Michael Savage Posted April 7, 2014 Report Share Posted April 7, 2014 Interested in spark Gapping for better combustion and use of fuel. Stock 3100 .060 Gap 20,000-25,000 volts Resistant Plugs and Wires Modded 3100 .070 Gap 40,000 Volts Non Resistant Copper Plugs and Low Resistant Wires. How much more could I gap out before having spark blow out at that high of Voltage? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galaxie500XL Posted April 7, 2014 Report Share Posted April 7, 2014 It's not quite that simple. THEORETICALLY, a larger gap, and hotter spark SHOULD provide better combustion, and greater efficiency. The reality generally doesn't work out that way, when you put the theory into practice. Interested in spark Gapping for better combustion and use of fuel. Stock 3100 .060 Gap 20,000-25,000 volts Resistant Plugs and Wires Modded 3100 .070 Gap 40,000 Volts Non Resistant Copper Plugs and Low Resistant Wires. How much more could I gap out before having spark blow out at that high of Voltage? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Savage Posted April 7, 2014 Author Report Share Posted April 7, 2014 Well a longer spark puts more flame into the combustion lighting the fuel with a larger area burning quicker, extra voltage is to keep the spark stronger from blowing out. I figure it's worth testing since stronger spark has lead to better combustion as well as being able to jump farther. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobertISaar Posted April 7, 2014 Report Share Posted April 7, 2014 coil voltage only rises as high as necessary before the plug ionizes the air and conducts. if it only takes 4,000 volts to do so(like at idle), then that is as high as it gets. a wider plug gap requires more voltage in all conditions to make the jump and is actually more stressful on the coil because of it. if you want to run larger gaps, you need better electrodes. copper plugs have large, flat sections of metal, which doesn't help an arc at all compared to iridium plugs, which have the needle-like center electrode. those are much more large gap-friendly. in the mid 80s, some GM cars were running .080 gaps on HEI systems, that is the largest i've ever seen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schurkey Posted April 7, 2014 Report Share Posted April 7, 2014 (edited) in the mid 80s, some GM cars were running .080 gaps on HEI systems, that is the largest i've ever seen. Burnt-up a lot of caps, rotors, coils, and the little black carbon button under the coil. As I remember, they issued a bulletin to reduce the spark gap to .060. Even .060 is too much. Stresses the insulation of the entire secondary side of the ignition, and doesn't really gain anything. The primary reason for this excessive gap was to light-off EGR-polluted, extra-lean fuel mixes due to half-assed control of the EGR system, and half-assed fuel metering to meet emissions goals. Keep in mind that the compression ratio was somewhere around 8:1, maybe less. With feedback fuel injection and computer-controlled EGR, there's NO need to stress the ignition system by playing games with the plug gap. If you INSIST on playing games with plug gap, at least check with the plug manufacturer to assure that the gap you're choosing is within the gap-range of the plug you have. Cranking open (or closed) the gap is counter-productive if the side electrode ends up at a goofy angle compared to the center electrode. 90 degrees is best. Virtually all performance engines run .045 gaps or narrower. Blown or nitrous engines often around .030. Edited April 7, 2014 by Schurkey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galaxie500XL Posted April 7, 2014 Report Share Posted April 7, 2014 Actually, burning fuel quicker is a fair definition of detonation....keep in mind, higher octane fuels burn SLOWER, not quicker than lower-quality, lower octane fuels.. Well a longer spark puts more flame into the combustion lighting the fuel with a larger area burning quicker, extra voltage is to keep the spark stronger from blowing out. I figure it's worth testing since stronger spark has lead to better combustion as well as being able to jump farther. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobertISaar Posted April 8, 2014 Report Share Posted April 8, 2014 a faster burn isn't necessarily a bad thing.... in fact, it's a good thing, allows you to run less advance and still have pressure peak at the ~15-20* ATDC that creates best output. a faster, uncontrolled burn, that be detonation, or worse, pre-ignition. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schurkey Posted April 8, 2014 Report Share Posted April 8, 2014 keep in mind, higher octane fuels burn SLOWER, not quicker than lower-quality, lower octane fuels.. Octane rating doesn't describe flame speed. Octane rating is a measure of a fuel's resistance to spontaneous combustion, not it's ability to burn "fast" or "slow". Flame speed of a non-turbulent gasoline/air mix is dreadfully slow compared to piston motion. Flame speed in the cylinder/combustion chamber depends on turbulence to increase the rate of burn to something that's usable above idle. Which is another reason that a larger spark gap doesn't really increase power. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Savage Posted April 8, 2014 Author Report Share Posted April 8, 2014 The Nascar plugs don't even have a gap. It's Electrode to side wall. Which is another thing I've considered. A lot of actually high sport track racing engines run E to SW plugs. So what's so wrong with a bigger or smaller gap. Lol I see a lot here that contradicts. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Night Fury Posted April 8, 2014 Report Share Posted April 8, 2014 I just don't even. Do you think, just perhaps, the engineers that designed the engines the way they did, did so for any particular reason? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schurkey Posted April 8, 2014 Report Share Posted April 8, 2014 The Nascar plugs don't even have a gap. It's Electrode to side wall. Which is another thing I've considered. Do you think, just perhaps, the engineers that designed the engines the way they did, did so for any particular reason? Oh, hell no. What works on a 9000+ rpm, 500-mile engine should translate perfectly to a grocery-getter. My Dad had a Mercury Marine six-popper outboard with surface-gap plugs. I think I still have a couple of plugs for it out in the garage. Those were insanely cold heat-range among other wonderful qualities. I'd expect the NASCAR surface-gap plugs to be similar, but I've never seen one in real life. