Turbocharged400sbc Posted March 28, 2014 Report Share Posted March 28, 2014 one of your biggest headaches is going to be the firewall pass throughs for the harness I'm pretty sure you will not be able to make it weather tight as GM changed the pass through size an xxx shape to accommodate almost twice as many wires as older cars. you also may well get stuck keeping the BCM as most modern Obd2/CAN bus security and anti theft systems depend on a security handshake between the computers. you can shove anything into anything depending on how big your bottle of aspirin is....let us know how it goes. Regards, James 90sEraWhips 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Savage Posted March 28, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 28, 2014 Security I already bypassed with a resistor, the resistor in my key died years ago. Just splice a resistor into the wires the same ohm as the one in the key and boom security fully fixed. Security isn't an issue, also we can measure the pass through hole from the donor car then remove the weather gasket remove the wires from the 95 remove the gasket, lap out the hole, use high temp resistant silica put in the donor gasket. Boom fixed. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pshojo Posted March 28, 2014 Report Share Posted March 28, 2014 I've used Milzy for for information on what to do on my swap, paid home for computer reprogram, and for some parts I couldn't find or didn't have time. Big and expensive stuff I got local. He's done this type of work , smaller stuff for other people too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Savage Posted March 28, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 28, 2014 I know, I'm waiting for him to call me sometime here soon, I had some questions for him. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nas Escobar Posted March 29, 2014 Report Share Posted March 29, 2014 Security I already bypassed with a resistor, the resistor in my key died years ago. Just splice a resistor into the wires the same ohm as the one in the key and boom security fully fixed. Security isn't an issue, also we can measure the pass through hole from the donor car then remove the weather gasket remove the wires from the 95 remove the gasket, lap out the hole, use high temp resistant silica put in the donor gasket. Boom fixed. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk They're not talking about the VATS key, they're talking about Passkey 3 or whatever number it was on when the 3900 came out. The newer cars required the BCM to communicate with the PCM/ECU in order to have all systems go. If you take out that link between the PCM and the BCM then the car will be disabled. The thing with the newer systems is that the VIN gets communicated between each system, and if there's no match or if there's an issue then the security is triggered. Everything nowadays is controlled by it. Speedo, odometer, fuel pump, etc. and one small hiccup, the whole car is stranded. You may have to have the BCM and the PCM and bridge that to make it work with your 95's electronics. 90sEraWhips 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Night Fury Posted March 29, 2014 Report Share Posted March 29, 2014 If you take out that link between the PCM and the BCM then the car will be disabled. The thing with the newer systems is that the VIN gets communicated between each system, and if there's no match or if there's an issue then the security is triggered. Everything nowadays is controlled by it. Speedo, odometer, fuel pump, etc. and one small hiccup, the whole car is stranded. HVAC module, radio, DIC, airbag equipment, RKE, etc etc etc 90sEraWhips 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Savage Posted March 29, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 29, 2014 That's way to much just to start an engine, I mean wow. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Imp558 Posted March 29, 2014 Report Share Posted March 29, 2014 They're not talking about the VATS key, they're talking about Passkey 3 or whatever number it was on when the 3900 came out. The newer cars required the BCM to communicate with the PCM/ECU in order to have all systems go. If you take out that link between the PCM and the BCM then the car will be disabled. The thing with the newer systems is that the VIN gets communicated between each system, and if there's no match or if there's an issue then the security is triggered. Everything nowadays is controlled by it. Speedo, odometer, fuel pump, etc. and one small hiccup, the whole car is stranded. You may have to have the BCM and the PCM and bridge that to make it work with your 95's electronics. It's even worse, some of the newer E and P series PCMs can be programmed with HPTuners or EFI Live but even with PASSKEY disabled they won't initiate until they get a signal via data from the BCM that tells the PCM to start, and the BCM won't send it until it sees the ignition switch cycle properly. I had that issue with my buddies L32 a couple years ago and we got so sick of it's erratic behavior we ran it with an L67 7977 PCM. I had a lot of time into that bastard! In the end I repinned the PCM plugs on an F-Body L36 harness and added the tranny, , MAP and Boost solenoid so it would fit the car the way I wanted it too. 90sEraWhips 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Savage Posted March 29, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 29, 2014 Wow that's ridiculous and to much because they're trying to detour car thieves, but they're making it easier. Car theives with android could just hook up their phone to the OBD port or something and just force the start. Even easier if it has a remote start feature lol. Making car theives get smarter. Too many holes in that, but for an everyday use that would be way to complicated. