art webb Posted March 19, 2014 Report Share Posted March 19, 2014 I have one of these, and as much as I like Luminas, the damned AIR system makes working on it such a bastard even for simple tasks like a tuneup I have seriously considered getting rid of the car on several occassions I'd like to get rid of this junk, as I'm not in Cali, but not sure how you would go about it or if it would screw up the motor has anyone done this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
art webb Posted March 19, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 19, 2014 no one at all? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
virtuetovice Posted March 19, 2014 Report Share Posted March 19, 2014 Never dealed with a Cali car myself so I'm not familiar with what exactly an AIR system is. I'm almost certain it's similar to an EGR. I've disabled a few EGR's and I'm guessing the AIR system is pretty much the same. It's a system ADDED ON, more or less after the engine was developed, in order to REDUCE the engines emissions. I can't imagine it being that much different from an EGR system. Even if it is, it's probably similar enough that if removed, the only thing it WOULD effect is the emissions of the vehicle. Removal would also result in a slight increase in power. EGR systems end up choking motors so I don't see much being lost besides a marginal increase in carbon deposits... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobertISaar Posted March 19, 2014 Report Share Posted March 19, 2014 AIR = a small electric air pump that injects air directly into the exhaust manifolds near the exhaust ports or directly to the cat. significantly shortens the amount of time it takes for the cat to become active. about the only things removing it would do is a slight increase in underhood space, a longer time after startup before the cat is doing anything useful and an angry PCM. if you live in a state/county that does any kind of emissions testing and an AIR pump is supposed to be present but isn't, expect failure, especially if they do a visual test. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
art webb Posted March 19, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 19, 2014 (edited) Thanks Robert, one correction though, it's not a slight increase, it's huge, the check valves are right in the way of a lot of tasks that are already not easy on a Lumina, hanging off the sides of the cylinder banks as they do Spark plugs are almost impossible without removing the alternator and alternator bracket, for example now I just gotta figure out how to block off the holes in the exhuast manifolds, a difficult task in itself, at least on the rear bank AIR was only on california Luminas, and only on 2001s, no one here would even know the difference:lol: Edited March 19, 2014 by art webb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobertISaar Posted March 19, 2014 Report Share Posted March 19, 2014 i have to remove the alt to do rear plugs, even without AIR.... shortish, thickish forearm problems? even then, i still struggle getting my arm back there. there are steel pipe plugs that fit the threads used for the AIR ports, but i don't know what they are off-hand. i'm almost certain my mother's 2000 3100 GP had an AIR system, but it has been since 2008 since i've last seen it. IF your VIN is checked during an emissions inspection(or underhood emissions sticker), it may come up as being a cali-emissions vehicle and a visual inspection may be made of it. if that isn't checked, and your VIN isn't checked, you could probably grab a 00 or 01 non-AIR lumina PCM(or have yours flashed with a non-AIR calibration) and run it to not have that issue pop up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
l67ss Posted March 19, 2014 Report Share Posted March 19, 2014 I have a spare 2000 lumi pcm laying around Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
art webb Posted March 20, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 20, 2014 i have to remove the alt to do rear plugs, even without AIR.... shortish, thickish forearm problems? even then, i still struggle getting my arm back there. there are steel pipe plugs that fit the threads used for the AIR ports, but i don't know what they are off-hand. i'm almost certain my mother's 2000 3100 GP had an AIR system, but it has been since 2008 since i've last seen it. IF your VIN is checked during an emissions inspection(or underhood emissions sticker), it may come up as being a cali-emissions vehicle and a visual inspection may be made of it. if that isn't checked, and your VIN isn't checked, you could probably grab a 00 or 01 non-AIR lumina PCM(or have yours flashed with a non-AIR calibration) and run it to not have that issue pop up. You have to remove the alternator even with the engine rocked forward? I rock the motor pretty aggressively, it's still not easy, but I can get the plugs with the alternator mounted if the wires don't stick too badly (on a non AIR equiped car) it does involve laying on the motor though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
art webb Posted March 20, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 20, 2014 I have a spare 2000 lumi pcm laying around thanks, not sure that'd work with the pass key system though? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobertISaar Posted March 20, 2014 Report Share Posted March 20, 2014 You have to remove the alternator even with the engine rocked forward? I rock the motor pretty aggressively, it's still not easy, but I can get the plugs with the alternator mounted if the wires don't stick too badly (on a non AIR equiped car)it does involve laying on the motor though yes. engine forward + alternator removal is a requirement for me. i used to be able to do it just from rocking the engine, but i've got a popeye forearm going on. laying/sitting on the intake and core support is normal procedure for me as well. thanks, not sure that'd work with the pass key system though? it would work just fine. the 1.5 gen cars all used passkey II, which sends a 50Hz signal to the PCM if it detects a good key in use. there is no password or VIN specific information transmitted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
l67ss Posted March 20, 2014 Report Share Posted March 20, 2014 Listen to this guy, he knows his @#$%. Surprised i didnt drove him batty witj all my question yes. engine forward + alternator removal is a requirement for me. i used to be able to do it just from rocking the engine, but i've got a popeye forearm going on. laying/sitting on the intake and core support is normal procedure for me as well. it would work just fine. the 1.5 gen cars all used passkey II, which sends a 50Hz signal to the PCM if it detects a good key in use. there is no password or VIN specific information transmitted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobertISaar Posted March 21, 2014 Report Share Posted March 21, 2014 you cannot drive insane that which already is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
art webb Posted March 21, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 21, 2014 you would think, having been a fleet mechanic's assistant for a Taxi company, i would know this duh I always thought there were different resistances or some such, as after a PCM install, we always had to get a flash to get the car to start I have popeye arms too, but I guess not as much so as you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
l67ss Posted March 21, 2014 Report Share Posted March 21, 2014 I used the pcm in my monte when i 4t65 swapped , fired right up you would think, having been a fleet mechanic's assistant for a Taxi company, i would know thisduh I always thought there were different resistances or some such, as after a PCM install, we always had to get a flash to get the car to start I have popeye arms too, but I guess not as much so as you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DefEddie Posted March 21, 2014 Report Share Posted March 21, 2014 Lol,i've been deleting vats out of pcm's for several years and have a file of various info on them and still can't keep em all straight. ESPECIALLY the V6 os. Robert knows these inside and out,if he says it'll fire up and it doesn't I would do no start diag before I questioned the info lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
l67ss Posted March 21, 2014 Report Share Posted March 21, 2014 Sooo...want the pcm? $20+shipping Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
art webb Posted March 22, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 22, 2014 I'm still thinking on weather or not to remove the AIR system much as I hate it, I prefer keeping vehicles stock Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy K Posted March 25, 2014 Report Share Posted March 25, 2014 This would still be a stock configuration... just a different one! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
art webb Posted March 26, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 26, 2014 that is true, but not stock for this car still, a good pcm for $20 is tempting Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
l67ss Posted March 26, 2014 Report Share Posted March 26, 2014 Hang around me very much and youll end up with a very confused car I'm still thinking on weather or not to remove the AIR systemmuch as I hate it, I prefer keeping vehicles stock Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
art webb Posted March 26, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 26, 2014 hahaha I imagine you're right there Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
l67ss Posted March 26, 2014 Report Share Posted March 26, 2014 Check out my car in the garage if you dare...tje last guy who was gonna keep his ride stock that looked has been pming me for custom how to info hahaha I imagine you're right there Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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