Philbo Baggins Posted October 11, 2013 Report Share Posted October 11, 2013 Does anyone know what kind of parts compatibility there is between the Series 1 3800 (TPI) motors and the Series II (SFI) motors? It's really easy to find stuff online for Series II but not as easy to find Series I. But if i could figure out what's interchangeable that would make it a lot easier (intake manifolds, heads, cams, rockers, any of that internal or bolt on stuff). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zipper Posted October 14, 2013 Report Share Posted October 14, 2013 Heads are different between the two (which makes the exhaust manifolds different also), but that's all that I know about Series I. Sorry that I can't help anymore then that. I've only played with Series II's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philbo Baggins Posted October 14, 2013 Author Report Share Posted October 14, 2013 i guess it wouldn't be too hard to find Series 1 heads in a junk yard and get them machine ported and pay for a custom grind cam to fit a series 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turbocharged400sbc Posted October 14, 2013 Report Share Posted October 14, 2013 if you have a 93-95 SI with the 5/16ths thread rocker pedestals you could make the SII rockers fit with alot of custom work to the stands....but no there isnt a whole lot of stuff that will swap over besides valve covers, WP, and cam/crank sensors. im still planning on finishing my SI talldeck/SII symetrical port hybrid someday but just the custom camshaft with SI dimensions but SII lobe phasing is projected to be about 800+$ and thats not to even mention the custom lower intake due to the talldeck SI shortblock.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BS009 Posted October 15, 2013 Report Share Posted October 15, 2013 Series 1 and 2 blocks are extremely different; nothing is really going to bolt on. There is not much aftermarket for the series one because nobody really wants to build them up that much when it's so easy to grab a series 2 and build one of those. It looks like you'll be on your own as far as cams go. I thought CompCams used to make cams for all 231 Buick v6's up to 96 but I'm not seeing any on their website right now. However: Yella Terra makes 1.8 ratio rockers for the series 1 Series one L67 and L27 parts are interchangeable if you wanted to build your l27 for boost. You would basically need the entire L67 rotating assembly though. If you plan on doing porting I would check out your rear exhaust manifold and see what the downpipe hole looks like on the manifold. I noticed mine was cut very poorly from the factory and needed some serious porting. There's also the option of just dropping in a series 1 L67 out of a Bonneville.... IMHO I think it's a waste of time and money to do serious modding to the series one because there's not a lot of aftermarket and so it costs a lot of money to do much of anything with it. If you spent the same amount of money on modding a series 2 L67 you would end up with a much faster car. I think I have only heard of one person who was really serious about modding a series one. Here is his list of mods on both of his cars on his website: http://www.zillamotorsports.com/mods.html IIRC his 93 was only running 13's with all his mods and his other car was running 14's. That 93 even has an intercooler on it...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philbo Baggins Posted October 15, 2013 Author Report Share Posted October 15, 2013 Well the car has been in the family a while and it was really reliable for my dad before being equally reliable for me. He keeps saying he wants the car to live forever so my plan is to take the motor apart and rebuild it when the day comes the motor finally kicks the bucket. It's a 91 when over 200k miles and it sees a ton of miles each week as a DD. About 60% of those in the city. Feels like it still has a lot of life left in it, but better to gather as much info is possible before i need it than to wait til afterward. I'm not to worried about timeslips, and i have another car to gimme those. But i feel like it would be a fun project and a good engineering exercise for me if i could rebuild this old Series 1 into something stronger than factory. I have a really good custom piping shop nearby that has reasonable prices too, and they're one of the almost nonexistent shops around with an inhouse mandrel bender so i'm thinking about having them throw me together some custom pipes as well. If i do go supercharged they also make custom intercooler piping. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turbocharged400sbc Posted October 15, 2013 Report Share Posted October 15, 2013 you dont have to use the SI L67 rotating assembly.....you can do a "topswap" like the SII and have the high compression NA longblock (heads to pan) to ofset the smaller m62 blower Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BS009 Posted October 15, 2013 Report Share Posted October 15, 2013 (edited) The smaller blower won't need to be offset by having higher compression. The M62 is already close to the m90's output because it has such a small pulley from the factory. 