Brown oil colored transmission fluid

[Nas Escobar]

All right, so I had my trans on my 94 Cutlass Supreme checked out today and I finally figured out the rough shifting issue, but now I have another problem. The fluid on the trans dipstick is brown, I mean it looks a faint pink on the dipstick, but when I wipe it, it's brown. I figure I should change it, and I plan on doing so this week or next week, BUT my question is this... Does the brown trans fluid mean more than "it's dirty"? Should I be concerned about it or shop around for a trans rebuild?

 

Also, when I drain the fluid out, do I change the trans pan gasket? and what is the best ATF fluid? It seems that Dexron III (what this car calls for supposedly) is out of production since GM patented Dexron VI and I can only get Dex/Merc fluid. I personally don't trust this, even though I have used this in my top pump with success.

 

Anyways, what are my options here? Do I swap to Dexron VI or get the Dex/Merc mix?

 

All help is appreciated.

[l67ss]

Yeah id say its time for a filter change. Ive had bad luck with the factory "reusable" pan gaskets so id use the one that comes with the filter. Dexron and mercon are the same thing so use that. Good luck

[rich_e777]

IIRC for a pan drop of the trans you need 6 quarts of ATF. Also might go ahead and replace the pan gaskets as well. Older transmission fluid turns brown and the interval for medium to light operation is about every 70,000-100,000 miles, heavy driving like stop and go traffic in the city or driving through lots of hills then its every 15,000mi. So changing trans fluid can often be overlooked. As for the type I got what said GM on the front, cannot recall which kind it was.

[Nas Escobar]

All right, cool... now is there any special procedure to this, or just drop the pan, let it ooze out, change the filter and refill?

 

Also, what's a good brand of ATF fluid?

 

Rich - did you get yours from the dealer? How long ago?

[l67ss]

Its best to do with tranny a lil warm

[rich_e777]

Since there is no drain plug you should first loosen all the bolts and then on one end your choice, loosen those bolts further so the pan is at an angle allowing the fluid to pour out of the top. Be ready with something to catch the spillover. DO NOT TRY TO REMOVE ALL THE BOLTS AT THE SAME TIME!!!! The pan is literally full of ATF and I`d warm the engine up a bit first so it might be hot. I got the filter and fluid from a local Autozone. I think I have another trans filter sitting in the closet but it might be for a C4 vette. Did my trans fluid change years ago and its still red and brand new looking. No idea of the brand but its all close to the same.

[GnatGoSplat]

Brown doesn't mean it's dirty so much as it means it's old and been getting hot. The heat breaks down the red dye over time. These transaxles run pretty hot, so finding fluid in a brown state if it hasn't been changed for some time isn't unusual.

 

Be sure to wear something you don't mind getting greasy, and a shower cap wouldn't hurt either. I always manage to get some on my clothes and hair when I do this job. It's pretty messy.

Using some kind of pump or siphon to suction some out the dipstick tube might reduce the mess a bit when you drop the pan.

 

Because these transaxles run so hot, I used to change the fluid every 10-15k. Now, my daily drivers both leak enough fluid out the worn side pan gaskets that I just top them off every few months and the fluid stays red because it's constantly replenished.

[Nas Escobar]

Brown doesn't mean it's dirty so much as it means it's old and been getting hot. The heat breaks down the red dye over time. These transaxles run pretty hot, so finding fluid in a brown state if it hasn't been changed for some time isn't unusual.

 

Be sure to wear something you don't mind getting greasy, and a shower cap wouldn't hurt either. I always manage to get some on my clothes and hair when I do this job. It's pretty messy.

Using some kind of pump or siphon to suction some out the dipstick tube might reduce the mess a bit when you drop the pan.

 

Because these transaxles run so hot, I used to change the fluid every 10-15k. Now, my daily drivers both leak enough fluid out the worn side pan gaskets that I just top them off every few months and the fluid stays red because it's constantly replenished.

 

Gnat, I'm used to working on my car, so this isn't much of a big deal. It's my first time touching a trans though because I was always told that a trans flush may mess up the transmission. In this case, I really don't have a choice, so I gotta wing it.

 

Anyways, is there a chance of failure if I use Dexron VI in a Dexron III car? I only get one chance to get it right, so I don't wanna mess it up.

[White93z34]

If a fluid change breaks anything, you're transmission didn't have much longer anyhow.

[RobertISaar]

a flush certainly can mess up a trans..... fluid replacement via pan drop? assuming the correct amount and type of fluid is used, if it fails soon after, it didn't have long for this world with the old fluid either.

 

i've used dex6, i like it.

