goumba Posted April 2, 2014 Report Share Posted April 2, 2014 Hey, I have a '95 Grand Prix 3.1 Auto. The CEL illuminates on every trip after a few minutes (and nearly always, coincidentally(?), when hard braking). I have tried using TunerPro to check for codes, but it just won't work. AFAIK the 2E is the proper stream definition to use for this car, yet it won't connect. I know the cable works, as it connects and gets the data stream from my '90 TA, so I can rule out problems with the laptop and cable. Any ideas? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schurkey Posted April 2, 2014 Report Share Posted April 2, 2014 Unless there's a wiring fault, or defective ECM, any professional-grade scan tool with '95 GM software will work. No promises on consumer-grade junk. Let me guess: OBD II connector, running OBD I? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobertISaar Posted April 2, 2014 Report Share Posted April 2, 2014 93-95 W-body 3100 = P66 V6. 94-95 W-body 3.4 = 1FA or 2E(depending on if it is an early or late calibration) http://www.gearhead-efi.com/Fuel-Injection/showthread.php?1928-16172693-16184164-16184737-16196397-PCM-Information-P66-V6 that has the ADX you'll need. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobertISaar Posted April 2, 2014 Report Share Posted April 2, 2014 also, when hard braking? first guess would be EGR solenoid 1. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goumba Posted April 2, 2014 Author Report Share Posted April 2, 2014 (edited) Let me guess: OBD II connector, running OBD I? OBD I connector. 93-95 W-body 3100 = P66 V6. 94-95 W-body 3.4 = 1FA or 2E(depending on if it is an early or late calibration) also, when hard braking? first guess would be EGR solenoid 1. I thought I got it off of TunerPro's own page, but when I double checked again just now, it may perhaps be I'm an idiot who can't read is it does say 3.4 and even LQ1. Don't know how I messed that up. Thanks for the EGR tip. Edited April 2, 2014 by goumba Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galaxie500XL Posted April 2, 2014 Report Share Posted April 2, 2014 You've provided somewhat limited information, but I recall having a similar problem with my LQ1 when I first got it, and it was the evaporative purge solenoid. It won't set a code, but if you have a scantool, it showed up as a "Quad A Driver Fail". Took me forever to find what devices the Quad A driver ran, but it turned out I had an open in the evaporative purge solenoid coil, which meant it wasn't working any longer. I bought a replacement at a junkyard, I think I paid $3.00 for it. Easy enough to check with just an ohmmeter. IIRC, it's got a couple of vacuum lines going to it, it's a two pin connector, and the connector color is red. Might not actually be your problem, but even without a scantool, it's easy to check. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Imp558 Posted April 2, 2014 Report Share Posted April 2, 2014 I see a paperclip in your future. Jump "A" to "B" on the Diagnostic port and it should blink out the codes in the check engine light. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GP1138 Posted April 2, 2014 Report Share Posted April 2, 2014 That's not going to work on a '95. Different connector. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Imp558 Posted April 2, 2014 Report Share Posted April 2, 2014 He said it was an OBD-I DLC, I wonder what would happen if one took an obd-I car with an obd-II DLC and jumped 6 to 4 or 5? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galaxie500XL Posted April 2, 2014 Report Share Posted April 2, 2014 Interesting...my '95 has the old style ALDL connector...but the scantool spits out "P" codes, like an OBD system. That's not going to work on a '95. Different connector. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Imp558 Posted April 2, 2014 Report Share Posted April 2, 2014 I didn't think anything but F & Y Bodies came with a 16 pin DLC in 95. I think there was a cadillac, not the Fleetwood that did too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobertISaar Posted April 2, 2014 Report Share Posted April 2, 2014 Interesting...my '95 has the old style ALDL connector...but the scantool spits out "P" codes, like an OBD system. eh, you could give older style 2-digit codes a 3/4 digit OBD2-style equivalent and do the reverse operation as well and nothing really changes, the only real difference is that it wouldn't match factory documentation. He said it was an OBD-I DLC, I wonder what would happen if one took an obd-I car with an obd-II DLC and jumped 6 to 4 or 5? won't work.... not on the W-bodies with the OBD2 style connector anyways. the pin doesn't even exist in the connector or run to the PCM to do the older blinkout stuff, even if they did, the code doesn't exist to do the blinkout procedure. i don't think any of the other platforms had the wiring/code present either, but i could be wrong. I didn't think anything but F & Y Bodies came with a 16 pin DLC in 95. I think there was a cadillac, not the Fleetwood that did too. SOME 95 W-bodies got them..... with no apparent pattern either. i've seen late 95s with the old connector and early cars with the newer connector. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Imp558 Posted April 2, 2014 Report Share Posted April 2, 2014 The 94 & 95 LT1 and L99 cars had the 8051 PCM that was a bitch to read too, no using a coin on them either. Except the Vette "Y", that was a kooky OBD 1.5 thing that emulated obd-II Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobertISaar Posted April 2, 2014 Report Share Posted April 2, 2014 actually, the 94-95 corvette PCM has hardware in it that allows communication over the class 2 stream, instead of the 8192 baud UART circuit that is normally used. i don't know how much of the code exists in the programs for comms on that circuit, but it wouldn't surprise me if it was mostly functional. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Savage Posted April 2, 2014 Report Share Posted April 2, 2014 My 95 Monte Carlo came with a GM "jump key" has 4 sides for different connectors. Mine is A B for the jump code. And it does work, but the card key that came with it doesn't have all the codes, so you just look them up online for your vehicle. I find it rather helpful, but my main code is EGR Solenoid 3 I think it's code 73. