1997 Grand Prix GTP Concerns

[zjwflippers]

I'm 17, and just bought my first car, a 1997 Grand Prix GTP with 160,000 miles. I have some questions and concerns that I'm hoping someone with more experience can help me out with.

 

-When I first got the car the temperature gauge was hovering around 150, and it would never go any higher. Today, however, I took it out and after 5 minutes of normal city driving, it was up to 210 degrees. I drove for another 5 or so minutes and it didn't get any hotter, but I'm wondering what a normal running temp. on this car should be. Oil and coolant are good, although it does have a slight manifold leak. My only thought is that last night I did the rear brake pads and they fit pretty snugly, and I can smell them after getting out of the car, I figured I'd just let them wear in, but could this be putting extra stress on the engine? Acceleration seems normal.

 

-The sunroof leaks, not a huge deal but before I go caulking it shut I was wondering if there is an area on the sunroof of these cars that is notorious for leaking, and if there is a fix for it, it doesn't open anyway.

 

-The horn doesn't work, Is there (again) anything that is notorious for causing this problem?

 

-The fan (for heat/ac) originally only worked on the 4 and 5 settings, but now it only works on the highest setting, which is 5. Any thoughts? A/C doesn't work either.

 

-Finally, occasionally the engine rpms sometimes seem to drop considerably while the car is at idle. It's only happened a few times, and only for about a second, it drops from the normal ~900rpms to the gauge displaying ~500rpms before jumping back up to ~900, I guess I would describe it as the engine shuddering.

 

Sorry, I feel like a leech on here, because I've posted 2 topics asking for help now, but haven't ever contributed to the forum beyond that. My Dad advised me against getting the car beacuase he said it was too old (he wanted me to get a 99' Buick which I didn't think was new enough to pass up the GTP), so I don't want to immediately go to him with these concerns, as he'll say I told you so. Wondering if I got a lemon or if I'm just worrying too much. I've had the car for a month and I had to replace the rear adjuster bar, and rear track bar, and will eventually need an exhaust, so I really don't want to put that on if the car isn't worth keeping.

Thanks for any help

-Zach

Edited May 29, 2014 by zjwflippers

[94 olds vert]

Hi Zach. I have a 2000 GTP and I love it. Its a great car. Sounds like yours needs a bit of TLC.

 

My car will get up to 210 and then the fan kicks on that is normal.

 

Sunroof check your drainage tubes.

 

Check your plugs and wires easy to do uf it has not been done in a long time.

[tornado_735]

First things first bud, don't worry at all about being a "leech". This forum is full of good people who don't mind helping out.

I've never owned a second generation Grand Prix, but I will give some advice where I can.

 

210, while it seems high, is really not that hot. It's not even hot enough to turn on the electric fans (I'm not sure of exact temps, but they don't usually come on until the 220-230 range I think).

 

I am unfamiliar with second gen brakes, this should be a basic...but did you make sure to compress/rotate the caliper pistons all the way back in when you replaced the pads?

 

It sounds like your sunroof drains are plugged up...others here can tell you where you exactly where they are. I'm almost positive the panel has to be open to clear them though. And before you seal the sunroof off, make sure the fuses are not blown (of course). It could also be burnt relays. It could be a simple fix, you never know.

 

The horn could be a fuse, it could be the horns themselves. I'd check the fuses first, then the horns. A circuit tester would tell you if the horns are getting power. If not, look elsewhere.

 

I'm not exactly sure if it's the same as every other car I've ever experienced with this problem, but there are resistors that actually control the fan speeds. These resistors fail, and only high speed works as a default. It could be a resistor, it may also just be the switch.

 

The idle issue could be any number of things. If the Service Engine Soon light is on, you can get the codes checked for free at AutoZone. They'll even give you a print out if you want one. If you do have codes, report back here with them, and we'll help you figure it out.

[l67ss]

X2 on not worrying about "not contributing" asking questions gets the answers posted therefore making the solutions available. See you are contributing

Check the park brake to make sure its not dragging(common issue)

 

Swap in another heater fan switch, should fix that

First things first bud, don't worry at all about being a "leech". This forum is full of good people who don't mind helping out.

I've never owned a second generation Grand Prix, but I will give some advice where I can.

 

210, while it seems high, is really not that hot. It's not even hot enough to turn on the electric fans (I'm not sure of exact temps, but they don't usually come on until the 220-230 range I think).