[GnatGoSplat]

I've heard the same stories, that a fluid change and/or flush could grenade a transmission. In fact, that did happen when we changed the fluid on my friend's old Mazda 626 which had BLACK fluid. It was obviously on its last legs, and somehow that old, grimy fluid was the only reason it was working at all. It still shifted fine, but ended up throwing its internal parts through the case.

 

Anyway, I've changed brown fluid before with success. I feel like it'll be okay if you take it easy on the transmission for awhile and wait for a few thousand miles before driving it like you stole it.

[Nas Escobar]

a flush certainly can mess up a trans..... fluid replacement via pan drop? assuming the correct amount and type of fluid is used, if it fails soon after, it didn't have long for this world with the old fluid either.

 

i've used dex6, i like it.

 

So my question for you is this... when you replaced the fluid, did you have any issues with the Dex3 that probably stayed in there mixing with the Dex6?

[RobertISaar]

dex6 is 100% mix compatible with dex2 and dex3, you just won't get the full benefits of dex6(since you're not running a full fill of dex6, closer to a 50/50 or 60/40 mix after doing one pan drop).

[Nas Escobar]

dex6 is 100% mix compatible with dex2 and dex3, you just won't get the full benefits of dex6(since you're not running a full fill of dex6, closer to a 50/50 or 60/40 mix after doing one pan drop).

 

So how many pan drops would it take to convert to Dex6? Also, can it be reverted back to Dex3/Mercon mix after doing Dex6?

[RobertISaar]

if you wanted to get 100% of it out, it could be done in one shot.... i'm fairly certain Schurkey has detailed how to before, short story is to drop the cooling return line out of the radiator(or maybe trans end?) and have the trans pump all of the fluid out with the engine running. during this process, you'll be pouring new fluid in while the old is pouring out and monitor the color of the fluid coming out. when it quits changing from old looking dark red/brown fluid to the reddish/pinkish color of new fluid, the engine gets shut down and you finish the fill.

 

the exact order of when to do things, i'm not certain on, but i think i would do a pan drop/filter change, throw in some cheap trans fluid to get something in the pan(or perhaps reuse the old fluid temporarily?), let it mix a bit, then let the trans pump the old stuff out. you'll lose some of the new fluid, of course, since you have to constantly pour new stuff through the dipstick tube to prevent the trans from sucking air, but it shouldn't be that much. what is left after that kind of a fluid change won't be very significant, maybe 5% or less?

[RobertISaar]

and yes, could go back to dex2 or 3 if you wanted afterwards, but i don't think i would even consider it. dex6 is quite an improvement in several areas over dex3.

[virtuetovice]

I'm gonna go ahead and reiterate what everyone else has already said. It will be messy. I came out looking like Freddie Krueger.

 

I also agree on not doing a flush. I did a pan drop/fluid/filter change and went along on my happy little way for a couple thousand miles. Decided to do a flush and it took about 400 miles for the car to decide it no longer liked having gears 2-4.

[redgrandprix]

idk if this will help but when i did a filter change on the tgp i bought the biggest drain pan walmart had and it was big enough in diameter that no matter where atf was leaking as i loosened bolts it caught it but my hands and arms up to my elbows were drenched still

[Schurkey]

1. There is no way in hell I would put EXPENSIVE Dex VI into an old trans of unknown condition. Dex/Merc (Dexron III equivalent) would be my FIRST choice. The last thing this trans needs is thin-viscosity, expensive synthetic trans fluid.

 

2. There is no way in hell I would NOT drain ALL the old fluid. Perform a normal trans service including replacement pan gasket and filter, along with perhaps five quarts of fluid down the dipstick tube. Remove the tube from the trans cooler that conducts fluid back to the transmission. Install a temporary tube into the cooler that directs the cooled fluid into the drain pan. Have a helper start the engine AFTER you've popped the tops on several additional quarts of fluid. Pour fluid into the funnel/dipstick tube until you see bright red fluid exiting the temporary tube at the drain pan. Have helper shut off engine. Re-connect original trans cooler tube. Start engine, verify/correct fluid level. You've now got a fresh filter, fresh pan gasket, and ALL the fluid is fresh.

 

3. Dex/Merc is not a mix of Dexron and Mercon. Dexron and Mercon were trade names, and the only way to put them on a bottle of trans fluid was to pay money to GM (Dexron) or to Ford (Mercon) for the right to use the trademark. Dexron and Mercon were essentially the same fluid, perhaps with minor differences. One fluid could easily meet both specs. Since the full trademark names aren't being used, Dex/Merc fluid doesn't require payment of royalties. It is almost certainly the same as, or better than Dexron III and the equivalent Mercon spec.