94-95 S1 L67's had a 2.85" pulley stock, 93 and previous had a 2.55" pulley. S2 m90's have a 3.8" pulley. You WILL prematurely blow your engine by just top-swapping an L27. http://www.pontiacbonnevilleclub.com/forum/performance/topic194.html Edited October 15, 2013 by BS009 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philbo Baggins Posted October 15, 2013 Author Report Share Posted October 15, 2013 If i dive into the engine i'm probably replacing everything. Rods, rings, pistons bearing etc. So if i go blower the bottom end won't be an issue. Bigger injectors are also a given in my book. friend of mine has a blower he says he pulled off a Park Ave a few years back and it's just sitting around waiting for a meaning in life again Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BS009 Posted October 15, 2013 Report Share Posted October 15, 2013 Yeah I'd say go for it if that's what you want to do. Personally I would love to see how it all works out since it's something I thought about doing for a while too. I ended up saving my money for a long time though and picked up my newer regal instead though since the 94 was my DD. This engine should be pretty quick in the regal in comparison to a bonneville. You'll love the M62 whine too! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philbo Baggins Posted October 15, 2013 Author Report Share Posted October 15, 2013 Yeah i looked up the curb weight for a 91 Regal as being 3324. That's pretty athletic for a sedan lol. My Trans Am is 3495 in comparison. Side note, my regal is one of those without a rear sway bar from factory. Addco apparently sells one to install. Anyone got any advice as far as installing it? I haven't yet looked to see if there is a place to put mounts for the end links Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turbocharged400sbc Posted October 15, 2013 Report Share Posted October 15, 2013 that is hardly a nail in the coffin of a SI NA/SC build. the oil systems and bearings are nearly identical between the two engines,except the SI motors had the .1 smaller cam bearing dia and ran hair larger bearing clearances with 10w30 and a weaker pressure spring. predominately the noisy motors have bad rear balance shaft bearings that sends debris through the motor taking out the bearings (rear ball bearing is not directly lubed like the SII) i plan on building my 95 l67 with SII L67 pistons and rebushed chrysler 440 rods at some point for a nice longrod build....but for now ive got a t70 hanging off a 90 LN3 with 88 intake flipped 180* while its controlled by an obd2 pcm with far better knock detection/control i still think it'll handle boost just fine....at least as much as an L36.... guys are snapping the brittle PM rods in the L26 because gm necked it down to much but compared side by side SI/SII NA and SC rods and pistons are pretty damn comparable... aside from the longer package height from the much better geometry of the talldeck 3800. eventually ill get around to finishing the SI/SII hybrid but for now ive already built the headers so i might as well stick with the SI heads for the time being. this thing is built from junk lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philbo Baggins Posted October 15, 2013 Author Report Share Posted October 15, 2013 Junkyard like a boss lol. That's another thing i was wondering about, the pistons. If you could use aftermarket S2 pistons in an S1 car on an NA build and up the compression. What issues would be encountered for the rods. If i had the cash i'd even investigate into having the block machined to make a 4.1 stroker and a custom crank built but i don't see that in the budget. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turbocharged400sbc Posted October 16, 2013 Report Share Posted October 16, 2013 by using the SII L36/26 pistons in the talldeck SI block lets you use a chrysler 440 rod with an extra 15thou outta the hole. so with a rebush on the pin end you could put the compression height wherever ya wanted. even by mixing MLS gaskets you could take a stock/aftermarket piston motor up towards 10to1 with a real tight quench build. the best part of this long rod/talldeck build is the indycar like 1.98to1 rod/stroke ratio that would result in greatly improved cylinder filling just from the geometry change....honestly the rod/stroke ratio in the short deck SII is quite horrible and results is excessive side loading at higher rpm's to make better use of that excelent bottom end it'd be a shame to use SI heads when the SII symmetrical port heads are vastly superior...but then there's the custom cam/intake/headers ... someday ill finish my SI/SII hybrid....someday... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BS009 Posted October 16, 2013 Report Share Posted October 16, 2013 That looks like a sick build! What were you planning on putting that engine in? I see you found a way to flip the intake around for RWD. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turbocharged400sbc Posted October 16, 2013 Report Share Posted October 16, 2013 Its in an 84 toyota cressida WaGN Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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