 

I am unfamiliar with second gen brakes, this should be a basic...but did you make sure to compress/rotate the caliper pistons all the way back in when you replaced the pads?

 

It sounds like your sunroof drains are plugged up...others here can tell you where you exactly where they are. I'm almost positive the panel has to be open to clear them though. And before you seal the sunroof off, make sure the fuses are not blown (of course). It could also be burnt relays. It could be a simple fix, you never know.

 

The horn could be a fuse, it could be the horns themselves. I'd check the fuses first, then the horns. A circuit tester would tell you if the horns are getting power. If not, look elsewhere.

 

I'm not exactly sure if it's the same as every other car I've ever experienced with this problem, but there are resistors that actually control the fan speeds. These resistors fail, and only high speed works as a default. It could be a resistor, it may also just be the switch.

 

The idle issue could be any number of things. If the Service Engine Soon light is on, you can get the codes checked for free at AutoZone. They'll even give you a print out if you want one. If you do have codes, report back here with them, and we'll help you figure it out.

[runt]

First thing you should do is a basic tune up. Replace the fuel filter, change the plugs and plug wires assuming they haven't been done in long time (if at all.)

 

210 isn't terribly hot. You should have a 195 thermostat in the vehicle and I honestly wouldn't doubt if the gauge on the dash is just a bit off. But FWIW my old '01 used to run like that and never gave me any issue.

 

When you did the rear brakes did you great the slides? Do you use the parking brake? You should try to pump and reset the parking brake a few times to be sure something isn't bound up there. For the most part the rear brakes are a pretty straight forward job.

 

And welcome to the forums!! And don't worry about leeching most of the "old" members here were leeches for years.

[Nas Escobar]

I'm 17, and just bought my first car, a 1997 Grand Prix GTP with 160,000 miles. I have some questions and concerns that I'm hoping someone with more experience can help me out with.

 

-When I first got the car the temperature gauge was hovering around 150, and it would never go any higher. Today, however, I took it out and after 5 minutes of normal city driving, it was up to 210 degrees. I drove for another 5 or so minutes and it didn't get any hotter, but I'm wondering what a normal running temp. on this car should be. Oil and coolant are good, although it does have a slight manifold leak. My only thought is that last night I did the rear brake pads and they fit pretty snugly, and I can smell them after getting out of the car, I figured I'd just let them wear in, but could this be putting extra stress on the engine? Acceleration seems normal.

 

210 is pretty normal for a GM car. Anywhere between 190 and 220 is pretty normal. The fans are programmed to kick on at 220-230 or when you have the A/C on. However, you can swap thermostats if you want the engine to run at a lower temperature. Most GP's came with 190F thermostats but you can upgrade it to 160, ALTHOUGH that will make your heat not work as efficient as it should be. The heater works via the coolant feed. It uses the heat from the coolant.

 

The brakes have nothing to do with the engine's heat, HOWEVER if your brakes are dragging, you will wear out your pads and rear tires quicker than normal. The engine wouldn't rev as hard, perhaps 100 to 200 RPM more than normal. Check to make sure the parking brake has enough slack when it is not set. You can do this by jacking up the rear and spinning the tire (as if you were on wheel of fortune). It should only make one revolution and a half before it stops itself. If you give it a lot of force and it won't make the revolution and a half without having to constantly drag it, you need to adjust your parking brake. I'm not sure how it's done on a GP since I've only had to do this on a Grand Am.

 

-The sunroof leaks, not a huge deal but before I go caulking it shut I was wondering if there is an area on the sunroof of these cars that is notorious for leaking, and if there is a fix for it, it doesn't open anyway.

 

Actually the cars are notorious for getting its drain tubes clogged up. They're hidden by the fenders if I recall correctly. You would need to clean them out so the water drains again. As far as it not opening, the worst case scenario is a motor swap. The best case scenario is a blown fuse, bad relay, bad wiring, or a bad switch. The switch can go bad as well, just not common. Check those and then if none of that works, check the motor. Easiest way to check if it's electrical is by using a multimeter and following the leads from there.

 

-The horn doesn't work, Is there (again) anything that is notorious for causing this problem?