Edited March 12, 2014 by Schurkey

[Nas Escobar]

All right, so I guess I will buy the Dex/Merc. Question for you Schurkey, if the trans takes 6 quarts appox. then what would be a safe amount to overfill it when I take off the trans cooler tube?

[Schurkey]

if the trans takes 6 quarts appox. then what would be a safe amount to overfill it when I take off the trans cooler tube?

 

Have a helper start the engine AFTER you've popped the tops on several additional quarts of fluid. Pour fluid into the funnel/dipstick tube until you see bright red fluid exiting the temporary tube at the drain pan. Have helper shut off engine.

Dump in your five or six quarts, start the engine, dump in fluid until it runs bright red out of the temporary tube at the drain pan. Shut off the engine when you see bright red fluid. It takes however many quarts it takes. If it were me, I'd have another five or six quarts ready 'n' waiting. Make sure the drain pan will hold that much fluid.

 

Remember to adjust fluid level as needed once the original cooler tube is re-connected.

[Crazy K]

I like to re-use the original rubber and steel gaskets. I have grabbed spares from the junkyard so i have one ready at hand myself. They are re-useable if in good condition. I discard and replace only if i see tears or other damage. 50% of the used ones I pulled at the pick a part were good enough to re-use, and I was nice enough to chase the gaskets out of the first line of cars destined for the crusher. I coat the gaskets with red grease to aid in them sealing. Pan bolt tightness should be 13 ft-lbs.

 

I also do shift accumulator upgrades anytime I enter a transmission. Typically I have added 2-3 dual springs into the 1-2 accumulator, and then added about 1/8 inch of washers to shim the 2-3's existing springs. About 1 in 10 accumulators I have looked at had broken springs, so inspecting them is not a bad idea. My selection of parts has yielded firmer quicker shifts, but not backbreaking so. see Aweb's write-up for more info on this.

 

Wix filter is my filter of choice. But whatever works works for you.

 

New filter should come with a metal seal for the transmission's fluid input. It does not need to be installed if the current one is fine. As long as the rubber is good and holds the new filter up, you are good to go.

 

I like the gallon jugs of Dex/merc made by Valvoline. they are "dexron VI" compliant in every way except for being slightly thicker viscosity, as I recall. (Saar, didn't you have an oil analysis from BITOG or someplace you once posted on this?)

http://www.valvoline.com/products/consumer-products/automatic-transmission-products/automatic-transmission-fluid/37

 

I also have a siphon kit "oil extractor" that I use to drain transmissions. Here is the same one only not made in 1974 like mine. Metal is great for piping out hot hot fluid! My transmission fluid service is so not messy because of it. or... I can keep it clean with one sheet of cardboard.

http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_390306_390306?cm_mmc=Google-pla-_-Fuel%20Transfer%20%2B%20Lubrication-_-Oil%20Extractors-_-33226&ci_src=17588969&ci_sku=33226&gclid=CLGnqcfAjr0CFYhaMgodSiIA-g

 

Last.... I add an extra magnet to all transmissions that I service. NEODYMIUM rare earth magnets. this would be about the size of a button battery, and in transmissions that I have serviced a second time, the rare earth magnet had as much or more metal on it that the stock magnet I also left in. Super. really!

 

 

Also for flushing, the horizontal (upper) line is the return line to the transmission on all 4 speed transmissions in our cars. that mean pull it off the transmission and stick a hose on the line and into a bucket. Get a long enough clear hose and clamp it to the trans line with a hose clamp and you can watch the fluid while operating the car yourself. I would overfill the trans by maybe 4 quarts after a filter change, run until the fluid runs clear. and top off as needed when done.

Edited March 13, 2014 by Crazy K

[RobertISaar]

http://www.pqiamerica.com/ATFdecember2012/valvolinemaxATF.htm

[Nas Escobar]

So I plan on doing the fluid change next week, when the winter weather is finally gone (or so I'm told). I was wondering if draining the fluid via the radiator hose (the way Schurkey was telling me to do AFTER I opened the pan) then opening the trans pan would constitute as a "flush" instead of a "drain". I only ask to make this easier than looking for a wide bucket to go over the pan. Plus I don't much money to spend on trans fluid with it being $5 a quart and all.

[Schurkey]

I was wondering if draining the fluid via the radiator hose (the way Schurkey was telling me to do AFTER I opened the pan) then opening the trans pan would constitute as a "flush" instead of a "drain". I only ask to make this easier than looking for a wide bucket to go over the pan.

Are you trying to do things in the wrong order? Dump the pan, install fresh filter, reinstall pan, THEN open the trans cooler system as described previously.

 

DO NOT try to change the fluid via the cooler tube, then install a clean filter afterwards.