dkorinko Posted November 16, 2003 Report Share Posted November 16, 2003 Jeff, anyone, anyone at all??? Please someone help. Does anyone know how i can get a bigger turbo and bigger injectors on my TGP??? I have asked many people this many times and it seems like they just kinda shrug me off everytime. Any help would be great thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SleeperRed90TGp Posted November 16, 2003 Report Share Posted November 16, 2003 What are you running now. Cam, Turbo and injectors? I've been playing with a bigger turbo and injectors and cams. Maybe i can get you started on bigger stuf. Jud Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris A Posted November 16, 2003 Report Share Posted November 16, 2003 Sure but you will be on your own! The fueling will be the biggest hurdle as you will need to redo all the VE tables with a larger turbo/injectors. Unlike a Mass Air system, which pretty much just needs an injector constant change. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SleeperRed90TGp Posted November 16, 2003 Report Share Posted November 16, 2003 No, haven't re-done the ve tables. I just make sure I don't try and burn air. Just keep it wet. 8) It's not the most docile thing on the street. WOT is awesome. And yea I've been on my own for a long long time. Don't know about dkorinko. He is asking so why not tell him. I am sure he understands that's its a risk. Jud Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dkorinko Posted November 17, 2003 Author Report Share Posted November 17, 2003 Yea, the car has quite a bit of work done to it. Lunati Cam, J/E pistons, its been bored out twice and the heads are ported. Now i want more though. I wanna move to like a T3 turbo and the bigger injectors, like 29 lbs. i think they are??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SleeperRed90TGp Posted November 17, 2003 Report Share Posted November 17, 2003 Why a t03? Thats a ton of work, new crossover or at least a new flange and whats the point the crossover outlet is to small for a t03 and would be a lot of work to enlarge it to fit the t03 flange. Never seen a t03 with our down pipe flange either although one might be made. I assume you have a t25. If so you are not getting 18 pounds of clean air, I doubt your getting 18# on a gauge unless its been modified. Your goal should be to get a turbo that flows a little more than you need. At around 6k rpm these little motors flow about 38#. A t28 can pump out 43# in one trim(about 25 psi) and about 48 with a different cartrage( to much for me). Best thing is you can install it without changing the xover flang and minor mods to the down pipe. You will need new water lines as the fittings are the banjo style and an oil return down pipe. All from the j/y. A foreign j/y. As for 29# injectors I am not there yet. I've got some 30# that I havent tried. I am using late modle gm 26# presently.They require a slight mod to fit properly. Cost 975 for a new twin ball bearing turbo and a 100 worth of fitings and hose adaptors depending on the style of turbo. If you want to no more or need a pic.(I photoed most of the instalation) let me know. I'am going to bed. Jud Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris A Posted November 17, 2003 Report Share Posted November 17, 2003 We were going for serious HP at one point. A To4b 50 trim and stage 3 wheel... But you'd be surprised how much a small upgrade can give you. And you can get some good HP from a turbo that will bolt up. The exhaust might get a little restrictive as you really get up there, but there are turbos that will work as they are popular on a lot of nissan cars. They have one that is a true T03 compressor with the t25 backend. This is loosely considered a t28, but there are a few different versions of it. You may want to try an extra injector setup. I've never done it, but there are ways to use a 7th injector to provide the additoinal fueling you will need with the bigger turbo. With a T03 compressor you can get a super 60-1 wheel which is probably the 48lb/min flow Jud was speaking of. Good Luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dkorinko Posted November 17, 2003 Author Report Share Posted November 17, 2003 Jud- That would be awesome if i could get some pics. if u wanna email them then send them to danekorinko69@hotmail.com Thanks. And that is a good idea to get a T3 compressor side with a T-25 backside, if i could find one then i would imagine that it would work!!!! If anyone has any info on that then PLEASE let me know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Burning Rom Posted November 17, 2003 Report Share Posted November 17, 2003 Jud- That would be awesome if i could get some pics. if u wanna email them then send them to danekorinko69@hotmail.com Thanks. And that is a good idea to get a T3 compressor side with a T-25 backside, if i could find one then i would imagine that it would work!!!! If anyone has any info on that then PLEASE let me know. You can have them built. They're called hybrid turbos They're not cheap though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SleeperRed90TGp Posted November 17, 2003 Report Share Posted November 17, 2003 Thats what I have an upgrade for a nissan. GT28 60ar/62ar t28 exhaust housing hybird. It has the super 60 wheel although I don't know what trim. I could find out if its important there right here in Houston. For all I know it could be a T03 compressor but they didn't say and I didn't ask. I told them after much research that I wanted to support 350 to 400hp and it had to have the T28 5 bolt exhaust super 60 compressor and flow enough to give me 25# at 6k rpm. I am extremely pleased with it although it will be some time before I can attain thoes hp numbers. I was aware going in that some chip work (or engine management) would have to be done. Can't wait for Christmas