3400 vs. 3800 burnouts

[Senor PuffPuff]

Hey, just a quick question - anyone else noticed that the 3400 cars seem to have more power than the 3800 cars? I was just thinking about my 3400 impala today, and remembered how easy it was to spin the wheels on it whereas my 3800 Impala basically doesn't get any wheelspin at all.

 

Of course, the 3400 had stock tires and my 3800 has Pirelli P4's, but doesn't the 3800 produce more torque?

[RobertISaar]

engine torque X final gear ratio X current trans gear's ratio X torque converter multiplication factor - trans efficiency losses = effective torque at the wheels.

 

3400 = 205 X 2.86 X 2.92 X ???? = 1,712lb-ft in 1st gear, without torque converter multiplication accounted for.

3800 = 230 X 3.05 X 2.92 X ???? = 2,048lb-ft in 1st gear, ........

 

now, the 3400 has a fairly high stalling converter(and thus, higher multiplication ratio), especially compared to the 3800 converters. this may make up for it, though the 3800 cars may have more torque management and are artificially weak because of it. would have to remove that from being possible too.

 

in any case, wheel/tire and brake disk weight are all relevant as well, and of course, tire traction coefficient.

[RobertISaar]

also, burnouts with a 4T6x based transmission = differential death. if you have a limited slip unit, different story, but even the HD diffs aren't that great.

[l67ss]

Listen to this guy, reverend saar. Seriously, he knows his @#$&

also, burnouts with a 4T6x based transmission = differential death. if you have a limited slip unit, different story, but even the HD diffs aren't that great.

[RobertISaar]

http://www.thrashercharged.com/tech_htm/differential.shtm

 

this actually outlines the process of turning a 4T60/65 into a core charge.

[alec_b]

So.... you're saying the 1st->2nd gear 50 foot one wheel wonder I did with the Impala the other day was BAD for it? With only 157k miles on it and an already slipping 1-2 up shift and 2-1 downshift bang?

 

Whoops.

[will_s95]

So.... you're saying the 1st->2nd gear 50 foot one wheel wonder I did with the Impala the other day was BAD for it? With only 157k miles on it and an already slipping 1-2 up shift and 2-1 downshift bang?

 

Whoops.

 

[digitallyphoenix]

the DOHC's never came close stock for stock against the SC gtp. I had a very heavily modded DOHC in my Z34. with lots of porting, gear swap, exhaust and countless hours of tuning I managed a 14.81 1/4 mile and prob could have squeezed a 14.7 out of her. in comparison after swapping to a L36 with just headers, HV3, and tuning i put down a 14.9 with a full trunk of tools, sub, and spare tire. the extra weight was at least 100 lbs or more. which means i could have shaved another 10th off that time and tie my DOHC's best run.

 

the average stock DOHC runs 15.5-15.7 the average GTP runs 14.7-15.0. when you compare the Z34's they run nearly identical 1/4 mile time from the 96 w/ DOHC to 98 with the L36. the DOHC had a higher trap but lower 60'.

 

I agree that the 60* engines do sound better. My DOHC sounded heavenly. but my 3800 doesn't sound bad at all either.

 

reliability... the 3800 is rock solid even lightly modded and is easy to work on. the DOHC is known to be a pain and the 3400 just like the 3100 have the leaky lower intake that can be costly to repair.

 

Bottom line is yes the 3800 is old tech so are the LS1,2,3! But it works.

 

 

Back on topic. like said gearing makes a big diff. I know cause the gear swap i did on my DOHC did wonders for it. I could basically match a GTP off the line after that swap. Once in my powerband it would start pulling away. I have never really spent much time looking at tq managment on 3400's but i know both the l36 and lq1/DOHC have a lot to restrict the power. it is possible with the weaker engine they didnt put as much tq mgt on cause they didnt make the power.

[RobertISaar]

i still find it hilarious that GM strapped a blower on a 205HP engine, fed the engine ~7PSI or so, and only made an extra 35HP.

