of reducer. It requires the chemicals in the Urethane to make it harden. Therefore, the base coat is not sanded prior to clear coating. Once the base coat has flashed off, mix up some Clear and get ready to spray. For the Concept 2002, mix clear at 5 parts, DXF11 hardener at 5 parts and DT reducer at 1 part. It took me about 2 and a half quarts of clear for the whole car. Spray clear with 2 very heavy coats letting it dry to the touch between each coat. This clear is applied to just before the point of running. It may appear a little rough in appearance, but you will be sanding it out. The paint will look like cottage cheese as it is sprayed but within a minute will level out. For optimal results, after the car is painted, it is baked at 160 degrees for about 4 hours. Doing so will cause the paint to "float" out and get extremely smooth. This is the way the big paint shops get all the orange peel out of the paint that is caused by the HVLP guns. It is also the way the new car makers are getting the new car paint jobs so smooth without buffing. This clearcoat can be sanded within 8 hours of painting and should be sanded and buffed within 72 hours but no later than 7 days. If you wait more than 7 days, the paint gets so tough that it is near impossible to get all the sanding scratches back out when buffing. All masking paper should be removed after about 2 hours. Waiting any longer may let the paint get too hard and cause it to chip at the edges where the tape is. When painting 2 colors such as the rocker panels, the masking is applied directly over the previous color coat. Wait about an hour for the previous color coat to dry and then mask off for the second color. Be careful peeling tape back off so as to not pull away any of the fresh color. This is one reason why only good quality 3M painters tape should be used. It is also advisable to use "Fine Line" tape at the paint edge. This will make a finer edge where the two colors meet. Fine line tape also will bend in curves easier than masking tape. This is the stuff those guys use to paint those wild flames on cars. Sanding clear coat is similar to sanding the 400 grit of the primer just before the painting of color. Use the palm of your hand with either 1000 or 1200 grit paper and water. Work in circles and sand until all gloss from the paint is gone. You will see specks of gloss disappear as you sand out the rough areas. If you don't sand enough you will still see it as rough when done buffing. Be careful on edges so you don't sand through. Often I don't even sand the edges of the paint for this reason. You have to be very careful buffing. A power buffer can burn paint if worked too long or fast, or can cut right through edges. Use a cloth pad on a variable speed 0-2500 rpm buffer. Apply power buffing compound to the car in a small, 2by2 area. Run the buffer slow as it will go and work with medium pressure over the area until the compound starts to dry. As it is drying, increase speed to 1500 rpm and use light pressure buffing the paint to a gloss. Often it takes doing this 2 or 3 times to remove all the sanding scratches. You will still see marks from the buffer so don't confuse them with sanding marks. When getting close to an edge, always make the buffer wheel roll "off" the edge and not onto it. Tilt the buffer if necessary. A buffing wheel running onto an edge will rip right through paint. If the buffer is not working the finish up to a shine then the pad needs cleaned. Hood the buffer running and use a screwdriver to scrape away at the pad gently to remove the polish buildup. Be careful not dig into the pad or rip the screwdriver out of your hands. Do this to the entire car. Wipe the car off with a clean cloth. Change the wheel to a Foam pad. Use the Foam pad compound for the color of the car. Compounds are made for light and dark colors. Work this pad similar to the cloth wheel. This pad will remove all swirl marks from the cloth pad. Again wipe off the car with a dry clean cloth. It should now be looking pretty good. As a final finish, apply some type of professional finish enhancer. I prefer to not use any wax that contains silicone as it builds up on the paint. Eagle 1 carnuba was is pretty good and smells kinda neat too. It is the stuff Reces Pieces candy is shined up with. Don't believe me? Look in the ingredient list. You now have a 95 to 100 point paint finish. In summary: For a professional working 8 hours a day: 1 to 2 days to strip car of parts and paint. 1 day to weld up holes 2 days to apply filler and smooth (1 day for most guys) 2 days to apply and sand primer (1 day for most guys) 1 day to apply finish 1 to 2 days to sand and buff. Total: 10 days at $40 per hour = $2400 labor + $1000 materials = $3500 for a show car finish. Some well talented people are faster. This gives you my 4 weeks working 4 hours per day. So that is all it takes now days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeremy Posted November 18, 2003 Report Share Posted November 18, 2003 I know a guy on the N.E. side of columbus who owns his own body shop and does great work......if you are interested I can get you two in touch.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Intlcutlass Posted November 18, 2003 Report Share Posted November 18, 2003 No thanks for me. I thank you for thinking of it, but the money in having somebody else do it is usually WAY more than I feel like shelln out for my hard earned $. Pls, I want the satisfaction of being able to say I DID THIS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slick Posted November 19, 2003 Author Report Share Posted November 19, 2003 Same here. But unfortunately, it doesn't look like its gonna happen any time soon for me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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