rich_e777 Posted January 1, 2014 Report Share Posted January 1, 2014 Ok my mom borrowed my cutlass the other day for work and I was working on her focus. When it started up that morning everything was fine, there was a weird slight screech towards the end of the starting process. But now it no start, it no crank. Thought the battery might have some issues and went to jump it, nothing. Full lights and they do not dim. However today I went to start it and as you turn the key right as the starter would usually engaged the lights and locks just went possessed and were flickering as if it were a loose battery connection. I could not get any kind of sound from the starter which makes me think it is something to do with the chip in the key(VATS?) or maybe the starter relay? Its still the original starter for the car and I had plans to replace with a newer one very soon but the battery needed replacement at the time first. Checked the ignition fuses(orange 40A) and they look ok. All connection are tight and corrosion free. So given the symptoms what would you guys look into first? Right now I can only afford a starter from a u pull it lot so is there anything in particular to gauge the state of the starter from the donor car other than mileage and visual wear? and were there some GM starters that were better on certain models of certain years? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
l67ss Posted January 1, 2014 Report Share Posted January 1, 2014 Have you tried jumping the solenoid with a screwdriver? As to jy starter upgrade, try an 01+ 3.4 starter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rich_e777 Posted January 1, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 1, 2014 Damn didn`t even cross my mind, was going to give the thread a few minutes and head back out there. Will have to try that, towing is expensive I hear. If it works could one assume its the starter relay and if not would that indicate a bad solenoid? Just realized other than a previous bad battery this is the first time in almost 8 years this car has refused to start. I think it doesn`t like my mom:lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
l67ss Posted January 1, 2014 Report Share Posted January 1, 2014 Sounds logical to me Damn didn`t even cross my mind, was going to give the thread a few minutes and head back out there. Will have to try that, towing is expensive I hear. If it works could one assume its the starter relay and if not would that indicate a bad solenoid? Just realized other than a previous bad battery this is the first time in almost 8 years this car has refused to start. I think it doesn`t like my mom:lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
l67ss Posted January 1, 2014 Report Share Posted January 1, 2014 Ive also heard that 3.8 starters are a bolt on upgrade Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobertISaar Posted January 1, 2014 Report Share Posted January 1, 2014 with all of the other electronics going nuts when you tried to crank it, i would be looking at the battery cables and connectors, otherwise your ignition switch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rich_e777 Posted January 1, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 1, 2014 Got back to it and was able to jump it from the solenoid. In cannot believe that didn't cross my mind, I did stop drinking beer so that could be it. Determined that the solenoid was getting power, discovered a slightly lose neutral start switch on top of the trans and I will be removing it to test the wires, and found that the positive wire going to the drivers side fuse box was loose. After the initial jump and then the second one I drove it about 15 miles to a spot I can work on it on jack stands. Starts right up under its own power now completely normal as if it hadn`t been stranded in the airport parking lot for the last few nights. So its either the ignition switch in the column or the neutral park relay switch. But the starter is still old so might as well replace them all. Dual exhaust and suspension mods put off yet once again. Well the only other two things that can possibly go wrong is a blown transmission or a faulty window component, everything else minus suspension/ rack and pinion have been replaced. Sorry for the unnecessary thread mods, situation could have been dealt with in the whatever thread just as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
l67ss Posted January 1, 2014 Report Share Posted January 1, 2014 Its all good Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rich_e777 Posted January 12, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 12, 2014 Seems like the mounting bolts were loose on the neutral start switch only finger tightened. Tightened them up and it started up fine in PARK, put it thru the gears to see if it shifted good, no problems. Then turned it off and tried a restart in Park, have power, heard fuel pump but no crank. Attempted a restart cycling thru the gears and found it would start on neutral. Seeing how it did start up with no issues (the one once in park and following in neutral) is it safe to assume its the neutral park switch? and if so is a new replacement required or could I get away with a junkyard one? And is there a way to test a switch removed from a donor? Still not past suspecting the ignition switch itself as I noticed the key getting a bit hot sometimes. Just haven`t made it that far yet. This has been the first good day I have had a chance to get at it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rich_e777 Posted January 12, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 12, 2014 Also curious to know if it is possible to replace with one from a later 90s model. The switch seemed to change between '94 and '97. Not a direct bolt on but some sort of modification, or might be a bolt on part,I do not know at this point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schurkey Posted January 12, 2014 Report Share Posted January 12, 2014 (edited) 1. CHECK THE BATTERY VOLTAGE. The battery should have 12.6--12.7 volts when there's no load on it. 12.5 volts is 1/4 discharged. 12.2 volts is HALF-DEAD. Many folks can't comprehend that a "12-volt" battery that has only 12 volts is only 1/4 charged. Charge battery as needed. If possible, check battery voltage again, with the engine cranking--better have at least 9.5 volts, and more is better. With a side-post battery, you might as well just remove the battery cables and clean the terminals. There's essentially no way to test the connection, so you have to pull it apart for a visual verification. Remember, the lead pad on the battery should be BRIGHT SILVER colored; fuzzy green or black MUST BE CLEANED. The connector pad inside the plastic of the battery cable end MUST BE CLEAN AND BRIGHT; fuzzy green or black MUST BE CLEANED. Beware black battery connections, they're non-conductive but they don't look "corroded". 2. Check voltage at the "S" terminal of the starter solenoid. If you have 10+ volts at the (probably purple or pink, 12-guage) wire attached to the S terminal when the key is turned to "crank", but the starter won't engage or spin--the solenoid is probably defective. If you don't have 10+ volts at the S terminal, work your way up the chain back to the ignition switch; and the power source for the ignition switch. 3. Check voltage drop between battery positive post, and starter solenoid (the heavy, main power cable at the starter solenoid); and between the starter case or good engine ground and the negative terminal of the battery: Edited January 12, 2014 by Schurkey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rich_e777 Posted January 13, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 13, 2014 Battery is good, brand new even. I ended up just taking the switch off and cleaning it up a little bit, reinstalled after adjusting it correctly and this has seemed to clear up the issue for now. Thread locked the bolts I found loose and got everything else back together, and have started it several times since. The loose bolts must have thrown the switch off enough to not allow for start in PARK. Bad connections and battery charge are always the first things I go for, too many times these have been the problem. Never have dealt with either a failing ignition switch vs a bad neutral start switch, but I think I know the difference now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1988PhantomFE3 Posted January 13, 2014 Report Share Posted January 13, 2014 You're lucky that it's fixed, mine thinks it's being stolen and won't start for up to an hour at times. Something to do with that SECURITY light flashing...but I have no idea where to even start to address that one. The Shop Manual & online search has got me nowhere.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
l67ss Posted January 13, 2014 Report Share Posted January 13, 2014 Mebbe try another ignition cylinder key and passkey module setup ? You're lucky that it's fixed, mine thinks it's being stolen and won't start for up to an hour at times. Something to do with that SECURITY light flashing...but I have no idea where to even start to address that one. The Shop Manual & online search has got me nowhere.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.