only thing on my list is chip tunning stuff. Already have the 7th injector but not using since the bigger injectors. Was going to add another but I figured I would work with the bigger injectors for a while. It's poring here and there are tornado warnings so kind of confined to the house. Canceled a doctors appoinment cause its flooded in Houston. Good day to upload pictures. I'll let you know when there up. Jud Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marcus18 Posted November 17, 2003 Report Share Posted November 17, 2003 A guy I know with a dodge spirit r/t has a t3 turbo that he's having to upgrade to a t3/t4 because the exhaust restriction. we have .6 more liters than he does. think about what problems you might have with the same boost. I though everyone recommended a t3/t4 for a upgrade. marcus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris A Posted November 18, 2003 Report Share Posted November 18, 2003 The more mismatched you get in turbo families the more ineffiecent the exhasut side is. The compressor commands the exhaust wheel. I've never seen a "hybrid" turbo with a smaller comrpessor than an exhaust. So if they were haveing exhaust issues on the dodge, going from a t3 to a t3/t4 wouldn't really do anything for the exhaust because it still uses a t3 turbine housing. The super 60 wheel is the largest you can really get in a t3 housing. You can also get a good flowing exhaust side in a t28, but the t3 would be better matched for tthe 3.1L displacement. As you flow more air in, even with a good exhaust wheel, you are flowing more air out and will get to a point where the exhaust differential gets high because of high exhaust manifold pressures. The most efficient exhaust wheel will drive a compressor's commands with minimal pressure drop. Sounds counter intuitive, but just like a regular engine, the harder it has to work to pump the exhaust out the less power it makes. So the more exhaust we can flow, and the more power we can make off that exhaust the more power we can make in general. So because a t3 exhaust housing is bigger, and the wheels are bigger it can more easily drive a bigger compressor wheel. For the same horsepower, the t3 turbine migh work 1/2 as hard as the t28 turbine for the same 60-1 wheel. And as you approach the 400-450hp mark you may find that a larger housing may be needed? Who knows Make any sense? Think of a pressure washer. About 3gal per min of flow at 3000 psi. But it wouldn't be any good for putting out a fire would it? A fire hose flows more water 100 gal per min, at less but signifigant pressure so it in sense is getting more work done. That might be a streach of an example but you get the idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SleeperRed90TGp Posted November 18, 2003 Report Share Posted November 18, 2003 No I wouldn't recommend anything. I am no expert and there aren’t' any on this forum. Knowledgeable yes but expert no. I am just telling what I did and what worked for me. Read the post again. The exhaust restriction is the biggest concern both Chris and I have. Chris with the turbo which is justified but the xover is the expensive problem. You can’t pack 10# of air through a 5# hole even if you change the outlet hole. The pipes themselves are restrictive. Take yours apart and look at it. You’ll puke. You want a t3/t04 great if you like hitting your head on the steering wheel when it bogs. Be real 95% of the guys on this forum want a big grab in hp not the ultimate. and no trouble. The little turbo will do them a better job than any t3/t04. They will spend far less for a t 28 new than they will for a used t3 and change the flange and dp. Yea everybody may recomend a t3 but they don’t know what there talking about (haven’t done the research, just listened to others) until they decide what they really want to do. 12 second dream on.) And who cars about a doggie??? Sorry Dodge, Don’t even know what it is. I assume 4 cyl. This is a TGP forum I think, it’s for the 3.1 lt v6 but I could be wrong. Please somebody correct me, Have a wonderful night. Jud Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris A Posted November 18, 2003 Report Share Posted November 18, 2003 One thing I asked the turbo builder was about spool. He told me that since you are using similar compressor wheels for that amount of horsepower, lag characteristics from weight would be similar between the t28 and the t3. At that point the biggest contributor to lag would be turbine housing sizing. It made sense. He said going to a smaller A/R could reduce lag and increase spool. Even though a lower A/R would be more of a restriction on the fat side, overall I think its supposed to flow more than a smaller housing would. In all reality the best thing to do is work your way up. Jud has probably the best setup for it. An exhaust housing that bolts in with the compressor to support a reasonable amount of power. Even doing a wheel upgrade on a t25 could make a nice noticeable difference! If you get to the point that you really NEED the bigger housing then you will have to step up at that point. And he's right the added cost from redoing the piping etc, no matter how EASY anyone says (they probably have a TIG welder at home and all the flanges on the shelf) still takes a good bit of work and $$, and can offset the extra cost a t28/t3 can cost. A lot of guys were looking to the DSM cars with their t25, but the nissan style turbos are the way to go. But hopefully now you understand a little better why everyone says t3/t4! Personally I thinkk alot of guys say T3/T4 without really knowing anything. A turbo familiy (t3/t4s) that is used on anything from 1.5 L hondas to Grand Nationals and Small blocks has to have more to it than that. You can get some very small ones, a To4b compressor with a 40 wheel and a stage 1 exhaust in .42 trim to very large Q Trim compressor and stage 3 exhaust in 1.01 or bigger (they're out there but I don't know what they are!!