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Savage Posted April 2, 2014 Report Share Posted April 2, 2014 So 7 fast blinks then short pause then 3 blinks Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Savage Posted April 2, 2014 Report Share Posted April 2, 2014 I will agree with Robert. The 95 3100 is notorious about the EGR sticking open or closed throwing the code after decelerating. Mine is generally after breaking from 45-55+. Not a big issue, just makes you run a bit richer. I've noticed that with my spark plugs. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nas Escobar Posted April 3, 2014 Report Share Posted April 3, 2014 (edited) I see a paperclip in your future. Jump "A" to "B" on the Diagnostic port and it should blink out the codes in the check engine light. Doesn't work on 94's and 95's. Those need the ALDL cable. I beat that dead horse for the longest, even coming on here mad that people kept telling me to use a scanner on my 94. I eventually caved in and got the ALDL cable and downloaded TunerPro. 94 OBD1 started using Pxxx codes, I think that's why most people call 94 and 95 GM cars OBD 1.5, although the meaning of that varies between cars. I didn't think anything but F & Y Bodies came with a 16 pin DLC in 95. I think there was a cadillac, not the Fleetwood that did too. Specifically, the 3800 and LT1 F bodies came with the 16 pin, and the 3800 PCM in 95 emulated OBD 2. And you're thinking Deville if I'm not mistaken, 95 was the body change. Edited May 2, 2014 by Nas Escobar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Imp558 Posted April 3, 2014 Report Share Posted April 3, 2014 (edited) Doesn't work on 94's and 95's. Those need the ALDL cable. I beat that dead horse for the longest, even coming on here mad that people kept telling me to use a scanner on my 94. I eventually caved in and got the ALDL cable and downloaded HP tuners. 94 OBD1 started using Pxxx codes, I think that's why most people call 94 and 95 GM cars OBD 1.5, although the meaning of that varies between cars. Specifically, the 3800 and LT1 F bodies came with the 16 pin, and the 3800 PCM in 95 emulated OBD 2. And you're thinking Deville if I'm not mistaken, 95 was the body change. The F bodies came with a 12 pin in 94, and for 95 had a 16 pin with no class II serial data on pin 2, it had the tan serial data uart on pin 9 and the diagnostic request wire on pin 6, the corvette for 94 and 95 had a pcm that is essentially an obd-I with a little board in it that emulates class II data like OBD-II but it's not capable of calibration via OBD-II, only pulling codes. For 1996 they had a true obd-II PCM. I'm not sure what diagnostic protocol the Deville had, I just thought I remembered it being a 16 pin before 96. Edit: I just caught where you said the V6 emulated class II in 95, I thought the body harness was the same, but you are likely correct Edited April 3, 2014 by Imp558 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nas Escobar Posted April 3, 2014 Report Share Posted April 3, 2014 The F bodies came with a 12 pin in 94, and for 95 had a 16 pin with no class II serial data on pin 2, it had the tan serial data uart on pin 9 and the diagnostic request wire on pin 6, the corvette for 94 and 95 had a pcm that is essentially an obd-I with a little board in it that emulates class II data like OBD-II but it's not capable of calibration via OBD-II, only pulling codes. For 1996 they had a true obd-II PCM. I'm not sure what diagnostic protocol the Deville had, I just thought I remembered it being a 16 pin before 96. Edit: I just caught where you said the V6 emulated class II in 95, I thought the body harness was the same, but you are likely correct Yeah, I was specifically referring to the 95's since 94 didn't have the 3800. I have an F body myself, so from what I've gathered on the Camaro forums, the 95 pcm is a bastard child, moreso than the Vette's strange PCM configuration. To make a long story short, it's hard to swap a 96-02 L36 on a 95 F body. The whole wiring of it is different, the connector is a OBD2 connector with OBD1 wiring and like you said, it can't calibrate via OBD2. It's just a strange system overall... If Robert Saar shows up, I know he'd probably school us both on the technicalities. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Imp558 Posted April 3, 2014 Report Share Posted April 3, 2014 It's not that bad, the harness remained the same shape from 93-02 for the F. They need to be re-pinned and the class 2 wire just gets run out long inside the car and inserted into pin 2, unless it's 93-94 where the DLC needs replaced. There are several pins to move on the 2 plugs to the body harness under the hood, and on 2 of the 3 plugs inside the car but they plug back in. Of course the PCM needs recalibrated for the gears and la-de-da. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobertISaar Posted April 3, 2014 Report Share Posted April 3, 2014 95 3800 F-bodies = early OBD2 implimentation, just like SOME 95 4.3 S-trucks. they're actually a 100% OBD2 compatible PCM. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Imp558 Posted April 3, 2014 Report Share Posted April 3, 2014 Rear O2? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobertISaar Posted April 3, 2014 Report Share Posted April 3, 2014 Rear O2? there are actually 4 O2 sensors on the 95 3800 F-bodies: left manifold right manifold pre-converter post-converter there is also the vacuum switch setup used for EVAP fault detection that was common on 96-97 vehicles, PCM control of the alternator, comms on pin 9(UART) and pin 2(class 2 VPW) of the data connector. also uses the "standard" 80X2 PCM connectors. the 95 4.3 trucks..... weird little thing. communicates via class 2 only, pre and post-cat O2 sensors, EVAP fault detection and for the kicker: has an ABS module built into it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goumba Posted May 1, 2014 Author Report Share Posted May 1, 2014 Sorry Guys, got busy. TunerPro still will not connect, using the P66 adx the status bar says "DA: Connecting..." and never changes. Paper clip doesn't work, first thing I tried. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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