Possible to make Fog Lights "Automatic" on 2004 Grand Prix???

[LipschitzWrath]

Hope this is the right thread as I couldn't find any forum that made mention of "Lighting" or "Electrical".

 

Anyways, proud new owner of 2004 GTP Comp G. One thing I have noticed is that the fog lights "reset" every time the ignition is cycled. What I mean is that when I turn the key on, I must manually turn the fog lights on. That's fine, but once I cycle the ignition, the fog lights are off and must be manually turned on again. Every other vehicle I've ever driven with fog lights would "remember" that I had the fogs on and would turn them back on next time I used the car and would continue to do so unless I took some action to indicate that I no longer wanted them on (usually cycling the fog light switch again). Some had manual switches that you just leave in the on position (usually fed from the parking lights), others must have written the state of the fog lights to memory in a module. Neither seem to be the case with the Pontiac.

 

So I ask, is there any way to get the car to remember my choice on fog lights staying on until I tell them to turn off?

 

I am envisioning using a latching relay and some associated wiring but I'm hoping I am overlooking a simple solution. God, I need to get the FSM.

 

Thanks in advance!

[Psych0matt]

I am interested to know this also. To have them come on with the headlights would be what I'd want them to do, and then I can manually turn them off if need be

[runt]

I have yet to find an "easy" way to do this. Some research over at ClubGP indicates that there is a way to do this by jumping a relay. I'll have to find those links again.

[Imp558]

Del City and Waytek both have very "factory" looking switches, yoou could rewire the relay so 85 goes to the headlight relay to feed it and 86 goes to the ground through the. switch.

[LipschitzWrath]

Del City and Waytek both have very "factory" looking switches, yoou could rewire the relay so 85 goes to the headlight relay to feed it and 86 goes to the ground through the. switch.

 

Totally understand what you are saying. I was hoping to be able to find some way to do this on the activation side of the circuit so that the instrument cluster would reflect the proper state of the circuit. With the solution u have described, I believe the lights would do what I wanted but I think the indicator light would be meaningless. The lights could be on with no light or vice versa. I know, I know, I'm being picky here.

 

I know I can build the circuit the way u describe and it will work, I just want to see what else can be done. Thanks, keep the ideas coming.

[Imp558]

Use a switch with an indicator? Or add an L.E.D maybe?

[LipschitzWrath]

Use a switch with an indicator? Or add an L.E.D maybe?

 

Well I am trying to incorporate the original indicator built into the instrument cluster. The problem with that is (assuming I have found the correct wiring diagram) is said fog light indicator is commanded to turn on/off by the Body Control Module (BCM) via the Class 2 communications bus. As such, the only way to get the indicator to work is to "fool" the car into thinking you are activating the switch in the way it was originally intended. I have attached the wiring diagram I have been using thus far. If this is not correct, please by all means correct me.

 

Does anyone have the description of operation for the fog light system out of the FSM??? This might give me some clues as to the operation of the BCM that could give me an idea of how to work around this system.

[Schurkey]

You guys must live in an area of incredible daily fog.

 

Since it's pointless and stupid (and should be illegal) to run fog lights when it's not foggy out, I'd think you'd have to be in the foggiest area on Earth.

 

Sort of like Daytime Running Lights, which are based on fraudulent "science"; GM has inflicted on us a device that positively locates people too stupid to turn off their headlights in broad daylight.

[Imp558]

I'd ground BCM C3-11 and see how the whole system behaves. If you do that and it doesn't work we can start cobbling a simple one shot circuit to pull that input low every time the ignition is cycled.

[carkhz316]

You guys must live in an area of incredible daily fog.

 

Since it's pointless and stupid (and should be illegal) to run fog lights when it's not foggy out, I'd think you'd have to be in the foggiest area on Earth.

 

Sort of like Daytime Running Lights, which are based on fraudulent "science"; GM has inflicted on us a device that positively locates people too stupid to turn off their headlights in broad daylight.

Agreed on fogs, but DRL's seem to make vehicles more visible to me:shrug:

[LipschitzWrath]

I'd ground BCM C3-11 and see how the whole system behaves. If you do that and it doesn't work we can start cobbling a simple one shot circuit to pull that input low every time the ignition is cycled.

 

That was my first thought but I was unsure how the system would react with a constant low input versus a momentary (for which it is designed). I was also hoping to keep the existing fog light switch functional (which I don't think a constant ground input would allow), but I guess that is a secondary problem we can address. I will try testing it to see what happens.

 

You guys must live in an area of incredible daily fog.

 

Since it's pointless and stupid (and should be illegal) to run fog lights when it's not foggy out, I'd think you'd have to be in the foggiest area on Earth.

 

Sort of like Daytime Running Lights, which are based on fraudulent "science"; GM has inflicted on us a device that positively locates people too stupid to turn off their headlights in broad daylight.

 

Thanks for your input but I must disagree that is is "...pointless and stupid (and should be illegal)...". Pointless? I dont' know about that, by that logic, wouldn't all cosmetic modifications be "pointless"? And maybe they are to you, but to some (including myself) they aren't. Some prefer that "4-up" front lighting look. Hey diff'rnt strokes for diff'rnt folks. I don't like black alloy wheels, some people love them. Agree to disagree.