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TurboZ24 Posted November 18, 2003 Report Share Posted November 18, 2003 I know myself how much a problem turbine/pre-turbo exhaust can be. I've reached the point where my T3 .63 A/R stage 5 (changed from a .48, didn't make any difference) along with the pre-turbo exhaust is too small and currently only allows me to reach a maximum boost of 14 psi, if I jam the wastegate closed (no leaks, no intake leaks, etc, etc). I still need to check the backpressure pre-turbo, but I'd assume it's way too high. I've seen this kind of "turbo" sizing posts before. I used a T3 on a recent turbo 3.1 project, simply because I can get them new a lot cheaper than I can get T-25's (and it still spools by 1500 rpm anyways). But I also see people running small engine using turbo's way too large, because everyone told them that T3/T4 was the way to go, yet they wonder why they don't get boost until 4800 rpm..... There are a lot of incorrect statements running around about turbos, so check with an actual turbo shop (that builds turbos, not a tuner or installer) and get them to help with sizing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris A Posted November 19, 2003 Report Share Posted November 19, 2003 John Craig and Chopper of Limit Engineering were extrememly helpful in designing a turbo. Some of the best guys I've ever talked to. They will really take the time to do some calcs and work out a turbo for you and yoru power ranges. They use the best parts from different manufacturers to get a great turbo. I've seen really good results from them on the GN's. I was never able to try out the one we had for the TGP though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SleeperRed90TGp Posted November 19, 2003 Report Share Posted November 19, 2003 Good info Chris, Curtis. Hope everyone reads and heeds. As Curtis said go to the source for your turbo. I spent almost a year researching. When I got close to knowing what I wanted I started a rapport with Turbochargers here in Houston. Extremely helpful. After many calls to them and almost 2 hrs in there shop learning more I bought from them. The sold it as a GT28 ball bearing upgrade for a Grand Prix. That way they didn’t have to charge me tax which was about $85.00. dorinko, I haven’t forgotten you. About all I’ve done the past 2 days is watch my computer boot. I guess Houston got there butts kicked with the last storm. I lost count of how many times the power went out. Anyhow here is the link. Didn’t want to email cause didn’t know what modem you have. These could take forever to download. http://photo.starblvd.net/sleeperred90tgp Go to page 3. Jud Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted November 19, 2003 Report Share Posted November 19, 2003 Off the subject but love the cat pics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RareGMFan Posted November 20, 2003 Report Share Posted November 20, 2003 SleeperRed90TGp: If you don't mind me asking, what did that turbo cost ya'? I'm very interested in having one made down the road, possibly before the next W-Body meet. If you do mind, just tell me to shut up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dkorinko Posted November 20, 2003 Author Report Share Posted November 20, 2003 I want to know!!! that turbo is awesome dude!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skalor Posted November 20, 2003 Report Share Posted November 20, 2003 From what I've seen on the nissan boards that I go on quite a bit (I'm a closet SR20 nut). The "disco potato" would be a kick ass turbo upgrade for our cars. It would retain the same spool characteristics, but would increase our HP ceiling. It's technically a GT28R and I've found some very nice units out there. Unfortunately, the price is a drawback for these state-of-the-art turbo as they are $1500 and up from what I've seen. Here's the DP flow map: http://fp.enter.net/~nicolette/images/turboGP/gt28rflow.jpg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SleeperRed90TGp Posted November 20, 2003 Report Share Posted November 20, 2003 No I wouldn't tell you to shut up. Already posted the price in about thread 5 or 6. Cost 975 for a new twin ball bearing turbo and a 100 worth of fitings and hose adaptors depending on the style of turbo Jud Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dkorinko Posted November 20, 2003 Author Report Share Posted November 20, 2003 Sleeper- I am VERY interested in using the same turbo u have, please dont forget about me and keep me up with any info u have. I honestly dont care how much the thing cost, i can get the cash! Oh by the way, i still have 2 TGP race chips if anyone is interested. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skalor Posted November 20, 2003 Report Share Posted November 20, 2003 Oh by the way, i still have 2 TGP race chips if anyone is interested. What are you're TGP race chips??? As in what changes were made, and what kind of setup are they designed for?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dkorinko Posted November 20, 2003 Author Report Share Posted November 20, 2003 The two chips i have available are for cars that are running ABOVE stock boost levels. You will see little improvment if your car is bone stock. The main thing about these chips is one of them is meant for 100 Octane and the other one is meant for 103 octane. The chip was designed to take advantage of the better fuel so its not smart to run these chips with pump gas. U might end up detonating pretty bad if u run on pump gas so that is the only precaution i have, make sure u use GOOD Gas. And besides that, just go to the track and enjoy the times. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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