[Galaxie500XL]

Actually, the design is far older. It was introduced in 1962, sold to Jeep in 1967, then GM bought the production equipment BACK from Jeep after the Arab Oil embargo, and GM began putting them in cars as the "231 V-6", in '75 or '76.

I personally think the 3800 is over rated. It has been proven for many years but the design is da!mn near 20 years old. They couldn’t get any more power out of it so they strapped on a blower, Witch put the GTP up there but don’t forget that the last generation GTP with the 3.4DOHC was almost a fast. I would rather stick my 3400 and SC it. Plus you CANT Beat the sound of the 3400 :thumbs:

 

That’s just my opinion though

[BS009]

i still find it hilarious that GM strapped a blower on a 205HP engine, fed the engine ~7PSI or so, and only made an extra 35HP.

 

Don't forget, they reduced the compression ratio too so they could use a little more boost.

[RobertISaar]

dropping nearly 1 point of compression to try and make it back via higher manifold pressure is old-school thinking. it may work, but it is an unnecessary compromise.

[19Cutlass94]

I got more than 35hp from the cam I just put in my car

[White93z34]

Both good engines, both have their own set of problems and advantages. People have gotten good power from both of them. But are either of them serious platforms for performance, no.

 

Yeah the 3800 is old, but the 60*v6 ain't no spring chicken either.

[RoyalRegal]

I would also think that the weight difference between a 60 degree and a 90 degree is a factor in terms of traction.

 

More weight at the front wheels= more traction= less tire spin.

 

I do love the sound of a 3.4 (I had a U body van with one), but nothing beats the sound of my 3.8 catLESS exhaust!

Edited December 30, 2013 by RoyalRegal

[Imp558]

Anybody else find it fishy that 3 different members posted the same exact post in this thread and they all have a link to some sort of reviews on their post down low?

[Imp558]

Well, what do you know! Here's that same exact post on another board, 3rd one down!

 

http://www.grandamgt.com/forum/archive/index.php/t-8841.html

[intern8tion9l]

What the?

[Imp558]

Cut some of the words from other posts they've made and plug them in to Yahoo, I found where they took other posts from.

All of them have exactly 10 posts too.

[Nas Escobar]

Damn, what's up with the spammers?

 

Anyways, is getting a limited slip on a 4T60 even worth it? I mean how do you even do a burnout on a FWD car? I know the same principal (foot on brake and pedal) aren't true as for RWD

[Garrett Powered]

I tested a LSD on a 4t60 it got good posi grip. I am about to get it torn down for a quick inspection since I have it out of the car.

 

I am getting trans lines rebuilt and everything this time. and make sure the locker isn't all torn up or something before I throw even more power at the poor thing.

 

they don't necessarily like all the torque, the 4t60 has a smaller diff than a 4t65-e, but you can do a number 11 and I have drawn those on the ground no problem in my black tgp.

[RobertISaar]

a posi isn't just for burnouts...

 

time spent spinning your tires is time spent not moving forward.

[19Cutlass94]

 

Haha

 

 

Sent from my iPhone

[Galaxie500XL]

I used to use that knowledge to great success against Mustangs when I had my Galaxie...the Mustangs were faster IF you knew how to launch them. However, that poor rear axle setup that Ford used for decades meant while the Mustangs were smoking off the line, I was outrunning them.

 

Usually, at the next light, they'd light them up even worse...which meant I outran them just that much more from light to light.

a posi isn't just for burnouts...

 

time spent spinning your tires is time spent not moving forward.

[Nas Escobar]

a posi isn't just for burnouts...

 

time spent spinning your tires is time spent not moving forward.

 

I know. I want to convert my Camaro to posi. I noticed if I sit the car and burn out I end up doing one wheel wonders, but that also means I may be wasting time when I floor it on the interstate or just wanna quick launch.