jw16 Posted March 24, 2014 Report Share Posted March 24, 2014 (edited) Hi I'm James and I'm new to the w body forums, and this is my first gm i have worked on and unfortunately a pain to work on literally. But i got this car from my aunt for $200 bucks as my grandma had originally had it and rarely drove it and they got it when she passed... well they drove it with out doing any repairs as it had 76000 miles, well months later the timing belt broke and they paid 1500 to replace it. It was fine for a week or so they said and he drove it on the highway and it just died, he had it towed to the shop that originally did the belt and they said it was the timing chain in the intermediate shaft? I really don't buy it and couldn't stand the car to be junked so i had it towed to my place and sure even figured out that the crank sensor magneto swole up like a balloon and broke the case (made it a pita to get out!!) So i replaced that and the car seemed to crank faster and much better but wouldn't start, i could keep cranking and put my pedal to the floor. But all the car did was backfire through the intake... - I have fuel pressure (but gas in it may be old, have 1/2 tank and put all but 1/2 gallon in my other car and it seemed shitty in it so gas couldve been old) -Injectors work (they spray the plugs) -spark plugs and wires are acceptable but two got cuts in the rubber on bank two and are electrical taped -Fuel pump works but i don't hear it, but injectors wasted my whole half gallon of gas! -the car has 78000 miles so i don't know what else could be keeping it from running I suspect that the map sensor may be bad because i do see a lot of dirt and oil in where the hoses connect to the body and intake plenum. I hope someone can shed light on this frustrating problem... the cars sat for 6 months now, i don't want to have to sell it for $1000 on craigslist!! Its sentimental value is so great but Ive lost motivation, really my 40 year old original parts charger runs even now, 75 and its original thermostat even and everything else but intake! Not dawging on Pontiac, my mom had a Ventura that would dust my charger, but point is Pontiac was shit in early 90s (well most car manufactures then with the cheap plastics and paints now mostly from greater, cheaper import export trading) Sorry for going off topic, but I'm really just looking for any input, thanks Edited March 24, 2014 by jw16 Pictures Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Night Fury Posted March 24, 2014 Report Share Posted March 24, 2014 Welcome to the club!! We'd love to see pics for the fun of it. You need to further check for the essentials. What fuel pressure are you getting at key-on at the fuel rail? Do you have spark? You'll definitely need to replace those wires sooner rather than later, but that's probably not the issue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redgrandprix Posted March 24, 2014 Report Share Posted March 24, 2014 i'm assuming its a dohc, that in mind if the timing belt broke then there is possibility of bent valves and f'd pistons and possibly heads. for 1500 dollars i hope the timing belt and any damage caused by the failure were fixed. for a cylinder to ignite you need air, compression, spark, and fuel. you have fuel, you have spark, im assuming you have air. that leaves compression which is a big deal when valves were possibly bent in the past. if its backfiring throught the intake, maybe your catalytic converted is clogged.i want to say there would be bluish rings around the piping before wherever the clog is if there is a clog. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Night Fury Posted March 24, 2014 Report Share Posted March 24, 2014 He said they had it running after the timing belt fix, I'm assuming it was running properly............ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jw16 Posted March 24, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 24, 2014 UMMMM lets see i dont have a pressure gauge but the purge valve shoots to the hood after ive tried cranking it and i see the injectors firing (when i have plenum off) And i have spark from coils to spark plag wires, i shocked the crap out of myself, my crappy v8 it hurt near as bad! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jw16 Posted March 24, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 24, 2014 Passed emissions not long ago with flying colors and the 3.4 motor is a non interference motor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jw16 Posted March 24, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 24, 2014 yeah it ran fine and then shitty all of the sudden, timings correct, belt hasnt slipped and is tight, i know i have no intake vacuum it feels like when i crank, i know i have bottom end compression because after cranks sensor replacement i felt the difference immensly in the cranking! Ive cranked the car so many times now, autozone hates me (not really i pay them so damn much!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redgrandprix Posted March 24, 2014 Report Share Posted March 24, 2014 does it crank at an even speed or does the speed flucuate? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jw16 Posted March 24, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 24, 2014 even speed until i drain my battery, it cranked with no compression to the moror before i did the crank sensor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redgrandprix Posted March 24, 2014 Report Share Posted March 24, 2014 well im out of ideas atm ill let lQW1Nr's take a stab at it, maybe... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jw16 Posted March 24, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 24, 2014 Thanks i appreciate it!, why when i hit the gas pedal to the floor would i get the car to backfire flames through the intake though (also how i know im getting spark and fuel, its wierd though) thats why map sensor fits if the car wont level out atmospheric pressure to complete the combustion proccess in the correct place? Im just fishing right now but idk what else to do Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redgrandprix Posted March 24, 2014 Report Share Posted March 24, 2014 (edited) i was taught that pressing the pedal all the way to the floor is a way to cut fuel ie. if your performing a compression test and don't want the engine to fire but that may not be true for all vehicles, spewing air and such out the intake makes me think a clogged exhaust or maybe bad timing but maybe the icm went bonkers and is sending sparks to the wrong place at the wrong time Edited March 24, 2014 by redgrandprix Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