 

Illegal? Why is that? Blinding glare? Again, I must disagree. Fog lights are supposed to project light down on the ground in such a manner specifically designed not to blind the vehicle's (and other vehicles') drivers. I don't see how that could be dangerous. If you were to have auxiliary lights on your vehicle that posed the least amount of risk to other drivers, I would have to say that [properly aimed/maintained] fog lights are probably your best bet.

 

As far as DRL's, I might be inclined to agree with you on that one. I think in the beginning, they may have caught others' attention. But now, I think they are so commonplace that no one thinks anything of it any longer. Hell, the only notable thing I can tell you about DRL's is that seemingly every Silverado and Sierra pickup has one of them out, lol.

 

You are free to express your opinion, especially on this public forum. However, if you would like to discuss the relative merits of auxiliary lighting on vehicles and whether or not they are useful or dangerous, I would really appreciate it if you started a new thread. I would like to keep this one focused on achieving a solution to the problem I have posed and I don't want to risk having the thread hijacked. Thank you.

[Schurkey]

Fog and driving lights are not a "cosmetic modification", they're a distraction to other drivers. IF (big IF) there is any truth to the "safety" aspect of lights-on-in-daytime (and I am not conceding this point; I only allow the possibility for the sake of argument) then the most at-risk vehicles should have priority for those "safety" lights without being drowned in a sea of vehicles with two, four, or six headlights on at all times.

 

In other words, using fog or driving lights when inappropriate is not a "cosmetic modification" to your vehicle, it's a sign of lack-of-respect for the other drivers out there. It's impolite, discourteous, selfish, and (potentially) dangerous. Thus, it deserves to be illegal. For all I know, it may BE illegal in certain states. AND that's why your present light switch is designed to shut off automatically.

[LipschitzWrath]

Fog and driving lights are not a "cosmetic modification", they're a distraction to other drivers. IF (big IF) there is any truth to the "safety" aspect of lights-on-in-daytime (and I am not conceding this point; I only allow the possibility for the sake of argument) then the most at-risk vehicles should have priority for those "safety" lights without being drowned in a sea of vehicles with two, four, or six headlights on at all times.

 

In other words, using fog or driving lights when inappropriate is not a "cosmetic modification" to your vehicle, it's a sign of lack-of-respect for the other drivers out there. It's impolite, discourteous, selfish, and (potentially) dangerous. Thus, it deserves to be illegal. For all I know, it may BE illegal in certain states. AND that's why your present light switch is designed to shut off automatically.

 

Whatever man. Thanks for your opinion, even if you did have to go thread-crapping to do it. Every internet forum I've ever visited concerning vehicles is split right down the middle when it comes to lighting modification. Safety is always eventually brought up. You and I will not agree on this subject, that much is certain. I am respectfully requesting that you allow me to continue my discussion in my thread now that your opinion has been noted.

 

FYI, in my state (Wyoming), the law only states that no more than 4 forward-facing illumination lights may be energized at one time. It cares not if they are high beams, low beams, fog lights, driving lights, whatever. And exactly ZERO legislation is present concerning the time of day or night in which these lights can be used. So regardless of whether or not you believe it SHOULD be illegal, it is not illegal. I suggest writing my State's government officials to have this changed, though I can save you the trouble and tell you that they will likely inform you that they will decide what is safe for Wyoming residents.

 

Now can we PLEASE get back on topic???

[runt]

I'd really like to know how having a fog light, aimed in an appropriate manner is a distraction to any driver. They are really no different than running a DRL.

 

At first I didn't agree with the DRL and while I'd rather not have them on when my car is running they do serve a useful purpose especially in weather situations where it is overcaset.

 

If you are running fog lights that aren't aimed properly or are running a bulb (read: HID) in a manner that is inconsistent with their use THAT should be illegal not simply running your fogs with the proper bulbs.

[Imp558]

It's PA Law that fog lights may only come on with low beam headlights, and driving lights only with High beams. It's a law that NOBODY observes, but it's there.

 

As for grounding BCM C3-11, that was just a thought to observe behavior, if grounding it makes for what you want then replace the switch with an on/off switch. If it doesn't then I'd still replace the switch, and use it to enable a one-shot circuit that grounds BCM C3-11 every time the ignition is applied. Here's one but you'd add a 7805 voltage regulator and a little omron relay ideally:

http://www.bowdenshobbycircuits.info/page9.htm

[1990lumi]

for your cluster light when you rewire your fog lights why not just run another power wire from your fog lights to your dash so when you turn the lights on you can just have power go to the dash light cut and splice the original factory harness wire and splice into it with your new power wire?

[LipschitzWrath]

for your cluster light when you rewire your fog lights why not just run another power wire from your fog lights to your dash so when you turn the lights on you can just have power go to the dash light cut and splice the original factory harness wire and splice into it with your new power wire?

 

No dice. My interpretation of the wiring diagram (and I could be wrong) is that the light is entirely controlled by the Class 2 Serial Communications bus in the vehicle. In short, it would be borderline impossible to "hot-wire" the fog indicator as you have suggested.

[runt]

I will agree with you.

 

If this were on a 97-03 that might be the case but on the 04+ cars nearly everything is controlled via BCM.