Did a pan transmission pan drop, now it wont shift into O.D

[2000Lumina]

First off thanks to everyone who contributes on this forum, I have learned alot on here, I havent had the need to post so I haven't registered until now. I have a 2000 Lumina I recently picked up cheap with 226K. After fixing the major stuff I decided to do some up keep on it, after checking the tranny fluid and seeing its pitch black I decided to change the fluid/filter. Read some post on this site and most said it takes 6-7 quarts. After dropping the pan and changing the filter I put 7 quarts in and still said it was a little low. I drove it about 3 miles to warm it up, no over drive, checked it again and it needed another 1.5 quarts to reach full, went back out and still it wont shift into OD, I tried shifting it manually without success. Any ideas?

[l67ss]

Wut fluid you use?

First off thanks to everyone who contributes on this forum, I have learned alot on here, I havent had the need to post so I haven't registered until now. I have a 2000 Lumina I recently picked up cheap with 226K. After fixing the major stuff I decided to do some up keep on it, after checking the tranny fluid and seeing its pitch black I decided to change the fluid/filter. Read some post on this site and most said it takes 6-7 quarts. After dropping the pan and changing the filter I put 7 quarts in and still said it was a little low. I drove it about 3 miles to warm it up, no over drive, checked it again and it needed another 1.5 quarts to reach full, went back out and still it wont shift into OD, I tried shifting it manually without success. Any ideas?

[2000Lumina]

I used Walmart brand General Tech High milege universal that is used in vehicles requiring Dec 3

[tornado_735]

You may have shot yourself in the foot, but there may also be a way out of it.

 

I know it sucks because trans fluid is expensive and it goes everywhere, but you should drop the pan again, and refill with Dex-6. The black stuff in your old fluid was...for lack of a better term, friction material. Dex-6 has friction material already added. It might work, and it might not. But it's worth a shot.

[The Guz]

You may have knocked something loose while you were replacing the filter. I would stick with dex 3 in that high mileage car.

[Schurkey]

You may have shot yourself in the foot, but there may also be a way out of it.

 

I know it sucks because trans fluid is expensive and it goes everywhere, but you should drop the pan again, and refill with Dex-6. The black stuff in your old fluid was...for lack of a better term, friction material. Dex-6 has friction material already added. It might work, and it might not. But it's worth a shot.

Totally pointless.

 

ALL trans fluid has friction modifiers in it, which is entirely different from the friction material of the clutches.

 

The problem here is not the fluid, per se. It is more likely a result of the workmanship of the fluid change. Knocked off a wire, broke a solenoid, etc.

 

Of course, it could be entirely random that the OD died at the same time as the fluid change.

Edited October 20, 2013 by Schurkey

[l67ss]

There is also the old skool type f fluid trick

[LumiLTZ]

Sounds like a coincidence/random to me.... being you have a 2000 model, it's got the 4T65e, and I bet the 4th gear hub splines have stripped out, especially at that mileage.

 

http://tripleedgeperformance.com/No-4th-Gear.html

[RobertISaar]

if i had lost 4th after changing out some nasty, nasty fluid, i would assume that the only thing keeping the 4th clutch working correctly was all of the clutch material in the fluid.

 

if it were the solenoid(broken or just disconnected), i would think another gear would be lost as well. with the 4T65:

 

A+B = 1

B = 2

none = 3

A = 4

 

if 4th gear were lost due to a solenoid not operating, it would have to be solenoid A. if so, 1st would be gone as well.

[2000Lumina]

Well thanks for the replys, I was going to try the Dex 6 but is that useless now? I don't remember seeing any wires, I just dropped the pan and pulled the filter off. I didn't even swap the adapter piece it comes with after reading on this forum you can do more harm then good. This wasn't my first tranny fluid filter swap so I knew where to be careful. Any other ideas maybe an additive? Sucks cause now it shifts smooth and goes into D and R easily

[l67ss]

Pour some type f into it. Type f has friction material in it. Old skool trick.

[rich_e777]

Unless you have some background in transmission repair I believe you are at the point of taking it in to a shop. You risk further damage or making a smaller problem into something a lot more costly. Unless you want to track down a 4t65 rebuild manual out there somewhere and attempt it yourself(Im sure something like this exists out there) If you had damaged teeth or a failure similar to that you`d see metal sitting in the pan.

[rich_e777]

Type "F" fluid is for older FORD cars and is a lot stickier and reduces heat dissipation a lot. Do NOT put this into newer transmissions, its the equivalent of fixing RROD Xbox360s by wrapping them in a towel or blanket. Yeah you might get it to work for a little while but in a week or so you`d right back in the same boat. But when your trans fails again you would know its burned up for sure.

[tornado_735]

I'm curious as to whether the shift linkage could be off...indicator says it's in OD, but it's really in 3...

[Galaxie500XL]

A scantool will answer that question rather quickly...it could definitely be an issue.

I'm curious as to whether the shift linkage could be off...indicator says it's in OD, but it's really in 3...