l67ss Posted March 24, 2014 Report Share Posted March 24, 2014 Ive heard of the dummy cam chain screwing up...sounds like you have a timing issue Thanks i appreciate it!, why when i hit the gas pedal to the floor would i get the car to backfire flames through the intake though (also how i know im getting spark and fuel, its wierd though) thats why map sensor fits if the car wont level out atmospheric pressure to complete the combustion proccess in the correct place? Im just fishing right now but idk what else to do Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redgrandprix Posted March 24, 2014 Report Share Posted March 24, 2014 /\ would make sense since if timing is off and an intake valve is open during a compression stroke the piston would force the air/fuel mix back out the intake and would probably be ignited on the way out by the spark plug. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jw16 Posted March 24, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 24, 2014 ive heard that before, i hope not, i was quoted 1500 to fix it, but didn't trust the shop, after all they didn't catch the crank sensor im going to try fresh gas Wednesday since i have no money and only get fumes from the purge valve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jw16 Posted March 24, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 24, 2014 ive thought that endless times, just was hoping it was some stupid electronic part that fried! God i wish it was an ecu right now haha! Thats why i love my charger, i could completely rebuild it in two days, but it takes month to diagnose this car because of untrustworthy mechanics, my aunt paid 1500 for a timing belt, while they were in there im surprised the didnt know something was up, wouldve saved me $1500..... might look like im selling it tomorrow to a guy in bailey if this is the case, i need tires for my gas guzzling DD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
l67ss Posted March 24, 2014 Report Share Posted March 24, 2014 Seems like for $1500 you coulda got a whole engine ive thought that endless times, just was hoping it was some stupid electronic part that fried! God i wish it was an ecu right now haha!Thats why i love my charger, i could completely rebuild it in two days, but it takes month to diagnose this car because of untrustworthy mechanics, my aunt paid 1500 for a timing belt, while they were in there im surprised the didnt know something was up, wouldve saved me $1500..... might look like im selling it tomorrow to a guy in bailey if this is the case, i need tires for my gas guzzling DD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jw16 Posted March 24, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 24, 2014 true but this car has only 78000 miles! i can believe that chain jumped before 100k! just from sitting... my charger is 38 and STILL on ORIGINAL chain, seal, pump, heads, valves, you name it and car runs better than newer cars WTF! Any one have a 3.4 motor to sell? shit i may even take a 3.1 at this point!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
94 olds vert Posted March 24, 2014 Report Share Posted March 24, 2014 Welcome to the forum! That is the most well equipped Richard Petty car I have ever seen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White93z34 Posted March 24, 2014 Report Share Posted March 24, 2014 Personally I'd be suspicious of the chain jumping time or the chain tensioner failing. I'd be looking to verify timing, Pull the plenum and find cyl 1 should be passenger side rear on that engine. get a long screwdriver and verify TDC by aligning the mark on the crank pulley/ballancer to the mark on the timing cover. Also feel for any play in the crank that could indicate excessive chain play. While you are there I'd pull the valve covers and verify that the cam flats on each bank are lined up turn the engine till the front cam flats by the cam cogs lay flat, they should do so in unison. at the same time the cam flats on the rear of the engine should be the same at this time, but 180* off from the front. I could also believe fuel injectors might be causing some of your problem, I had it where I'd get great pressure at the rail but no injector pulse. One bad injector caused all that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heartbeat1991 Posted March 24, 2014 Report Share Posted March 24, 2014 $1500 for a timing belt job is a bit much, especially considering the covers weren't put back on it. It sounds to me like a timing problem. Pull off the valve cover. There is a spot on each camshaft just behind the belt that is make to fit a timing tool. They should be matched to each other. I'll see if I can dig up a pic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psych0matt Posted March 24, 2014 Report Share Posted March 24, 2014 if you have the stock timing marks on the stock engine, I'd take off the belt and time it yourself that way first. I did that twice on my cutlass and it worked great. Now, if you don't have proper timing marks or don't know how to line things up, may not be a good idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White93z34 Posted March 24, 2014 Report Share Posted March 24, 2014 Stock timing (paint on cam cogs) are a terrible way to judge anything. If the job was done properly they will be in no way near what the factory might have been. You'd just be chasing your tail. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heartbeat1991 Posted March 24, 2014 Report Share Posted March 24, 2014 /\ That's why I said take off the valve covers. I had a crate LQ1 that I assumed the timing marks were right, they weren't. It ran like poo. Once I took off the valve covers and timed it to the clamping journals, all was well again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Night Fury Posted March 24, 2014 Report Share Posted March 24, 2014 Sorry to hear you're having so many issues, please don't give up! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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