 

Horns go out after a while. Water can get in them or any other debris causing them to not work. Another common thing to happen is the button in the horn stops working. This usually happens out of rage though, or in other words if you punch the airbag you can dislocate the button trigger. I bought a car like this once (dislocated button), and out of anger, I punched the bag (which, btw don't do that because the airbag can inflate on you) and I made the horn get stuck on the on position. I had to get a new airbag. Best way to check if it's the horn is finding the horn (usually on the end of the car, around the bumper area but some cars are known to have it in the fender, acccessable when you open the hood (you can see them, this is more common for early 90's and before cars). There should be a clip connected to it, blue/green is positive, black/brown is negative. The color may change, but in the case of the horn, the lighter color is positive. Disconnect the clip or tap into the wire (wiretaps work fine here) and jump the positive (as in give it electrical current) and if it goes off, the horn is good and your problem lays between the fuse and the airbag. It could also very well be the wiring since you would be feeding the horn power directly. This would require some electrical wire ran from the battery to the positive side of the horn. Walmart sells it for $5. You could also use alligator clips instead of wire taps and clipping them in the pins for the horn.

 

-The fan (for heat/ac) originally only worked on the 4 and 5 settings, but now it only works on the highest setting, which is 5. Any thoughts? A/C doesn't work either.

 

The fan speed is controlled by a blower resistor. These blower resistor failing is a common issue, but on Chevy Cavaliers and Pontiac Sunfires. It's notorious on those cars, but it can fail on any car, and the symptom is that you can either turn it off or have it on max. Some people have the use of 4 and 5 and not the lower speeds. The fact that you didn't have speeds 1, 2, and 3 shows that the resistor has been failing for a long time. The procedure to swap it is usually simple though, and I found you a video so you can do it yourself. All you need to do is take off the plastic guard on the passenger's footwell, and you will find the resistor near the firewall. The piece itself shouldn't cost more than $20. If you have an Advance Auto Parts near you, buy it online, use a promocode and pick it up at the store. You can save money that way. You can find promocodes online.

 

Here's the video for you.

 

[video=youtube;4m86GgSeGyw]

 

-Finally, occasionally the engine rpms sometimes seem to drop considerably while the car is at idle. It's only happened a few times, and only for about a second, it drops from the normal ~900rpms to the gauge displaying ~500rpms before jumping back up to ~900, I guess I would describe it as the engine shuddering.

 

At the very least, it can be a vacuum leak, but other things can cause engine surges. The least obvious reason why it does this is motor/trans mounts. The most common is a cracked vacuum line or failing lower intake manifold gaskets. The V6's are well known for these gasket failures. Check your vacuum lines and check your mounts, and go from there. You can check your mounts by having a buddy shift between gears. This would mean between Park and reverse, as well as from neutral to drive or reverse. If you see the engine jump substantially, its the motor mounts that are failing. Although while I think about it, not sure if it would jump high considering that the 2 dogbones are also motor mounts, but it's worth checking. My old Ecotec had this issue and it ended up being motor mounts, so never rule anything out. To check for vacuum leaks, listen for any hissing in the engine compartment. Also, check the EGR line, it's known for strange symptoms when it's not right.

 

Also, do a tune up. Oil change including filter, spark plugs, spark plug cables, check coil packs (although failing ones will give you codes, if they have corrosion on them, swap em). Change your fuel filter as well. Do this first before swapping bigger ticket items like PCV valves and EGR valves. Sometimes all a car needs is a good tune up.

 

Sorry, I feel like a leech on here, because I've posted 2 topics asking for help now, but haven't ever contributed to the forum beyond that. My Dad advised me against getting the car beacuase he said it was too old (he wanted me to get a 99' Buick which I didn't think was new enough to pass up the GTP), so I don't want to immediately go to him with these concerns, as he'll say I told you so. Wondering if I got a lemon or if I'm just worrying too much. I've had the car for a month and I had to replace the rear adjuster bar, and rear track bar, and will eventually need an exhaust, so I really don't want to put that on if the car isn't worth keeping.

Thanks for any help

-Zach

 

Don't worry about it. I pretty much leech on here all the time. I'm pretty sure for every post I make, my ratio of helping to asking is 25/75.

 

The car is only worth keeping if it's not high miles. Other than that the issue is personal. These things are mostly wear and tear, you're not talking about engine issues other than the surging, and even then it can be normal to surge. The brakes can be fixed easily, it's all a matter of how much patience you have.

 

Good luck and post pics of your GTP!

Edited May 30, 2014 by Nas Escobar

[Euro]

Welp, everything I was going to contribute has already been spoken

 

So, welcome sir! Ask away, there is plenty of help here!