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Savage Posted April 8, 2014 Author Report Share Posted April 8, 2014 So what's the science behind the surface gap plugs vs standard gap plugs. The nascar plugs are nice you can order them online on certain websites. My father puts them on drag engines. I'll see if I can catch him when he's sober to find out the website. Back in the 80s theyd break the ground strap off and grind the electrode down to match the surface. They made great performance but that way was short life. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Savage Posted April 8, 2014 Author Report Share Posted April 8, 2014 That's one thing I've looked for forever definite studies on spark plugs. I can't find anything totally inadmissible. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Savage Posted April 8, 2014 Author Report Share Posted April 8, 2014 http://www.championsparkplugs.com/glossary/8/spark-plug/S Found this thanks to Surface-Gap Sparkplugs that was distinctive to find some info. Apparently this type of plug can increase performance and combustion by exposing the full spark to the air fuel mixture. So longer spark makes sense that it would work but not as well. But those types of applications require HP Ignitions. Such as 40,000 volts such as the L67 SC/MSD/Accel coils. With low to non resistant applications. Surface Gap averages to about a 5mm gap. So from the sounds of it no gap is better than a bigger gap. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Savage Posted April 8, 2014 Author Report Share Posted April 8, 2014 Sparkplugs are a big research based thing with me. Everything leads to different researches saying different things about the same things. Why is there no consistent sparkplug information? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turbocharged400sbc Posted April 8, 2014 Report Share Posted April 8, 2014 because it's mostly marketing and gimmicks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Night Fury Posted April 8, 2014 Report Share Posted April 8, 2014 Such as 40,000 volts such as the L67 SC/MSD/Accel coils. With low to non resistant applications. Someone has already told you this, but there is NO difference(aside from aesthetics over the years) in the coils between quite literally every w-body made. Furthermore, you won't be gaining performance by going aftermarket. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Savage Posted April 8, 2014 Author Report Share Posted April 8, 2014 Yes most of it is gimmicks but some isn't. That's where it gets confusing trying to find the real info. I saw a spark plug with 2 electrodes that said it helped with performance by giving 2 individual sparks. Then there's the Firestorm that's got a hell of a lot of testing by even college students. But with normal plugs there's nothing definite. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schurkey Posted April 8, 2014 Report Share Posted April 8, 2014 Surface Gap averages to about a 5mm gap. So from the sounds of it no gap is better than a bigger gap. How can you say that a 5mm gap is "no gap"? 5 millimeters is equal to 0.19685 inches. The problem with the surface-gap plugs I'm familiar with is that they're cold as hell, which means they foul at the drop of a hat. Their use in a two-stroke outboard is an application that fires twice as often under power as our W-body engines at the same RPM, so the plug is exposed to almost double the heat load. 'Course, the compression ratio is very low due to ring-ding intake and exhaust ports in the cylinder wall. The piston can't build compression until it's risen high enough to cover the ports. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Savage Posted April 8, 2014 Author Report Share Posted April 8, 2014 Well that's just a pitiful engine lol Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galaxie500XL Posted April 8, 2014 Report Share Posted April 8, 2014 Real info is almost indistinguishable from the marketing spin a lot of those products come included with, no extra charge. I tried some of those "splitfire" plugs a few years ago...mileage decreased about 15%, and the car refused to idle at red lights for more than about 45 seconds at a time. Yes most of it is gimmicks but some isn't. That's where it gets confusing trying to find the real info. I saw a spark plug with 2 electrodes that said it helped with performance by giving 2 individual sparks. Then there's the Firestorm that's got a hell of a lot of testing by even college students. But with normal plugs there's nothing definite. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Savage Posted April 8, 2014 Author Report Share Posted April 8, 2014 So Surface Gap require hot hot engines, simi-surface gaps are cross platform and Gapped are for cooler engines. I wonder what the firestorms Tesla Coil based spark plug is considered? I'm working on designing a custom set of those because there's enough testing behind them all over the world that says similar things to agree they can make a difference. But for now I'm trying to get more out of normal plugs and just wonder What's the best Non Resistant Sparkplug and can the gap affect performance or emissions on a normal plug? Also I will agree the Splitfire plugs weren't great at all lol the one with 2 electrodes not ground straps I saw on Jegs? I thought was an interesting idea 2 places for it to spark from not just the closest ground strap. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Savage Posted April 8, 2014 Author Report Share Posted April 8, 2014 http://www.hho4free.com/sparkplugs.htm This has the most up to date spark plug and ignition info to run engines on water if you wanted or just a super strong ignition. I want to get the Aqua pulse ignition. 40,000v normal ignition times 400amps if I remember correctly Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Savage Posted April 8, 2014 Author Report Share Posted April 8, 2014 202 to 420 amps Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
l67ss Posted April 8, 2014 Report Share Posted April 8, 2014 Actually on the l67 coil thing, after a lil r and d ive found that there is a difference. The reason people think their the same is cause of part store whole universal larts thing. They just sell you an l36 coil. Ive seen the the spark from both coils Someone has already told you this, but there is NO difference(aside from aesthetics over the years) in the coils between quite literally every w-body made. Furthermore, you won't be gaining performance by going aftermarket. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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