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Imp558 Posted March 29, 2014 Report Share Posted March 29, 2014 No, it just plain sucks ass, and the damn thing won't start until you do a re-linking ceremony with a scan tool and the sacrifice of a chicken several hundred times and then it will forget it's linked later on and you go through all of it again. No android is going to hack it, no nothing even the 3rd party softwares and interfaces that are supposed to eliminate it can't. Easiest way to move a car with that system once it's been cobbled is with a towtruck. Mind you, not all the PCMs require the start signal and they fire right up once PASSKEY is disabled, but it's a roll of the dice as to which PCMs from that era are going to suck. All the PCMs that the trucks and GTOs use are cool, but they're hit or miss in other applications. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Savage Posted March 29, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 29, 2014 Sounds like the 3900 conversion would be easier if you just special order a custom one online. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Imp558 Posted March 29, 2014 Report Share Posted March 29, 2014 I honestly don't know what you'd use for a PCM, wiring harnesses are not a problem, there are companies that can rewire anything to make them run independant of the car but I don't think any of the aftermarket ECMs would be able to do the tranny and the cam stuff. If the factory PCM was able to be programmed it'd be fine, there's a company in Washington that can do a lot of them without fail, Trifecta performance, he may be able to do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Savage Posted March 29, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 29, 2014 Milzy Moto says he can do the swap for $5000 so it is possible to make it work and rite. Can't afford $5000 so IDE do it myself. He said for that swap you have to change over most every part controlled by the PCM over. He said virtually you have to make it think it's an 06. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 90sEraWhips 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Imp558 Posted March 29, 2014 Report Share Posted March 29, 2014 unless he's supplying an aftermarket PCM that's pretty expensive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Imp558 Posted March 29, 2014 Report Share Posted March 29, 2014 I guess I don't fully understand why the 3900 is sought after for this application, it's a cool engine but according to Wiki it makes the same HP as the L67, but the LZ9 makes 40 Lb-Ft less torque. The LZ9 has a more useable power range than the L67 which is cool, but that's got to be largely due to the variable cams and with an aftermarket PCM they may not work. I guess what I see is big bucks, lower power, less aftermarket support so not as much hope of building it further later. It appears the added money spent could go into a nice L67 build and net considerably more power in the end. Don't get me wrong, we all have our things and I'm not knocking this but I don't see the advantage of this swap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nitehawkjcb Posted March 29, 2014 Report Share Posted March 29, 2014 I'll say this - a turbo 3900 would be a beast. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nas Escobar Posted March 29, 2014 Report Share Posted March 29, 2014 I guess I don't fully understand why the 3900 is sought after for this application, it's a cool engine but according to Wiki it makes the same HP as the L67, but the LZ9 makes 40 Lb-Ft less torque. The LZ9 has a more useable power range than the L67 which is cool, but that's got to be largely due to the variable cams and with an aftermarket PCM they may not work. I guess what I see is big bucks, lower power, less aftermarket support so not as much hope of building it further later. It appears the added money spent could go into a nice L67 build and net considerably more power in the end. Don't get me wrong, we all have our things and I'm not knocking this but I don't see the advantage of this swap. Well it depends on who you ask. The OP thought at first that the 3900 is a 3400 and 3800 engine amalgamated together. That is not the case. That is nonsense. The 3800 didn't spawn anything after Series 3 and didn't have a variant since GM stopped producing the 3.3 in the early 90's. Me personally? I would hesitate on a 3500, but I wouldn't mind a L67 in my 94, but that's because I would rather have a supercharged car than an updated 3400. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Imp558 Posted March 29, 2014 Report Share Posted March 29, 2014 Well it depends on who you ask. The OP thought at first that the 3900 is a 3400 and 3800 engine amalgamated together. That is not the case. That is nonsense. The 3800 didn't spawn anything after Series 3 and didn't have a variant since GM stopped producing the 3.3 in the early 90's. Me personally? I would hesitate on a 3500, but I wouldn't mind a L67 in my 94, but that's because I would rather have a supercharged car than an updated 3400. The point that I was trying to make is that the ends don't appear to justify the means. Once the 3900 is in and running it's all oldschool if you want to mod anything since there's no aftermarket. These just seem like an aweful lot of money and balls for the end result. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Savage Posted March 29, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 29, 2014 Lol yes it would, shouldn't be that hard to turbo. 60*v6s have so much engine clearance I meant the air box systems in most of them take up like 10% of the engine bay remove all of that for the turbo. So plenty of room to play. Also I don't like Superchargers, too inefficient, I don't like the idea of a bunch of moving parts that could break and fall into the engine and bust up everything. That's just me. A turbo to me is safer and more efficient for everyday applications. But yes it isn't a combination of the 2. But to me it seems as if they put the best of both worlds. I will agree as of yet there aren't many upgrades for the 3900 yet, but it gives you something to look forward too! Me, I like to work all the parts myself, to me removing cubic inches here and there and smoothing up metals and fixing each individual part to work at 100% that's what I love to do. Also I enjoy old school. My first car was a 69 Chevelle that we were restoring, but it had an accident we were running it one day with the big block in it and we hit the gas too hard on take off and it flipped. Whole top half ruined and the block cracked and the transmission busted when we flipped it back over because it fell out and hit hard. That's where too many mods and jet fuel from the air base will get ya. We used to race it at Memphis Moto sports park. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Imp558 Posted March 29, 2014 Report Share Posted March 29, 2014 Superchargers are at full boost with 1 revolution, they don't need to spool up,they make power NOW. Supercharger parts that are in the airstream would be way too big to "break and fall into the engine and bust up everything" Turbos spin at high RPM and are far more likely to drop oil pressure or some damn thing and end up as schapnel, and yes they are in the airstream too. Jet Fuel is something like Kerosene, aviation gasoline is pretty mean shit though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Savage Posted March 29, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 29, 2014 Supercharger vs Turbo can be argued forever lol not even gonna touch that one, but for my tastes I prefer a turbo. Also you can't fit a supercharger in a 90s model Monte Carlo without and engine swap from what I've heard. If there's a 3100-3400 supercharger please give me a link IDE love to read about it, tried to find it but never could. Yeah it was you could hear the big block a mile away lol every time we cranked it someone called the police since we lived in town. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Imp558 Posted March 29, 2014 Report Share Posted March 29, 2014 This thread took a wrong turn, it was about putting a 3900 in, not putting a blower on a 3100, that's not a huge option true. But in the grand scheme of this thread I was merely pointing out that the 3900, while it would be novel, and would be cool, is also not exactly practical. A boosted 3400 might be a more favorable engine for you. The car you were talking about was likely running airport avaition gas, it's over 100 octane, I'd love to have a barrel of that. Jet fuel would be aweful, you would have very different memories of it were it truly jet fuel. I believe it happened, don't get me wrong but you were misinformed, cars can't run it, they just stall. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Savage Posted March 29, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 29, 2014 We might have just called it Jet Fuel, but we did buy it at the Naval Air Base, it was very expressive I remember that much lol. It was rediculous. But back to the 3900. To much to do for it and if anyone has a nice guide/instructional for it feel free to post it, even though it might not get done on my car others might be interested Also boosted 3100/3400 would be interesting as well. If you know of a blower if they exsist for them that would be wonderful. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Imp558 Posted March 29, 2014 Report Share Posted March 29, 2014 By "Boosted" I was more referring to a turbo setup which is not only practical but your preference. I'd like to see one with a twin turbo, a smaller one to spool up quick and deliver boost early, and a bigger one to spool and boost once the little one can't keep up. I'm not into turbo's or 3100/3400 stuff so I'm not sure what aftermarket cams and such are available. There are some belt driven centrifugal blowers that plumb like a turbo, my buddy buys them for his Dodges and likes them a lot but I've never seen one used in a 3100/3400 application. Here's some: http://www.custom-car.us/superchargers/centrifugal.aspx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rich_e777 Posted March 29, 2014 Report Share Posted March 29, 2014 (edited) No, it just plain sucks ass, and the damn thing won't start until you do a re-linking ceremony with a scan tool and the sacrifice of a chicken several hundred times and then it will forget it's linked later on and you go through all of it again. Also PITA will not be happy you are sacrificing chickens, get ready for the liberal hippie lawsuits. For the electronic end of everything you could possibly run tunerpro through a laptop OBD cable. It has all kinds of raw data that could tell you what things are doing what. Some Say.... Its RobertSaars native language. And you might want to check out Miko`s orange beast he has been building for a few years to get an idea how big of a project you are talking about. Edited March 29, 2014 by rich_e777 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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