[Schurkey]

Pour some type f into it. Type f has friction material in it. Old skool trick.

 

Totally pointless.

 

ALL trans fluid has friction modifiers in it, which is entirely different from the friction material of the clutches.

 

The problem here is not the fluid, per se. It is more likely a result of the workmanship of the fluid change. Knocked off a wire, broke a solenoid, etc.

 

Of course, it could be entirely random that the OD died at the same time as the fluid change.

Hello?

[l67ss]

Have you tried it personally? I have. On a 2002 gp gt. Worked for over a year . Plenty of time to save up for a new tranny.

Type "F" fluid is for older FORD cars and is a lot stickier and reduces heat dissipation a lot. Do NOT put this into newer transmissions, its the equivalent of fixing RROD Xbox360s by wrapping them in a towel or blanket. Yeah you might get it to work for a little while but in a week or so you`d right back in the same boat. But when your trans fails again you would know its burned up for sure.

[2000Lumina]

Everything was fine before, is there anything I could put in like trans X that would help? I don't drive it alot so I can go without OD but of course id rather have it. I would rather not have OD then to put something in that would burn it up. I have a Mustang that should be back on the road in the next few months

[l67ss]

Back when ford and gm were coming up with their first mass roduced automatics, they chose opposite routes for the use of fluid. Gm put the anti-chatter(grippy shit) in the clutches and the fluid cooled and lubricated the tranny. Ford on the other hand, chose to put the antichatter(again grippy shit) into the fluid itself. In other words, by using type f the friction MATERIAL NOT MODIFIER in the fluid replaces what was lost in the clutches. In other, other words, read the post before being a smartass.

Hello?

[l67ss]

To answer your question, the majority of the fluid marketed to stop tranny slippage(example: b&m shift improver fluid) use type f fluid as the active ingredient

Everything was fine before, is there anything I could put in like trans X that would help? I don't drive it alot so I can go without OD but of course id rather have it. I would rather not have OD then to put something in that would burn it up. I have a Mustang that should be back on the road in the next few months

[RobertISaar]

mechanic in a bottle = even if it works, don't expect it to last.

[2000Lumina]

Should of left it alone lol, too late now. If I put ATF F in should I do half and half or full

[2000Lumina]

I drive the car like 20 miles a week if it can last 3 months im good, but I can go without the OD just drive slower on HWY. I would much rather have it

[l67ss]

If you do it id just do 1 or 2 quarts

Should of left it alone lol, too late now. If I put ATF F in should I do half and half or full

[Schurkey]

Back when ford and gm were coming up with their first mass roduced automatics, they chose opposite routes for the use of fluid. Gm put the anti-chatter(grippy shit) in the clutches and the fluid cooled and lubricated the tranny. Ford on the other hand, chose to put the antichatter(again grippy shit) into the fluid itself. In other words, by using type f the friction MATERIAL NOT MODIFIER in the fluid replaces what was lost in the clutches. In other, other words, read the post before being a smartass.

No, not exactly. You have a few of the basic concepts correct.

 

Ford and GM both used Type A trans fluid in the early automatics. Ford eventually changed friction material in the clutches from paper/resin to asbestos. The asbestos clutches had lower friction coefficient (slippery), and so they needed a "special" fluid with a different friction modifier package to allow the slippery clutches to "grab". GM continued to use the higher-friction clutch material, and therefore continued to use ever-newer versions of the basic "Type A" trans fluid. Ford, of course, found out that using asbestos was a dead-end road, and was forced to go back to the newer-version of Type A, what GM had trademarked as "Dexron". Of course, Ford didn't want to pay royalties to GM for use of the Dexron name, so the Dexron-equivalent in Ford Talk became "Mercon". To this day, you can buy fluid that has "Dex-Merc" on the label, signifying that it's a suitable replacement for Dexron III and whatever Mercon version is approximately equal to Dex III.

 

At no point is there EVER friction MATERIAL in new fluid. Burnt friction material in the fluid is a sign of trans failure. Friction MODIFIERS, on the other hand are plentiful, and different among the various types and perhaps even brands of auto trans fluids.

 

B&M used to advertise that Type F fluid didn't stand up to heat as well as the version of Dexron in use at that time (Probably Dex II); and it didn't lubricate as well as that version of Dexron. Type F has nothing going for it except that it can provide slightly quicker clutch engagement than Dexron based on it's different friction-modifier package. At any rate, it's not going to do a damned thing for a transmission that's LOST A GEAR--unless by adding some Type F, you accidentally fix an "under-filled" transmission.

 

Losing a gear has nothing to do with the selection of fluid used when doing a filter-and-fill job, especially when the fluid selected is the very stuff the manufacturer recommends in the first place. Type F is not going to fix this.

 

Don't piss me off, or I'll tell you about the Sperm Oil in Type A fluid. You don't want me to go there. It's a whale of a story.

Edited October 23, 2013 by Schurkey